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What the heck do I do?

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Oraeryu

Member
What is the name of your state?: California

In April, my wife and I moved into a room in a house, taking over a spot for a student who was going to study abroad (which at the time we didn't know). By the end of the second month some tensions had arisen between us and a couple of the other roommates, and because I didn't feel like I had a leg to stand on, I sent an email to the landlord asking for a copy of the lease so I could see exactly what I'd agreed to and whether there was a clause about guests or noise (or really anything I could use to stand up for myself). He replied that "This is a complete violation of our lease agreement. You would have no rights there, as your not authorized to stay at [address]. I will have to speak to the approved tenants of [address]." He then asked if they'd taken any money from me, if I paid a deposit, and which of the tenants had left. I answered his questions; yes, yes (with the amount), and the name of the student. He responded "That would make a total of 6 people living there, correct? This was completely against the terms of our lease. I'm not sure why they think this is acceptable or where they came up with these random numbers for deposit. This is very upsetting to say the least."

I was never provided with a copy, but since I'm not an approved tenant, I guess it doesn't matter. I haven't heard anything from him since, but my roommates have become more passive-aggressive lately, so I assume a conversation was had. I'm planning to move mid-July, but what are my obligations to the space? Am I required to notify them in advance, or can I just leave? Do they even have the legal right to collect rent from me? Is my security deposit gone in a puff of smoke because it wasn't an authorized deposit to begin with? The landlord seems to have decided that the other roommates will tell me what they discussed, but that doesn't seem likely; should I contact the landlord again?

I'm so confused.
 


adjusterjack

Senior Member
Clear up a few things by answering each of the following:

Did you sign a lease?
If you signed a lease without insisting on retaining a copy, that was dumb.
With whom did you sign it?
The owner or a roommate?

If you did not sign a lease did you make an unwritten rental agreement?
With whom did you make it?
The owner or a roommate?

To whom did you give your security deposit?
The owner or a roommate?

Meantime, read the following statutes:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1946.1.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1950.5.
 

Oraeryu

Member
Clear up a few things by answering each of the following:

Did you sign a lease?
If you signed a lease without insisting on retaining a copy, that was dumb.
With whom did you sign it?
The owner or a roommate?

If you did not sign a lease did you make an unwritten rental agreement?
With whom did you make it?
The owner or a roommate?

To whom did you give your security deposit?
The owner or a roommate?

Meantime, read the following statutes:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1946.1.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1950.5.
I did not sign a lease; if I had been presented one to sign, I definitely would have kept it. I agreed to move into the room for an unspecified amount of time verbally, with the roommate who has since moved out; this is the same person I gave the security deposit to. I wasn't aware that it was his room I was moving into, and didn't find out until all of the other roommates returned from spring break that the person I'd made all the agreements to was in Spain for the next year.
 

Oraeryu

Member
Your 'll is the guy in Spain ...deal with him as required.
Does that apply if I've been making my rent payments to another roommate; like the guy in Spain is the LL and the person I'm paying rent to is the manager?
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
The one in Spain , the one you paid created a sublet with you even if he violated a lease agreement he signed with the Landlord and other roommates. So yes you will have to sue him for the refund of your deposit. Do you have a mailing address for him ? ( my guess is that you might not ever find him again ) Do you know if he put in a forwarding address for mail to a USA address such as his parents ? {post office maybe they can tell you if he filed a change of address) SO when you paid your rent last time to who did you pay it to ?
 

Litigator22

Active Member
What is the name of your state?: California

In April, my wife and I moved into a room in a house, taking over a spot for a student who was going to study abroad (which at the time we didn't know). By the end of the second month some tensions had arisen between us and a couple of the other roommates, and because I didn't feel like I had a leg to stand on, I sent an email to the landlord asking for a copy of the lease so I could see exactly what I'd agreed to and whether there was a clause about guests or noise (or really anything I could use to stand up for myself). He replied that "This is a complete violation of our lease agreement. You would have no rights there, as your not authorized to stay at [address]. I will have to speak to the approved tenants of [address]." He then asked if they'd taken any money from me, if I paid a deposit, and which of the tenants had left. I answered his questions; yes, yes (with the amount), and the name of the student. He responded "That would make a total of 6 people living there, correct? This was completely against the terms of our lease. I'm not sure why they think this is acceptable or where they came up with these random numbers for deposit. This is very upsetting to say the least."

I was never provided with a copy, but since I'm not an approved tenant, I guess it doesn't matter. I haven't heard anything from him since, but my roommates have become more passive-aggressive lately, so I assume a conversation was had. I'm planning to move mid-July, but what are my obligations to the space? Am I required to notify them in advance, or can I just leave? Do they even have the legal right to collect rent from me? Is my security deposit gone in a puff of smoke because it wasn't an authorized deposit to begin with? The landlord seems to have decided that the other roommates will tell me what they discussed, but that doesn't seem likely; should I contact the landlord again?

I'm so confused.
Listen please!

You are making this more complicated than it is. It is a simple matter of applying basic contract principles to the agreement or arrangement that you made with the tenants.

You have since learned that the tenants you dealt with had no authority to rent you and your wife the vacant room.

Consequently there is no quid pro quo; that is, there is no consideration supporting your promise to remit any rent money to them. In principal it is no different than if the same people sold you a car that they didn't own.

And the same applies to any advance rent or deposit for future rent that you paid the tenants. Meaning, no tenancy agreement having resulted from the arrangement and no rent money contractually due them you are entitled to recoup the rent deposit.

However - and here is where it could become complicated - you are not entitled to be reimbursed for any purported rent that you paid the tenants. But if the owner should elect to sue you for the reasonable use of his property (for which you are legally obligated) you could in theory sue the tenants for a judgment over in the amount of what you paid them purportedly as rent.
 

HRZ

Senior Member
I disagree in part ....if you merely stop paying the roommates they lack standing in the deal to collect or evict you ....the guy in Spain is on the hook ...the owner/ LL can chase the guy in Spain and or his other tenants if the lease provides for joint and several liability . The guy in Spain can chase you .. Good luck on that for now .
 

Oraeryu

Member
The one in Spain , the one you paid created a sublet with you even if he violated a lease agreement he signed with the Landlord and other roommates. So yes you will have to sue him for the refund of your deposit. Do you have a mailing address for him ? ( my guess is that you might not ever find him again ) Do you know if he put in a forwarding address for mail to a USA address such as his parents ? {post office maybe they can tell you if he filed a change of address) SO when you paid your rent last time to who did you pay it to ?
I don't have a mailing address, but I do still have the phone number we texted through to communicate. I don't know if he kept his cellphone, but I think it might be worth a shot. The last time I paid rent (at the end of May for June's rent), it was to a roommate in the house through Venmo. He's the only one with an account at a major bank, so he's the one who cuts the actual check to the landlord.
 

Oraeryu

Member
Listen please!

You are making this more complicated than it is. It is a simple matter of applying basic contract principles to the agreement or arrangement that you made with the tenants.

You have since learned that the tenants you dealt with had no authority to rent you and your wife the vacant room.

Consequently there is no quid pro quo; that is, there is no consideration supporting your promise to remit any rent money to them. In principal it is no different than if the same people sold you a car that they didn't own.

And the same applies to any advance rent or deposit for future rent that you paid the tenants. Meaning, no tenancy agreement having resulted from the arrangement and no rent money contractually due them you are entitled to recoup the rent deposit.

However - and here is where it could become complicated - you are not entitled to be reimbursed for any purported rent that you paid the tenants. But if the owner should elect to sue you for the reasonable use of his property (for which you are legally obligated) you could in theory sue the tenants for a judgment over in the amount of what you paid them purportedly as rent.
That was my impression too, actually. Since they had no right to sub-lease to me, that any verbal agreement made is null and void. Thankfully (I guess), the deposit amount was low and I've been paying month-to-month, so I'm not out thousands of dollars over nothing. I do know their lease is due to be re-signed in August, and because of how things are, my wife and I are planning to move in July. I'm going to try and get the deposit back if I can, but if it's going to be a huge pain in the ass I'll probably just let it go. They've probably spent it, honestly, since the room is $1225/mo and the deposit was only $400. Probably went right into their Tuesday night ragers. :rolleyes:
 

Oraeryu

Member
I disagree in part ....if you merely stop paying the roommates they lack standing in the deal to collect or evict you ....the guy in Spain is on the hook ...the owner/ LL can chase the guy in Spain and or his other tenants if the lease provides for joint and several liability . The guy in Spain can chase you .. Good luck on that for now .
Unfortunately, I don't know what the lease provides for, since the landlord won't show me a copy. I have another place lined up that I'm 90% sure we're accepted for and the plan is to move mid-July, so as long as I can't be on the hook for anything, then I guess I have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for all the input guys, it's been illuminating!
 

Litigator22

Active Member
Unfortunately, I don't know what the lease provides for, since the landlord won't show me a copy. I have another place lined up that I'm 90% sure we're accepted for and the plan is to move mid-July, so as long as I can't be on the hook for anything, then I guess I have nothing to worry about. Thanks for all the input guys, it's been illuminating!
Nothing to worry about?

How about the admitted fact that you and your wife have taken up residency in a rental property without either the express or implied permission of the owner? It doesn't concern you that you and your wife are squatters?

On top of which - without any mention of your intention to appease the owner and gain permission to remain in residence - you have the arrant gall to think that you have the right to remain as squatters until you find it convenient to remove yourselves! All indicative of the same thoughtlessness that got you into this predicament.

Lastly, if you feel that you've been "illuminated" by HRZ's typical brand of senseless gibberish, then consider checking into the nearest mental clinic for the help you desperately need!
 

Oraeryu

Member
Nothing to worry about?

How about the admitted fact that you and your wife have taken up residency in a rental property without either the express or implied permission of the owner? It doesn't concern you that you and your wife are squatters?

On top of which - without any mention of your intention to appease the owner and gain permission to remain in residence - you have the arrant gall to think that you have the right to remain as squatters until you find it convenient to remove yourselves! All indicative of the same thoughtlessness that got you into this predicament.

Lastly, if you feel that you've been "illuminated" by HRZ's typical brand of senseless gibberish, then consider checking into the nearest mental clinic for the help you desperately need!
My comment about being illuminated was directed at everyone who responded to the thread, as evidenced by the identifier "guys". Since the aggression of the roommates has continued to escalate since my contact with the landlord (that was June 12th, by the way), it was always my intention to leave as soon as possible; their lease is expiring at the end of July as it is, and I'm not keen to sign a contract to live with four men who seem to hate us for another year. If this hadn't ever come to light, I would have left at the end of the lease term; the plan hasn't changed, simply the timing.

Again, the responses here have been illuminating, and I appreciate everyone's insight!
 

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