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What is "reasonable" control?

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deanpavil

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Ohio
Here is what I was cited on:
4511.202. Operating vehicle without reasonable control.

(A) No person shall operate a motor vehicle, trackless trolley, or streetcar on any street, highway, or property open to the public for vehicular traffic without being in reasonable control of the vehicle, trolley, or streetcar.

Here is what happened:
I was travelling a state route north bound early in the morning. 5:30 -6:00 AM it was dark and raining. Light and steady, we were getting the remnants of Katrina. I was travelling 50 -55 MPH on a straight stretch of the road. There is a railroad track that intersects the road. The road crosses the tracks in an "S" pattern. I was 1000 -1500 ft from the crossing when I let off the accelerator so I would slow down and coast across the tracks. God knows what happened next. The car hydroplaned to the left. I steered the car back to the right but hit the berm and went into a steep ditch. When the car hit the bottom it spun around backwards and slid about 30 ft on the opposite side of the ditch. That side of the ditch was steeper and the car gently rolled on its top and then came to rest on the passenger side. No air bags deployed, I didn't receive a single scratch or bruise. I did discover there is a trick to getting out of seatbelts upsidedown. The whole operation was quicker and smoother than a roller coaster ride at Cedar Point. Unfortunately the car was only good for one ride.

My question- How to proceed?
I have travelled this road for 5 years, 500 to 600 times per year in all sorts of weather and at all times of the day and night. I'm afraid I know this road better than my bed. I reasoned from this experience that my rate of speed was reasonable. I was trained not to brake in a spin and I used all the controls that the manufacturer had available to me-(reasonable?) The road surface looked homogenous (evenly wet). There appeared to be no hazards but something on the surface changed. How can the operator control the road surface or contend with unseen hazards? ie. Black ice, sink holes.
I went to court since the ticket I was served listed the code as ###.702 but the judge quickly corrected me and informed me that it was ####.202 I plead Not Guilty to the charge. Should I have plead No Contest? Anyway the court date is in a couple of weeks. Can I get this charge dropped? What is the best way to proceed for this outcome? Thanks
 


M assumption would be that the judge will not find that you were in reasonable control if you slid off the road, into a ditch, then rolled. Is this charge a lesser charge than Reckless Driving in your state? If so, I would consider the lesser charge a good thing....
 

LSCAP

Member
Reasonable control sounds like a catch all law.

Is some one saying that if a tree landed on your roof and you ran off the road, you weren't in "reasonable control"

When you get to court speak to the DA. Explain like you did here. If he/she is willing to drop it or at least reduce it to something with no points, like equipment, I'd accept. If not I would request a post ponement to get an attorney.
 

deanpavil

Junior Member
Speaking to the DA

Is there a certain protocal when contacting the DA? Are they available before the court starts or do need to make appointments in advance? Also since I cannot deny "failure to control" (they have the pictures) and I am contesting the "reasonable" part of the law should I plead 'NO Contest' instead of 'Not Guilty'. Thanks
 

LSCAP

Member
No contest means you are admitting guilt. Being upside down doesn’t guarantee that you were at fault. Therefor you are "not Guilty".

I don’t believe, from what you said that you are guilty. ( btw, did they recently repave that section of road, making it covered with new OILY slippery asphalt?)

Different courts do it different ways.
I have seen one court with a room behind the Judge’s bench where people were lined up talking to the DA, before court was called,"In session".
One court called all the cases to check if the defendants and officers were present then took a break to allow people to talk to the DA at the side of the room.
Then after a couple of “Guilty” by the Judge, they called another recess so the ones that had been listening could now line up at the side and plea to lesser charges.

In one court the cops weren’t present and when your case was called you had to go to the DA who was sitting at his table, ( you almost had to bow) to talk softly to him. That court was set up to be able to throw out/ or handle cases (like yours, the cop didn’t witness the accident) that didn’t need a cop to testify.
And in one court just before your case was called, ( after everything including dog catcher cases were called) the DA would consult with the cop and then decide to go over to the defendant ( who stubbonly refused to giv e up :) ) and then, maybe, offer a deal for lesser charges.

I would explain to the DA just as you did here, you are a safe driver with years of experience, no tickets, regularly drive that road in all kinds of weather etc. and your belief (if It was asphalt) that it may have been recently repaved. ( oil rises out of new asphalt in the rain). ( and the rain must have washed away the sand( :rolleyes: ) that was put there by the county.

If you don’t get a chance to talk to the DA (very rare) Testify as above, “safe driver, years of experience etc.

And since most courts like “court costs” if the DA is hesitant, suggest that you would be willing to end it by pleading guilt to an equipment violation.

IF they wont give you a break, I would request a postponement to get an attorney. You don't need the points, your insurance will probably go up because of the damage to your car, why make it worse with points.
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
LSCAP said:
No contest means you are admitting guilt. Being upside down doesn’t guarantee that you were at fault. Therefor you are "not Guilty".

I don’t believe, from what you said that you are guilty. ( btw, did they recently repave that section of road, making it covered with new OILY slippery asphalt?)

Different courts do it different ways.
I have seen one court with a room behind the Judge’s bench where people were lined up talking to the DA, before court was called,"In session".
One court called all the cases to check if the defendants and officers were present then took a break to allow people to talk to the DA at the side of the room.
Then after a couple of “Guilty” by the Judge, they called another recess so the ones that had been listening could now line up at the side and plea to lesser charges.

In one court the cops weren’t present and when your case was called you had to go to the DA who was sitting at his table, ( you almost had to bow) to talk softly to him. That court was set up to be able to throw out/ or handle cases (like yours, the cop didn’t witness the accident) that didn’t need a cop to testify.
And in one court just before your case was called, ( after everything including dog catcher cases were called) the DA would consult with the cop and then decide to go over to the defendant ( who stubbonly refused to giv e up :) ) and then, maybe, offer a deal for lesser charges.

I would explain to the DA just as you did here, you are a safe driver with years of experience, no tickets, regularly drive that road in all kinds of weather etc. and your belief (if It was asphalt) that it may have been recently repaved. ( oil rises out of new asphalt in the rain). ( and the rain must have washed away the sand( :rolleyes: ) that was put there by the county.

If you don’t get a chance to talk to the DA (very rare) Testify as above, “safe driver, years of experience etc.

And since most courts like “court costs” if the DA is hesitant, suggest that you would be willing to end it by pleading guilt to an equipment violation.

IF they wont give you a break, I would request a postponement to get an attorney. You don't need the points, your insurance will probably go up because of the damage to your car, why make it worse with points.
You need banned from this site. You are all over the place giving absolute incorrect info.
 

LSCAP

Member
" To Paradise" Who made you GOD? :confused:
I've just described a few of the courts I've been to or testified in. I have testified in courts in NYC up to and including the New York State Supreme court. I have been to and involved with courts in Nassau county NY, Rockland county NY. And some courts in NC. Too close to home to name here, now that I am considered a Dam___ Yankee. :p

I admit these courts I’ve described are not NYC traffic courts as they changed the system over 25 years ago to a hearing in front of some sort of clerk, usually without the cop present. I believe you can appeal the decision and have a hearing in front of a judge and with the cop present.
But then, after I left Highway, I wasn't big anymore, on giving out tickets.

I have no idea what California courts are like, but after they fall into the ocean it won't be a problem anyway. :rolleyes:

PARIDISE; HOW LONG CAN YOU TRED WATER? :)
 

Curt581

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
You need banned from this site. You are all over the place giving absolute incorrect info.
I wholeheartedly agree.

LSCAP, you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.

deanpavil, for the purposes of the statute or ordinance you were cited under, the accepted definition of "reasonable control" is: that control necessary to avoid a traffic collision.

Since you were involved in an accident (rollovers as you describe don't just 'happen'), you obviously didn't exercise "reasonable control".
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
I suspect I know why you have dealt with the courts as much as you have.
(QUOTE)I have no idea what California courts are like, (QUOTE)

Thank you for staying out of our state and court system.
 

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