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what is first right of refusal in Cal

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socalgrandma

Junior Member
I live in California. We do not understand the law regarding visitation and "first right of refusal". I need some examples of what a parent can and cannot do when exercising this- can anyone help?
What is the name of your state? California :confused:
 


casa

Senior Member
socalgrandma said:
I live in California. We do not understand the law regarding visitation and "first right of refusal". I need some examples of what a parent can and cannot do when exercising this- can anyone help?
What is the name of your state? California :confused:
FROR is used only when it is part of the court order- If it is part of the court order...it means that when one parent does not have the child for X amount of time (anywhere from 4-24 hours depending on what the court order states)- then the other parent has the right to care for them instead of daycare, step-parents, extended family etc.

Example: Mom is at work and the child(ren) are being babysat or in childcare- the father has the right to pick the children up and spend that time with them.

Example: Dad goes out of town for a day- the mother has the right to pick the children up and spend that time with them.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
The theory behind it is that each parent's time with their child is more important than that child's time spent with a third party.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
casa said:
FROR is used only when it is part of the court order- If it is part of the court order...it means that when one parent does not have the child for X amount of time (anywhere from 4-24 hours depending on what the court order states)- then the other parent has the right to care for them instead of daycare, step-parents, extended family etc.

Example: Mom is at work and the child(ren) are being babysat or in childcare- the father has the right to pick the children up and spend that time with them.

Example: Dad goes out of town for a day- the mother has the right to pick the children up and spend that time with them.
It doesn't always include stepparents and extended family.....particularly if the time spent with grandparents is considered to be extended family visitation. I have seen lots of orders that say "other than a member of the household or family", and some that even say "paid child care".
 

casa

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
It doesn't always include stepparents and extended family.....particularly if the time spent with grandparents is considered to be extended family visitation. I have seen lots of orders that say "other than a member of the household or family", and some that even say "paid child care".
I disagree. I have not seen only single incident in CA where the parent did not get FROR over an extended family member or member of the household. People frequently argue over this in CA since so many parents use grandparents & step-parents AS childcare...the focus is on the other parent having that option instead. Grandparent visitation and time is the responsibility of each parent- and step-parent time is even less important.

At least from my experience and in the state of CA.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
casa said:
I disagree. I have not seen only single incident in CA where the parent did not get FROR over an extended family member or member of the household. People frequently argue over this in CA since so many parents use grandparents & step-parents AS childcare...the focus is on the other parent having that option instead. Grandparent visitation and time is the responsibility of each parent- and step-parent time is even less important.

At least from my experience and in the state of CA.
I understand what you are saying, and I do agree. However, lets say that Grandma asks for an overnight visit...and since the kids are spending the night with Grandma, dad and stepmom decide to go out. Is that a right of first refusal case?...or is that extended family visitation?

The only reason why I ask, is that I know of more than one family where the other parent insisted on right of first refusal anytime wasn't going to be with the parent.....which in that case meant every time the child had plans to be with family or even to spend the night/day at a friend's.

So when its not traditional daycare hours or work related child care, how do you determine if its babysitting time, or family/friend time?
 

casa

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
I understand what you are saying, and I do agree. However, lets say that Grandma asks for an overnight visit...and since the kids are spending the night with Grandma, dad and stepmom decide to go out. Is that a right of first refusal case?...or is that extended family visitation?

The only reason why I ask, is that I know of more than one family where the other parent insisted on right of first refusal anytime wasn't going to be with the parent.....which in that case meant every time the child had plans to be with family or even to spend the night/day at a friend's.

So when its not traditional daycare hours or work related child care, how do you determine if its babysitting time, or family/friend time?
CA typically specifies which times are included in FROR. ie; work hours are common, work related travel, military manuevers (a lot of bases in CA) etc. It's typically addressed that 'family visitation &/or vacation' is not a FROR situation.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
casa said:
CA typically specifies which times are included in FROR. ie; work hours are common, work related travel, military manuevers (a lot of bases in CA) etc. It's typically addressed that 'family visitation &/or vacation' is not a FROR situation.
Ok...that makes sense.
 

casa

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
Ok...that makes sense.
That parent you know should file to modify the FROR and explain the modification is necessary since the child is unable to have any time with extended family members during that parents timeshare. That is a good example of how people mis-use FROR. I am NOT an advocate of FROR and usually...the person who wants it and fights for it? Is the one who it ends up biting in the rear in the longrun. :cool:
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
casa said:
That parent you know should file to modify the FROR and explain the modification is necessary since the child is unable to have any time with extended family members during that parents timeshare. That is a good example of how people mis-use FROR. I am NOT an advocate of FROR and usually...the person who wants it and fights for it? Is the one who it ends up biting in the rear in the longrun. :cool:
Actually, that is what they did, and the judge ruled that FROR did not kick in if the caregiver was a member of the household or family.
 

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