What can I do? Scared of father.

[ninalee]

What is the name of your state? WI

The court awarded me custody of my daughter long ago, with the father having visitation rights upon reasonable times and reasonable notice. Up until now we have never had any custody issues, he chooses to spend very little time with her as it is.

In the past when life has gotten rough for him, he has been known to not take things very well. He has threatened to kill both me and his ex wife in the past when we really upset him, and when he got fired from a job that he was a supervisor at he constantly talked about bombing the place or beating up those who fired him. To this day he still blames me and his old job and his ex wife for ruining his life...though he treated us all like crap. He never acts out on his threats, I've never known him to actually be violent, but his mind works in strange ways that when things are going bad for him he blames the world and gets scary mad. It seems like someday he's really just going to snap.

Today we had a court hearing for him being contempt of cs, which I filed the motion for. It went horrendously as he not only is clearly in contempt, but he was arrogant, rude, and yelling profanity at the judge. We are now scheduled to go before another judge to get a ruling, and he may serve time if he doesn't pay up. I'm aware he is having a rough time in life, but it really is of his own accord. His wife who supported him financially left him 2 years ago, he hates his alcoholic girlfriend which he says he is forced to live with because he can't afford a place of his own, or he stays with his mother whom he also openly hates. He told all of this to the judge/commissioner today. He is really really upset right now and feels that I am out to get him for seeking past and current support. He insists that he can't afford to live and pay the ordered amount, however according to the judge today his earnings at his job qualify him to actually pay $6 more than the $250 a month he is ordered. So his hopes for a modification were pretty much sunk, as he was planning on filing one after today.

Anyway, he was so mad, the last time that I saw him this upset and I had anything to do with it he threatened my life. He doesn't spend more than a couple hours every couple months with my daughter, and generally we contact him because she loves him. I don't want my daughter to know what's going on obviously...but I don't trust him to have her unsupervised now. I know it's not my right to go against the order, but all of my instincts tell me he may be on the verge of snapping. He might spend time in jail for his contempt, and he is rock bottom in his life right now but taking no responsibility for it...he is pretty much psychotic right now. Today at court I didn't have to say anything, I just sat there shocked at how dumb he was being in court while he did all the work of showing them what I have to deal with.

I honestly fear for my daughters safety with him right now, he is irrational and has tendencies to see things from a very bent perspective. I know that without any actual threats or violents or reports, I likely have no right to deny him visits with her. But, he never spends much time with her, so if he starts wanting to spend time with her now, am I going to get in trouble if I deny him visitation, at least unsupervised?

I know I've rambled here, it's been a tough day and I'm kind of a mess. I know that he is her Dad and has his rights, but I honestly don't feel safe letting her go anywhere alone with him while he is being so angry. What if my fears are right?

Would I get in really big trouble if I don't let him take her? Is there anything I can do?

 

[BL]

The court awarded me custody of my daughter long ago, with the father having visitation rights upon reasonable times and reasonable notice.

If he ask and you deny , it won't look well .

Of course his infrequent visits don't either , and you said yourself you usually have to call him .

So wait to call , or if he calls , he'll probably be calmed down .

What you feel has no bearing .

 

[ninalee]

If he ask and you deny , it won't look well .

Of course his infrequent visits don't either , and you said yourself you usually have to call him .

So wait to call , or if he calls , he'll probably be calmed down .

What you feel has no bearing .

I know what I feel has no bearing. What kind of trouble can I really get into if I deny him taking her though?

I know that until he actually does something horrible I can't do anything, and I also know that instincts count for crap. But when it come to turning over our daughter to him when he may be unstable, I may find it worth the risk to get into trouble. I can't help but be afraid that right now he is just resenting her existence and the financial burden she is to him. I know it sounds dramatic, but if I'm right, how can anyone actually expect me to let him take her?

If time passes by and he seems to chill out I'm sure I'll chill out too, but he is really out of sorts and irrational right now, so it's hard to see out of the moment. It just reminds me of the past, where he threatened my life for days and I had to change my house locks. Of course in the end, it was just threats...

 

[BL]

I know what I feel has no bearing. What kind of trouble can I really get into if I deny him taking her though?

I know that until he actually does something horrible I can't do anything, and I also know that instincts count for crap. But when it come to turning over our daughter to him when he may be unstable, I may find it worth the risk to get into trouble. I can't help but be afraid that right now he is just resenting her existence and the financial burden she is to him. I know it sounds dramatic, but if I'm right, how can anyone actually expect me to let him take her?

If time passes by and he seems to chill out I'm sure I'll chill out too, but he is really out of sorts and irrational right now, so it's hard to see out of the moment. It just reminds me of the past, where he threatened my life for days and I had to change my house locks. Of course in the end, it was just threats...

It appears this is nothing new .

He must give you reasonable notice for reasonable visits .

The threats were against you , not the child .

Why didn't you do anything about the threats in the past ?

You could face contempt , but the order is worded loosely .

Would you rather tee him off again by not allowing visits as per court order ?

 

[ninalee]

Sounds a lot like a coworker of my husband's that walked off the job. It's got to be scary feeling like he's ready to snap. I agree with the previous poster about not offering your daughter up to him any more, wait until he calls and hopefully he'll be in a better frame of mind then. When he's threatened your life, did you file for a RO?

Oh yeah, I agree with that, we will not be calling him over any time soon. I'm worried that he'll call any day now to arrange time with her though, and I'm really uncomfortable with him just taking off with her in his current state of mind.

I should have filed for the RO, but I was young (this is when we dated 10 years ago, I was 19 then and life was all dumb and dramatic). His mother talked me out of filing the RO reassuring me that he wouldn't actually kill me, he was just trying to scare me to get his way. My Mom actually didn't want to spend money on the RO either, so she told me to just give him time and see what happened. We weren't together for very long after that event. Eventually when he met his wife (now ex) I thought perhaps it was only a one time thing, but later I found out from her that he made threats like this to her often, threatening not only to kill her but her pets as well if she left him. Well, she left, and is still alive. She never reported his abuse because she was embarrased. But who does that? Who threatens peoples lives when things go awry? Not just "I could kill him" stuff that a lot of people quip on a whim, but serious "I'll kill you if yada yada" stuff that makes you hole yourself up in fear for few days. His eyes all glaze over and he's just so irrational...I can totally see him snapping, you know? I feel it may be worth the trouble for a while to just say no.

 

[CourtClerk]

Sounds a lot like a coworker of my husband's that walked off the job. It's got to be scary feeling like he's ready to snap. I agree with the previous poster about not offering your daughter up to him any more, wait until he calls and hopefully he'll be in a better frame of mind then. When he's threatened your life, did you file for a RO?

You sure do know an awful lot of people with an awful lot of drama in their lives....

 

[ninalee]

It appears this is nothing new .

He must give you reasonable notice for reasonable visits .

The threats were against you , not the child .

Why didn't you do anything about the threats in the past ?

You could face contempt , but the order is worded loosely .

Would you rather tee him off again by not allowing visits as per court order ?

I could be found in contempt...that's what I was looking for. No, I don't want that. I'm not trying to tee him off further...I just am honestly scared of him taking off with our daughter right now, I don't trust his motives, and if you were actually able to witness the situation you might understand better why I'm hesitant to let him take her anywhere for a while.

I suppose I'll just make excuses if he calls for a while...as he generally doesn't try all that hard to get time with her. If I tell him we already have plans, he shouldn't be a problem about it. That plan makes more sense than denying him a visitation...hopefully in the long run this will all cool down anyway.

Thank you for your answers.

 

[CourtClerk]

I know a lot of people in general, but are you keeping tabs? I wasn't aware I'd shared so much. I live in Vegas, though, and there are a lot of people here with addiction problems.

Keeping tabs? Don't flatter yourself... but everything you post is about you or someone you know who has been in <fill in the blank> situation.

 

[CourtClerk]

You obviously don't read your own posts.... or you're such a narcissist that you don't realize it.

Just like you said... whatever

 

[Just Blue]

meow...hisssssssss

 

[LdiJ]

I could be found in contempt...that's what I was looking for. No, I don't want that. I'm not trying to tee him off further...I just am honestly scared of him taking off with our daughter right now, I don't trust his motives, and if you were actually able to witness the situation you might understand better why I'm hesitant to let him take her anywhere for a while.

I suppose I'll just make excuses if he calls for a while...as he generally doesn't try all that hard to get time with her. If I tell him we already have plans, he shouldn't be a problem about it. That plan makes more sense than denying him a visitation...hopefully in the long run this will all cool down anyway.

Thank you for your answers.

If the same judge that heard the CS case today, would be the judge that heard any contempt case regarding visitation, you might not have much to worry about regarding contempt.

If you have never been to court for contempt, and this would be the first time, then the worst you are looking at is a relatively small fine and maybe nothing more than a slap on the wrist if you explain things properly to the judge.

Personally, in this particularly situation I would put the safety of my child first. Anyone who is so angry that they would behave that way in court, has lost all rationality. He needs some time to calm down before you risk unsupervised visitation.

Not too long ago a man in my state took his child up in a small plane, and deliberately crashed it into his ex mother in law's house, killing himself and the child. No one ever believed that he would EVER hurt the child, including his ex wife and ex mother in law....but he was angry.

 

[wileybunch]

You obviously don't read your own posts.... or you're such a narcissist that you don't realize it.

Just like you said... whatever

This isn't about you (or me), it's about the OP's situation.

In OP's shoes, it's understandable how worried you are and yet not sure what you can do with worry unless he's exhibiting enough strange behavior that's been witnessed by others that a judge might agree puts the child at risk. OTOH, he's been doing this for years and his threats against you were 10 yrs ago so that also shows that he's got a temper, but he isn't crossing lines.

I agree if you think he is that bad that you have to weigh the risk of a contempt charge vs. sending your daughter into an exceptionally bad situation and live w/ the possibility he will file a contempt motion.

 

[ninalee]

If the same judge that heard the CS case today, would be the judge that heard any contempt case regarding visitation, you might not have much to worry about regarding contempt.

If you have never been to court for contempt, and this would be the first time, then the worst you are looking at is a relatively small fine and maybe nothing more than a slap on the wrist if you explain things properly to the judge.

Personally, in this particularly situation I would put the safety of my child first. Anyone who is so angry that they would behave that way in court, has lost all rationality. He needs some time to calm down before you risk unsupervised visitation.

Not too long ago a man in my state took his child up in a small plane, and deliberately crashed it into his ex mother in law's house, killing himself and the child. No one ever believed that he would EVER hurt the child, including his ex wife and ex mother in law....but he was angry.

That is exactly the kind of snap I fear from him...and I don't want my daughter to become part of that statistic. I can't trust him when he's in this state of mind, and I wouldn't be able to live with myself should something terrible happen to her because I handed her over to him despite my gut feeling not to for now. After I thought about it, unless he pushes for a visit (which would immediately set off red flags cuz he never does that anyway) I should be able to excuse our way out of any requests he has to take her for a while. The guy needs therapy...I wish there were a way I could court order it...it would certainly be in his own best interest.

 

[BL]

Anyone who is so angry that they would behave that way in court, has lost all rationality. He needs some time to calm down before you risk unsupervised visitation.

I was going to say , I wonder why the judge didn't hold him in contempt for his behaviors , especially if he was using cuss words at the Judge .

As I said , the Order is worded loosely .

There would have to be repeated denials I'd think for the OP to be found in contempt .

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

OP - did your X threaten anyone when you were in court for his contempt?