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What constitutes a voluntary leave (quitting) vs being laid off/reduction in force?

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tom2018

New member
What is the name of your state? IL

I was told a few months back that my position was being eliminated due to strategy change by leadership. The details are that I was in an "unfunded role" meaning that I was given a different title and responsibilities while my leadership kept me on the company records as my previous position because they couldn't get finance to approve the new position. At the time of that I was notified, my director did verbally offer to explore either a reduction in force or to keep me as my original position (which would have been a big step back for me). I did not take his offer at the time for the RIF, with severance, because I did not have any job offers lined up either internally or externally. Since then, I have found a new external position but here are the details of what I am losing out on because of this...
  • Company is asking for repayment of $2484.74 in Tuition Reimbursements paid to me within the last 12 months
  • Company is not reimbursing an additional $1015.26 in Tuition Reimbursement which I already received approval for, with the course fully completed weeks in advance of my final date of employment
  • I was forced to forfeit the company match to my 401k, a loss of $8275.45, because I was 6 months shy of vesting
I am not looking for severance, but I think on principal I at least shouldn't have to pay back my company for tuition when I had every intention of staying at the company for years more. The official response from the case I opened with HR was the following...

After further research and discussion with your former manager, it has been determined that you are responsible for paying back the funds to {Company}. The vendor relations specialist spoke with your former manager and was advised that the position you held was changed due to business strategy and you wanted to find a role closer to what you had been doing. You ended up finding a role outside of {Company}. Being that you were not part of a RIF or let go, the termination is technically voluntary. This is also how is displays in our system as far as a Termination Reason code.

It looks like they are claiming my position was "changed" but it really was eliminated. If it was classified as a reduction in force, I would not have to repay the Company (this is a very large and well known company in the Payroll/HR outsourcing field). Is this something I should fight more vigorously, or even get a lawyer, or would it be a waste of time?
 
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PayrollHRGuy

Senior Member
Yes we know what company you work for because you posted it in the paragraph pasted in italics.

They are classifying you as a quit because you did in fact quit. In fact you rejected a RIF. You said so right here. "I did not take his offer at the time for the RIF, with severance, because I did not have any job offers lined up either internally or externally. Since then, I have found a new external position but here are the details of what I am losing out on because of this..."
 

Whoops2u

Active Member
If you're trying to be secret about the "very large and well known company", you might remove the name from your italicized quote.

Other than that, you gave a lot of explanation without really saying anything. The bottom line is you refused the RIF offer with severance and, I assume, stayed with the job until you found another one outside the company. Right? I also assume you were aware, with the tuition reimbursement, you would have to pay it back if you left voluntarily within a certain amount of time. Right? If so, I'm not sure of your next course. Unless you can stay in your job or a job with BEQ, you really have no right to any of those things mentioned.

I suppose their could be some issue in regards to the 401(k) if all the explanation you gave rose to the level of trying to get you out without paying you, but you didn't really allege that.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
I may have not followed the jargon....but it reads to me like you were riffed from your existing role which was not funded ...you did not quit. You failed to accept the rif severance package but that's different ....and you failed to accept a new offer of a lesser role ....but your prior role did not end because you quit...it ended .
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
That's right, HRZ, you didn't follow the story correctly. This is a quit. He refused an RIF with severance and is now leaving because he's found another job. Had he accepted the RIF that would not have been a quit.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
When they tell you to not come to work anymore, thst is a termination.

When you still have a job to go to and you tell them you won’t be back, thst is a quit.


Had you stuck around until they terminated you, or accepted the offer previously tendered, you wouldn’t have these issues.
 
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