When the judge forces you to get an attorney?

[MinCA]

What is the name of your state? California

The judge ordred my hubby to get an attorney yesterday and said he won't be allowed back in court without one. We live at half the poverty level and can't afford this. The reason the judge said he has to get an attorney is that he filed a 388-motion for change of custody due to change of circumstances after finding out his daughter's babysitters are both on Megan's List for child molestation and other child sex crimes. The judge didn't even open the document or look at the evidence attached. "Mom" lets this child around molesters a lot. The child has been removed from "Mom's" custody twice due to the child being sexually abused. "Mom" is fighting in court to get her own mother custody of this child. "Mom" isn't a real mom any further than being a DNA match. Even the child prefers to call her by her first name.

Back to the point. We can't afford an attorney. All the attorneys in the entire freaking country that can be appointed to a case like this have already represented either the "mom" or one of her first-degree relatives and therefore can't represent my hubby as it would be conflict of interest.

So I have two questions. How can we deal with this? In other words, since when can a judge violate your right to self-representation without showing you to be mentally unfit? If there's a law about this, my hubby needs it.

The second is is there a law that a non-profit can attend court with you and aid you during the hearing? The founder of an international non-profit parents' right organization (for equal rights, not for one parent to have more rights) wants to attend the next court date and assist my hubby. My hubby wants this very much. But we are all having trouble finding the law. My estranged aunt once told me that such a law exists that a non-profit may assist, but not represent without a bar license, a member of its organization in court. She owns a law firm that has expanded to four locations over the years, but as we haven't spoken since my dad, her brother, died, there's no chance of asking her for the law code.

IAAL or someone who knows, PLEASE help. The child in question is in extreme danger and CPS wants to pull her from the situation she lives in, but the judge has already stated he forbids it and would immediately place her back over there. CPS has pulled her twice, and twice the judge puts her back, regardless of the child porn police confiscated (said porn in the child's grandfather's possession included pictures of the chld's mother, his own daughter, in sexually explicit poses as a child!!), subsequent confessions to child molestation and victimization of this child, and so on. Honest to God, the court has given no reason why my hubby isn't even allowed to see his daughter. CPS can't figure it out either-they've been in court stating that this father is the safe parent and the "mother" is abusive and fails to protect the child. And the "mother" admitted to abandoning the child for half a year when the father had no visitation rights. All the visitation he now has are "when it's convenient to the mother's schedule," which it hasn't been for over a month. And last time was for one hour. And the judge ordered it directly supervised by a social worker. If a social worker thinks either of us in dangerous, we wouldn't know where her children go to school, and she wouldn't have referred me to the dance school where her little neice currently dances. We just don't know what to do anymore.

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? California

The judge ordred my hubby to get an attorney yesterday and said he won't be allowed back in court without one. We live at half the poverty level and can't afford this. The reason the judge said he has to get an attorney is that he filed a 388-motion for change of custody due to change of circumstances after finding out his daughter's babysitters are both on Megan's List for child molestation and other child sex crimes. The judge didn't even open the document or look at the evidence attached. "Mom" lets this child around molesters a lot. The child has been removed from "Mom's" custody twice due to the child being sexually abused. "Mom" is fighting in court to get her own mother custody of this child. "Mom" isn't a real mom any further than being a DNA match. Even the child prefers to call her by her first name.

Back to the point. We can't afford an attorney. All the attorneys in the entire freaking country that can be appointed to a case like this have already represented either the "mom" or one of her first-degree relatives and therefore can't represent my hubby as it would be conflict of interest.

So I have two questions. How can we deal with this? In other words, since when can a judge violate your right to self-representation without showing you to be mentally unfit? If there's a law about this, my hubby needs it.

The second is is there a law that a non-profit can attend court with you and aid you during the hearing? The founder of an international non-profit parents' right organization (for equal rights, not for one parent to have more rights) wants to attend the next court date and assist my hubby. My hubby wants this very much. But we are all having trouble finding the law. My estranged aunt once told me that such a law exists that a non-profit may assist, but not represent without a bar license, a member of its organization in court. She owns a law firm that has expanded to four locations over the years, but as we haven't spoken since my dad, her brother, died, there's no chance of asking her for the law code.

IAAL or someone who knows, PLEASE help. The child in question is in extreme danger and CPS wants to pull her from the situation she lives in, but the judge has already stated he forbids it and would immediately place her back over there. CPS has pulled her twice, and twice the judge puts her back, regardless of the child porn police confiscated (said porn in the child's grandfather's possession included pictures of the chld's mother, his own daughter, in sexually explicit poses as a child!!), subsequent confessions to child molestation and victimization of this child, and so on. Honest to God, the court has given no reason why my hubby isn't even allowed to see his daughter. CPS can't figure it out either-they've been in court stating that this father is the safe parent and the "mother" is abusive and fails to protect the child. And the "mother" admitted to abandoning the child for half a year when the father had no visitation rights. All the visitation he now has are "when it's convenient to the mother's schedule," which it hasn't been for over a month. And last time was for one hour. And the judge ordered it directly supervised by a social worker. If a social worker thinks either of us in dangerous, we wouldn't know where her children go to school, and she wouldn't have referred me to the dance school where her little neice currently dances. We just don't know what to do anymore.

Apparently he has annoyed the judge by being unable to represent himself &/or not being able to file the proper forms per proper procedure.

There are laws in CA which address pro per representation in court....why don't you look some up? You've been so negative and bitter in all your posts here, it's hard to drudge up the energy to help you.

 

[MinCA]

I have no reason to be positive with the court. They are so biased and don't care about the children! Regardless of what you think about me, what matters here is that an innocent child is in an abusive situation and the court won't stop it and has forbidden the father ANY contact with his child, unless it is convenient to the bio-mom, despite declaring the father to be fit and safe. So of course I am bitter. Being raised to believe in justice, I now know she is blindfolded so she can't see what is being done in her name.

My hubby HAS filed the correct documents and has done them correctly. The judge didn't even open the document. County Counsel told us after the hearing yesterday (I spent the time in the law library upstairs) that they can't understand either why the judge is doing this, that the documents that he's filed CC described as "solid" and "impressive."

In this case, when the judge has told him to do something, he's done it without question, such as the case plan, paying for testing for a brain tumor his ex claimed he had (he doesn't have it, and the testing costs are going to take a long time to pay off), and so on. His ex-wife has fought every part of her case plan. Literally. CPS has noted in their dependency review last month that she is being "uncooperative" and that she doesn't return phone calls proptly, hasn't been home during any of the scheduled visits to check on the child there, and has made the child unavailable to them.

So regardless of what you think about me, can you please look past that to help me find the info we need so that we can hopefully one day give this child the good life she deserves?

We need to know laws regarding whether or not a judge can force you to have an attorney at your own expense and what law allows a non-profit organization to assist in court without being bar-licensed.

We are both overwhelmed.

 

[casa]

I have no reason to be positive with the court. They are so biased and don't care about the children! Regardless of what you think about me, what matters here is that an innocent child is in an abusive situation and the court won't stop it and has forbidden the father ANY contact with his child, unless it is convenient to the bio-mom, despite declaring the father to be fit and safe. So of course I am bitter. Being raised to believe in justice, I now know she is blindfolded so she can't see what is being done in her name.

My hubby HAS filed the correct documents and has done them correctly. The judge didn't even open the document. County Counsel told us after the hearing yesterday (I spent the time in the law library upstairs) that they can't understand either why the judge is doing this, that the documents that he's filed CC described as "solid" and "impressive."

In this case, when the judge has told him to do something, he's done it without question, such as the case plan, paying for testing for a brain tumor his ex claimed he had (he doesn't have it, and the testing costs are going to take a long time to pay off), and so on. His ex-wife has fought every part of her case plan. Literally. CPS has noted in their dependency review last month that she is being "uncooperative" and that she doesn't return phone calls proptly, hasn't been home during any of the scheduled visits to check on the child there, and has made the child unavailable to them.

So regardless of what you think about me, can you please look past that to help me find the info we need so that we can hopefully one day give this child the good life she deserves?

We need to know laws regarding whether or not a judge can force you to have an attorney at your own expense and what law allows a non-profit organization to assist in court without being bar-licensed.

We are both overwhelmed.

You can have someone assist you out of court, but not in court- unless they are bar-licensed etc.

The problem here is the judge has already ordered your husband to retain counsel- which is what he must now do.

If documents are filed on the case, the judge has seen them- whether or not he opened them in front of you or not. Prior to a hearing the judge reviews all the documents in a case.

If it were my child, I'd sell my vehicle if I had to- and rideshare for the sake of my children's safety. Sell my home if I owned, contact every legal aid society and pro bono association in the county. Also you need to check CA family law codes online re; your questions re; pro per representation.

 

[Ambr]

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp

http://www.ajs.org/prose/pro_links.asp

 

[MinCA]

We own no real estate, and there is no public transportation into- or out of- this town. Our car books at $400. The costs of a taxi to the nearest train station would be $15 each way, plus $5 fair. $20 each way, $40 per day. If we got book value, that would last 10 days. We looked into this and the cost to get to court 145 miles away (as I said-the child was a resident of this country prior to this case) would entail a taxi to the train, train to BART to the other side of the Bay, hitching a Greyhound to the town court is in, and a taxi to the courthouse (no city buses along the route). About $70 per person each way.

We don't have much furniture, and that we have is falling apart. We don't buy new clothes-I replair what we have. I had to bypass getting an antibiotic I needed because we couldn't afford it-luckily the infection went away on its own.

So this isn't a matter of wanting to get an attorney or not. It's a matter of the only way to pay one would be to resort to illegal means and end up in jail. The money is there and available or it's not. That's all there is to it.

What do you make of it when a judge says in court that he's not even going to read a document? One of the social workers told me the judge said that yesterday which is why I say the judge didn't read it.

In another thread, Stealth offered some info on where to at least possibly find an attorney for a pro bono consultation. We have contacted agencies and such all over the state, not just this county, to try to find some help.

To my understanding, Americans have the inalienable right to self-representation.

I might mention two of the multiple social workers on this case "suggested" filing in the state appeals court. It's been accepted in the 9th district court of appeals. The state appointed an attorney for that case, but as he's only for the appeals case, he can't advise on the county level. Downside is that he said an appeal can take a year or two. That will be a year or two more of her life spent in an abusive home. Trust me-you want to rip into someone when you see a child has extremely large bruises over most of her legs and she cries about how mommy's boyfriend hits her. She's been through this for half her life. It needs to stop NOW, not in a year or two.

 

[Chelle0511]

~I do feel for you, and most of all I feel for this innocent child however, I do have a question. If your financial situation is how you state... can you please tell me how you will provide for this child?

 

[casa]

We own no real estate, and there is no public transportation into- or out of- this town. Our car books at $400. The costs of a taxi to the nearest train station would be $15 each way, plus $5 fair. $20 each way, $40 per day. If we got book value, that would last 10 days. We looked into this and the cost to get to court 145 miles away (as I said-the child was a resident of this country prior to this case) would entail a taxi to the train, train to BART to the other side of the Bay, hitching a Greyhound to the town court is in, and a taxi to the courthouse (no city buses along the route). About $70 per person each way.

We don't have much furniture, and that we have is falling apart. We don't buy new clothes-I replair what we have. I had to bypass getting an antibiotic I needed because we couldn't afford it-luckily the infection went away on its own.

So this isn't a matter of wanting to get an attorney or not. It's a matter of the only way to pay one would be to resort to illegal means and end up in jail. The money is there and available or it's not. That's all there is to it.

What do you make of it when a judge says in court that he's not even going to read a document? One of the social workers told me the judge said that yesterday which is why I say the judge didn't read it.

In another thread, Stealth offered some info on where to at least possibly find an attorney for a pro bono consultation. We have contacted agencies and such all over the state, not just this county, to try to find some help.

To my understanding, Americans have the inalienable right to self-representation.

I might mention two of the multiple social workers on this case "suggested" filing in the state appeals court. It's been accepted in the 9th district court of appeals. The state appointed an attorney for that case, but as he's only for the appeals case, he can't advise on the county level. Downside is that he said an appeal can take a year or two. That will be a year or two more of her life spent in an abusive home. Trust me-you want to rip into someone when you see a child has extremely large bruises over most of her legs and she cries about how mommy's boyfriend hits her. She's been through this for half her life. It needs to stop NOW, not in a year or two.

Are you taking pictures of the child when you see her with bruises? If the last CPS investigation is over and the child is continuing to be abused- make another report. They eventually pile up. Also, if you have the people the child stays with listed on Megan's Law, have you copied that information and filed it with the court case? Every single piece of documentation needs to be filed. Including the social worker's reports~ Instead of waiting for a hearing and for the judge to discuss things with the workers. You want the file full of ANY and ALL documentation. If the child is staying with these perpetrators and is supposed to be staying with the mother- Have you contacted neighbors or anyone who can give you written affidavits/testimony to that?

I have worked with abused children- so yes, I understand the frustration and heartache involved. The problem here is that it's more helpful to perservere and follow up on all avenues- than it is to start a battle with the 'system'.

Chelle's question re; how you are going to financially be able to support this child is a question I have also. If you cannot afford antibiotics for yourself, what will you do if/when the child gets ill?

And Yes, you have EVERY reason to be positive with the court. Any negative attitude you present there will not be appreciated by the judge, etc.

Has the father petitioned the court for a GAL, CASA or advocate of any kind for the child within the court system? This needs to be done ASAP. The more professionals you have looking into the child's welfare and your case, the better.

 

[seniorjudge]

Yes, you have the right to represent yourself but you cannot expect the judge to teach you how to do it.

Contact the state bar in your state and ask about pro bono (free) lawyers.

 

[Gracie3787]

What is the name of your state? California

The judge ordred my hubby to get an attorney yesterday and said he won't be allowed back in court without one. We live at half the poverty level and can't afford this. The reason the judge said he has to get an attorney is that he filed a 388-motion for change of custody due to change of circumstances after finding out his daughter's babysitters are both on Megan's List for child molestation and other child sex crimes. The judge didn't even open the document or look at the evidence attached. "Mom" lets this child around molesters a lot. The child has been removed from "Mom's" custody twice due to the child being sexually abused. "Mom" is fighting in court to get her own mother custody of this child. "Mom" isn't a real mom any further than being a DNA match. Even the child prefers to call her by her first name.

Back to the point. We can't afford an attorney. All the attorneys in the entire freaking country that can be appointed to a case like this have already represented either the "mom" or one of her first-degree relatives and therefore can't represent my hubby as it would be conflict of interest.

So I have two questions. How can we deal with this? In other words, since when can a judge violate your right to self-representation without showing you to be mentally unfit? If there's a law about this, my hubby needs it.

The second is is there a law that a non-profit can attend court with you and aid you during the hearing? The founder of an international non-profit parents' right organization (for equal rights, not for one parent to have more rights) wants to attend the next court date and assist my hubby. My hubby wants this very much. But we are all having trouble finding the law. My estranged aunt once told me that such a law exists that a non-profit may assist, but not represent without a bar license, a member of its organization in court. She owns a law firm that has expanded to four locations over the years, but as we haven't spoken since my dad, her brother, died, there's no chance of asking her for the law code.

IAAL or someone who knows, PLEASE help. The child in question is in extreme danger and CPS wants to pull her from the situation she lives in, but the judge has already stated he forbids it and would immediately place her back over there. CPS has pulled her twice, and twice the judge puts her back, regardless of the child porn police confiscated (said porn in the child's grandfather's possession included pictures of the chld's mother, his own daughter, in sexually explicit poses as a child!!), subsequent confessions to child molestation and victimization of this child, and so on. Honest to God, the court has given no reason why my hubby isn't even allowed to see his daughter. CPS can't figure it out either-they've been in court stating that this father is the safe parent and the "mother" is abusive and fails to protect the child. And the "mother" admitted to abandoning the child for half a year when the father had no visitation rights. All the visitation he now has are "when it's convenient to the mother's schedule," which it hasn't been for over a month. And last time was for one hour. And the judge ordered it directly supervised by a social worker. If a social worker thinks either of us in dangerous, we wouldn't know where her children go to school, and she wouldn't have referred me to the dance school where her little neice currently dances. We just don't know what to do anymore.

I'm not in Ca so I don't know how things are normally done out there, but it sounds like the Judge didn't want to deal with it so he made it impossible for your hubby to do anything.

I do have a suggestion though- your hubby can try contacting any Legal Aid offices, if they turn him down he should try to get it in writing.
He can write out a short summary of things, attach some evidence along with the Judge's order for him to get an attorney, then mail to as many family law attorneys as he can asking for pro bono or very low cost help. He may get some letters in return.
If he cannot find anyone to take the case, then he could try filing a motion for the court to provide an attorney for him, which may work if he has proof that he tried to find no cost, or very low cast representation.
I hope this helps, and I wish you and him luck.