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What does a Union Rep actually do BEFORE a first contract?

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frustrated_3

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

Is there anywhere I can find info on responsibilities of a union rep prior to the signing of a first contract? I have posted before about being asked to get salary and benefit information for employees. The rep. finally conceded, after being confronted, that it was her job to do so. I am now being asked to get a list of employees so she can get title information. We are a relatively small place so this may not be a big deal, just seems I shouldn't be the one doing it....if they don't have it already. I would think after a year of working with us, they would have employee names. I actually feel like it puts my job in jeopardy.

Is the rep. responsible for writing the contract, after discussing our needs of course? We were given the contract from another unit and told to adjust it to our needs. Unfortunately, the rep refuses to meet with us to discuss the writing of the contract and it doesn't cover all we need it to. She and our previous rep. tried to force us to the negotiating table twice with an incomplete contract. They did JUST hire a lawyer to help with writing the contract which is suspect after all this time.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Frustrated
 


justalayman

Senior Member
ok, it's time you called somebody well above the union rep you are dealing with. I don't know what union you are dealing with but there is almost somebody higher than the person you are dealing with. You have too many questions your rep is either ignoring or can't answer. Neither is a good sign.

as far as you getting a list; Um, the employer has one. Point the union rep at the office door and say; it's in there. If the union rep is afraid to ask the employer for a list of employees and their title, they shouldn't be a rep. This is information the employer now has to openly disclose to the union. It should be a simple matter of rep going to HR (or whomever maintains employee records) and asking; can I get a list of all the bargaining unit members and their titles?

What happens if you forget old Fred that is way back in the back of the building./ Everybody thought he already retired but he hasn't. He just found a good hiding spot. Dang, I guess we didn't schedule his current position in the contract.





btw: you do go to the negotiating table with an incomplete contract. That is the point of negotiating. Why would you set at a table if you had a complete contract?

If you mean something else such as before the members/union had determined their list of demands (I hate that word and is not accurate in the least), then that is something quite different.

negotiating a contract can be a very quick matter or it can take a long time. Given this is your first contract, I suggest not rushing it. When you have reached a point you think you have it, read it again. Then read it again. If it doesn't make sense to you it surely isn't going to make sense to at least some of the other members. If the terms are unclear, it makes it very difficult to enforce. Obviously you don't want to take too long to review everything either lest the employer may grow impatient and become adversarial.
 

frustrated_3

Junior Member
Thanks for your reply.

We've talked directly (on the phone) to the Executive Director of the Union Council and she is uninterested in our concerns. It's very suspect and disconcerting.

I agree that getting a list should be simple for the rep. but she's asking me to do it. I get the feeling she hasn't negotiated a first contract before. Forgetting old Fred in the back is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of!

As far as an incomplete contract, I mean a contract the doesn't reflect what we're asking for. Heck, doesn't even have titles, salaries and benefit info in it because we're still trying to have her request that.

Our previous rep brought a list of 8 bullet points and half a contract to the first negotiation meeting and the other side's lawyer practically laughed us out of the room. I won't do that again. I realize the contract will change since we will negotiate stuff in and out but we should have what we're asking for IN the first proposal.

I definitely don't want to rush it which is exactly what the reps. are trying to do. I'm losing faith that they're on our side. We aren't asking for a whole lot, our employer isn't that adversarial (yet) and this should have been WAY easier than it's been.

Thanks again.

Frustrated


ok, it's time you called somebody well above the union rep you are dealing with. I don't know what union you are dealing with but there is almost somebody higher than the person you are dealing with. You have too many questions your rep is either ignoring or can't answer. Neither is a good sign.

as far as you getting a list; Um, the employer has one. Point the union rep at the office door and say; it's in there. If the union rep is afraid to ask the employer for a list of employees and their title, they shouldn't be a rep. This is information the employer now has to openly disclose to the union. It should be a simple matter of rep going to HR (or whomever maintains employee records) and asking; can I get a list of all the bargaining unit members and their titles?

What happens if you forget old Fred that is way back in the back of the building./ Everybody thought he already retired but he hasn't. He just found a good hiding spot. Dang, I guess we didn't schedule his current position in the contract.





btw: you do go to the negotiating table with an incomplete contract. That is the point of negotiating. Why would you set at a table if you had a complete contract?

If you mean something else such as before the members/union had determined their list of demands (I hate that word and is not accurate in the least), then that is something quite different.

negotiating a contract can be a very quick matter or it can take a long time. Given this is your first contract, I suggest not rushing it. When you have reached a point you think you have it, read it again. Then read it again. If it doesn't make sense to you it surely isn't going to make sense to at least some of the other members. If the terms are unclear, it makes it very difficult to enforce. Obviously you don't want to take too long to review everything either lest the employer may grow impatient and become adversarial.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
as I read your posts, it sounds like in your situation you have a single rep that assists you to negotiate a contract and a few employees act as a bargaining committee for the members. Is that correct? If so, are you an official member of the bargaining committee?

if there is a committee, how many employees are there on the committee.





You mentioned you contact somebody higher in the union and were blown off. Did they give you any insight as to your concerns? Unless they just hung up on yuo, they surely said something.


As far as an incomplete contract, I mean a contract the doesn't reflect what we're asking for. Heck, doesn't even have titles, salaries and benefit info in it because we're still trying to have her request that.
that isn't always an incorrect way to approach things, especially at the beginning of negotiations. Making a list of issues that you are looking to have addressed in the contract is nothing more than giving the employer notice they need to be prepared to discuss those points.


Whether the employer rep laughed you out due to the list or what was in the list is a world of difference.
 

frustrated_3

Junior Member
We have a single union rep. We had a different one initially but we're given another without any reason why. The first one is just gone.

I am an official member of the bargaining committee. There are three of us but will be two soon since one person is quitting.

Not sure what was said to the other member that spoke to the Director but when I spoke to her, she simply listened, gave me some "Uh-huh"s and reminded me that we had to move along with the process. Either she's not getting the complete picture from her employees or she doesn't care. Sometimes it feels like they are "IN" with our employer.

The employer rep and the employer bargaining members were definitely laughing at the way it was presented. If it was the actual items, they would have stayed and discussed them and told us we were nuts for asking. Their lawyer basically told us we weren't prepared and that he wouldn't accept new items into discussion after a first proposal is made (no idea if that's even legal). Basically threatened to yell and scream if we added anything at a later date. That's one of the reasons we feel compelled to put our best effort out at the next meeting.

I basically feel bullied from both sides.

Frustrated



as I read your posts, it sounds like in your situation you have a single rep that assists you to negotiate a contract and a few employees act as a bargaining committee for the members. Is that correct? If so, are you an official member of the bargaining committee?

if there is a committee, how many employees are there on the committee.


You mentioned you contact somebody higher in the union and were blown off. Did they give you any insight as to your concerns? Unless they just hung up on yuo, they surely said something.


that isn't always an incorrect way to approach things, especially at the beginning of negotiations. Making a list of issues that you are looking to have addressed in the contract is nothing more than giving the employer notice they need to be prepared to discuss those points.


Whether the employer rep laughed you out due to the list or what was in the list is a world of difference.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I am an official member of the bargaining committee. There are three of us but will be two soon since one person is quitting.
ok, this actually makes things not quite as bad as I had thought (at least as far as what you have been asked to do) . I should have asked that question long ago.

Given you are on the bargaining committee, it does afford you a lot more leeway in the actions you described (gathering info) It will also protect your job (although there are limits)







Not sure what was said to the other member that spoke to the Director but when I spoke to her, she simply listened, gave me some "Uh-huh"s and reminded me that we had to move along with the process. Either she's not getting the complete picture from her employees or she doesn't care. Sometimes it feels like they are "IN" with our employer.
I would suggest an actual slow as a turtle letter, registered would be good. Explain your newness to the game and tell them you need more guidance than you are receiving. Let them know your rep is either not understanding your personal situation or is failing to provide the assistance you feel is needed to be comfortable doing this.

The employer rep and the employer bargaining members were definitely laughing at the way it was presented. If it was the actual items, they would have stayed and discussed them and told us we were nuts for asking.
well, as I said, not sure where this fell into timing of negotiations but that is actually exactly how a lot of negotiations start. Sometimes such a list is provided prior to a meeting but if not, when else is one supposed to present the issues?

Their lawyer basically told us we weren't prepared and that he wouldn't accept new items into discussion after a first proposal is made (no idea if that's even legal).
Oh, that puts an entirely different spin on things. Had there already been a first proposal? The lawyer has a point. You do not keep bringing in new points. That is what the initial proposal is for. Then you negotiate from that point.


You need to relay that situation to the higher level union person in your letter. Your rep may very well have screwed you or allowed you to get screwed.


I basically feel bullied from both sides.
understandable
 

frustrated_3

Junior Member
Thanks again. Gives me some ideas and some validation.




ok, this actually makes things not quite as bad as I had thought (at least as far as what you have been asked to do) . I should have asked that question long ago.

Given you are on the bargaining committee, it does afford you a lot more leeway in the actions you described (gathering info) It will also protect your job (although there are limits)







I would suggest an actual slow as a turtle letter, registered would be good. Explain your newness to the game and tell them you need more guidance than you are receiving. Let them know your rep is either not understanding your personal situation or is failing to provide the assistance you feel is needed to be comfortable doing this.

well, as I said, not sure where this fell into timing of negotiations but that is actually exactly how a lot of negotiations start. Sometimes such a list is provided prior to a meeting but if not, when else is one supposed to present the issues?

Oh, that puts an entirely different spin on things. Had there already been a first proposal? The lawyer has a point. You do not keep bringing in new points. That is what the initial proposal is for. Then you negotiate from that point.


You need to relay that situation to the higher level union person in your letter. Your rep may very well have screwed you or allowed you to get screwed.


understandable
 

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