Who owns it?

[LdiJ]

The corporation put up the property for sale. But that's meaningless if there will be no buyers at the price the corporation is looking for. The water problem is likely one of the big motivations to sell now, hoping to dump that problem on an unaware buyer. The corporation may be stuck with a declining asset unless it is willing to price the property low enough to attract interest. It is the corporation that gets the proceeds of the sale. That was always going to be the case. The corporation is very likely set up with the IRS as a S-corporation, so the shareholders of the S-corporation will take their share of the profit as income on their personal income tax returns. If it wasn't set up as a S-corporation with the IRS from start then the founder screwed up because the tax cost while a C-corporation would be significantly more.

The members of the club get nothing unless they are also shareholders of the selling corporation. Whether the club members might have a claim against the FM for fraud by claiming that the club members did have ownership in it is something about which they'd need to consult a NM civil litigation attorney.

But even if an attorney would feel that the club members did have a cause of action, if the assets value is seriously declining due to the water issue, then it may not be worth pursuing.

 

[adjusterjack]

ou are all confirming my “take” on this mess. There isn’t anything the club can do. These 5 shareholders will sell, and the club can do nothing about it.

Which begs the question - Who are you in all this?

 

[Againandagain]

I am dues paying member of the club Since 2016.

so, piecing this all together…FM said she created the club in 1985. Have yet to find evidence for the existence of this club. FM created the Missouri corporation the next year, and a piece of land in NM was warranty deeded to this new corporation. The incorporation says the purpose of the corporation is to support and benefit the club. The purchase of the land and the creation of the RV park was done with money loaned to the club by members. There are newsletter from that time where FM talks about the need to keep the belt tightened to have money to pay back those loans. Various fund raisers for the club have been done all the time thru the years. One lady left the club $25,000 in her will. No one can account for where that money went. In 2021 these shareholders raffled off Lifetime Memebrrships in the club to high bidders. 50/50 chance tickets were sold to benefit the club last Christmas.

for sure everyone here believed the land was owned by the club…we have been lead to believe that for years through newletters Since 1986. Donations, club dues, and more were diligently collected from us.

 

[LdiJ]

I am dues paying member of the club Since 2016.

so, piecing this all together…FM said she created the club in 1985. Have yet to find evidence for the existence of this club. FM created the Missouri corporation the next year, and a piece of land in NM was warranty deeded to this new corporation. The incorporation says the purpose of the corporation is to support and benefit the club. The purchase of the land and the creation of the RV park was done with money loaned to the club by members. There are newsletter from that time where FM talks about the need to keep the belt tightened to have money to pay back those loans. Various fund raisers for the club have been done all the time thru the years. One lady left the club $25,000 in her will. No one can account for where that money went. In 2021 these shareholders raffled off Lifetime Memebrrships in the club to high bidders. 50/50 chance tickets were sold to benefit the club last Christmas.

for sure everyone here believed the land was owned by the club…we have been lead to believe that for years through newletters Since 1986. Donations, club dues, and more were diligently collected from us.

There is nothing in the above explanation that would lead me to believe that the club owned the land. If the land was deeded to the corporation then the corporation clearly owns the land. The shareholders of the corporation own the corporation. A loan from the club members is not a purchase or buy in to anything because it is supposed to be repaid.

 

[Againandagain]

These were not loans. They were donations TO THE CLUB. I think it turned into a grift these last many years. Donate to the club and the shareholders put the money in Their own pockets

it feels like a grift to me. What club? Newsletters were propaganda? money was gotten from the members FOR the club. This was explicitly stated over and over.

 

[adjusterjack]

In 28 years did members of the "club" enjoy the facilities of the RV park?

Park their RVs there?

Live in their RVs there from time to time?

What facilities did the RV Park provide to the members?

 

[LdiJ]

These were not loans. They were donations TO THE CLUB. I think it turned into a grift these last many years. Donate to the club and the shareholders put the money in Their own pockets

it feels like a grift to me. What club? Newsletters were propaganda? money was gotten from the members FOR the club. This was explicitly stated over and over.

If they were donations then why did you say this?

"The purchase of the land and the creation of the RV park was done with money loaned to the club by members. There are newsletter from that time where FM talks about the need to keep the belt tightened to have money to pay back those loans."

I am basing my responses on your words and the law.

 

[Taxing Matters]

But even if an attorney would feel that the club members did have a cause of action, if the assets value is seriously declining due to the water issue, then it may not be worth pursuing.

Absolutely. A lot depends on the actual facts, like how fast the water is running out, what kind of alternatives they might be able to arrange for water and what that would cost, etc. A buyer may be interested at the right price if it can can make some kind of profit in the years that are projected to be left. But it doesn't look good for this community and others in the southwest that beginning to confront the water problems caused by rapid population growth and insufficient planning for it.

 

[Againandagain]

Oh…I understood that with the first response. The shareholders own it all. Now, I guess there may be a case for fraud.
1) told in writing that we, the members, own this park. Over and over since 1986. Each time with a plea for donations to the CLUB…which in fact never existed.
2) sale of memberships to a club which it seems didn’t exist.
3) the rent here is pretty much the same as all RV parks in this area, so donations were asked for above that Dollar amount.
—-we paid because we’re supporting the club.

the money didn’t go to the club…but into the pockets of the shareholders
this sounds like fraud to me.

one finally item… our current park manager tells us…..this park has not shown a profit in more than 10 years. But, shareholders were taking large salaries. Not one of them ever actually worked here (3 of the 5 have never been here) Our current park manager has managed other RV parks and is well qualified, but she is working without pay because the park has no money. She is a ”club” member and was led to believe her work was to benefit the “CLUB”. (Btw..she is pissed)

I realize that with no profit to show…no one is crazy enough to buy a business that never makes a profit…the shareholders have pretty much screwed their chance to sell. They paid each $5 for the shares they hold, a total of 5 shares are issued. now, they think they will sell for $750,000.

and, yes we could all leave. Or park manage could just quit along with the guys doing maintenance. However, for many people here they cannot move. Many have rigs that haven’t moved in years and probably can’t anymore. Many cannot afford the cost to move…etc.
we have always been a tight community helping each other and supporting each other, we believed when we told that we could have peace of mind here because we owned the place collectively. The tight community is something no one wants to give up on.

 

[Againandagain]

Absolutely. A lot depends on the actual facts, like how fast the water is running out, what kind of alternatives they might be able to arrange for water and what that would cost, etc. A buyer may be interested at the right price if it can can make some kind of profit in the years that are projected to be left. But it doesn't look good for this community and others in the southwest that beginning to confront the water problems caused by rapid population growth and insufficient planning for it.

recent hydro study done for the county claimed that the water will last until ~2060. But, the county is not allowing new wells…so when it runs dry you have to pay to extend the pipes to hook up to the county water system. The population here is quite small, but the farmers have vast fields of pecans. All of which are owned by a company in Japan and ship there each harvest season. I think foreign use of water is going to the curtailed first.

 

[adjusterjack]

the rent here is pretty much the same as all RV parks in this area

The rent anybody pays to occupy a space has nothing to do with the issue of "donations" above and beyond rent. Renting a space is a matter of contract law. I have not found any statute in Missouri that protects RV owners in an RV park.

However, for many people here they cannot move. Many have rigs that haven’t moved in years and probably can’t anymore. Many cannot afford the cost to move…etc.

A common lament. But if the property does get sold and the new owner wants to change it's use they will eventually have to figure out a way to relocate unless they have a written space lease contract which, I am guessing, nobody has.

I guess there may be a case for fraud.

Easy to accuse. Harder to prove.

In Missouri "Fraud has nine elements: (1) a representation; (2) its falsity; (3) its materiality; (4) the speaker’s knowledge of its falsity or ignorance of its truth; (5) the speaker’s intent that it should be acted on by the person and in the manner reasonably contemplated; (6) the hearer’s ignorance of the falsity of the representation; (7) the hearer’s reliance on the representation being true; (8) the hearer’s right to rely thereon; and (9) the hearer’s consequent and proximately caused injury. Stander v. Szabados, 407 S.W.3d 73, 81 (Mo. Ct. App. 2013)."

Fraud & Statute of Limitations - St Louis Attorney (elsterlaw.com)

You can "say" that all of the elements apply but a court will need "evidence." And you will need a lawyer to present it properly.

There is also a statute of limitations. Read about it at the same link. It's complicated.

There is also a statute of limitations for criminal fraud prosecution.

Missouri Criminal Statute of Limitations Laws - FindLaw

So, when did everybody figure out that there were being scammed and when did they stop making donations?

 

[Againandagain]

The rent anybody pays to occupy a space has nothing to do with the issue of "donations" above and beyond rent. Renting a space is a matter of contract law. I have not found any statute in Missouri that protects RV owners in an RV park.



A common lament. But if the property does get sold and the new owner wants to change it's use they will eventually have to figure out a way to relocate unless they have a written space lease contract which, I am guessing, nobody has.



Easy to accuse. Harder to prove.

In Missouri "Fraud has nine elements: (1) a representation; (2) its falsity; (3) its materiality; (4) the speaker’s knowledge of its falsity or ignorance of its truth; (5) the speaker’s intent that it should be acted on by the person and in the manner reasonably contemplated; (6) the hearer’s ignorance of the falsity of the representation; (7) the hearer’s reliance on the representation being true; (8) the hearer’s right to rely thereon; and (9) the hearer’s consequent and proximately caused injury. Stander v. Szabados, 407 S.W.3d 73, 81 (Mo. Ct. App. 2013)."

Fraud & Statute of Limitations - St Louis Attorney (elsterlaw.com)

You can "say" that all of the elements apply but a court will need "evidence." And you will need a lawyer to present it properly.

There is also a statute of limitations. Read about it at the same link. It's complicated.

There is also a statute of limitations for criminal fraud prosecution.

Missouri Criminal Statute of Limitations Laws - FindLaw

So, when did everybody figure out that there were being scammed and when did they stop making donations?

We learned of all this last month. We pay our rent, but no one is paying club dues until a REAL club is established…so all donations stopped last month too.

I believe that FM really believed she set up that corporation as member owned. I think she was quite ignorant of the true nature of it because the original article of organization looks like a school art work project…sections were cut from different sources (change of font and you can see the edges where it was taped down). I think she photocopied “how to create a corporation” from a book at the library and did a cut and paste the old fashioned way. Thing she did do was specifically state that your cannot buy, sell, or leave to heirs any of the shares. Only way to become a shareholder was to be voted on by the existing shareholders.

The subsequent shareholders (from about 1996) were taking the money out of this place every year. Maybe before that…but finding complete accounting records has proved impossible… looks like it was a fraud….maybe they didn’t know it by that word…but they knew they were begging for donations that were NOT going to the club, because they were putting that money into their own pockets. Further, I cannot see where there is any club. Yes, there is the ranch..but that is owned by the shareholders…not a club. There isn’t anything else except for the corporation.

But….stripping the corporation of profit and then begging for donations to run the Club……that is fraud. It has happened every few months all the time I have been a “club” member (8 years), last big fundraiser was over this past Christmas. Did they know? Sure, they were taking the money For themselves not the “club”. The woman who left $25,000 in her will….to the club….she didn’t think it was going to go into the pockets of these 5 people. People who bought lifetime membership ($3,000 - $7200) actually thought they were supporting the CLUB buying something to show their support (their member card is gold colored..the rest have only beige) ). Many of the people who put big amounts of money into this “club” are still members, still alive, still here, and mad as hell.

thank you for the time and effort you have spend on this. I appreciate all the references you provided to me.

 

[adjusterjack]

Now that everybody knows they've been scammed, what does everybody want to do about it?

 

[Againandagain]

Well….we hope to get the attention of the DA. People have taken steps to ensure the documents we do have are under our control. We wonder what else we need to bring to the DA.

oh..one item that has popped up….in 1985 FM and the shareholder/president had a court case in Missouri. I cannot seem to get a copy of it…I tried to get it online, but the case is too old for the electronic system. How can I get it? If what the idle talks says about it…the case was about “who owns the corporation“ and thus who has control. We know the answer to the question…but it is proof the shareholders knew from even way back then that the begging for donation to the club was a scam. Any pointers to get this old case? Driving there isn’t possible, but perhaps there is somewhere I could write To get it?

 

[adjusterjack]

.in 1985 FM and the shareholder/president had a court case in Missouri. I cannot seem to get a copy of it…I tried to get it online, but the case is too old for the electronic system. How can I get it?

If you know which court in Missouri, the court clerk might look it up and send you copies for a fee. Or you might have to hire a local private investigator to search and copy the file for you. If you don't know which court, you'll have to go court by court, county by county.