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Will requirement in CA

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zddoodah

Active Member
My SO and I are looking for a lawyer who can handle a simple will, but we might not find someone in time.

In time for what? Lawyers "who can handle a simple will" are ubiquitous (although, based on your follow up posts, you need more than just "a simple will").


In the meantime, we are wondering a plain written will which is not used legal terms by us with two witnesses are good enough.

Huh? This sentence makes little grammatical sense. Good enough for what?


we have to find another lawyer now.

Google "[name of county in which you live] estate planning attorney." Unless you live in one of the lesser populated counties in the far northern part of the state (e.g., Alpine, Sierra, Modoc, Mono, Trinity, etc.) you'll find tons of names.
 


PAPP

Active Member
I'm sorry my explanation is bad. I meant we want to create a valid will while we find a lawyer just in case my husband passes away before we create it with a lawyer. My husband wants to do it correctly with a lawyer because sometimes a simple thing like moving a pen from left to right, goes very bad and it takes months to fix it. It seems we don't need a lawyer to make a simple will, but we prefer to get help by a lawyer. We know plenty of lawyers are available. It's hard for us to find a right lawyer in hurry. The lawyer we were recommended is targeted for wealthy people. It doesn't work for us. We are totally unprepared for the present situation. I'm sorry I was not pulling myself together well to explain our situation nicely.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
I'm sorry my explanation is bad. I meant we want to create a valid will while we find a lawyer just in case my husband passes away before we create it with a lawyer. My husband wants to do it correctly with a lawyer because sometimes a simple thing like moving a pen from left to right, goes very bad and it takes months to fix it. It seems we don't need a lawyer to make a simple will, but we prefer to get help by a lawyer. We know plenty of lawyers are available. It's hard for us to find a right lawyer in hurry. The lawyer we were recommended is targeted for wealthy people. It doesn't work for us. We are totally unprepared for the present situation. I'm sorry I was not pulling myself together well to explain our situation nicely.
As explained earlier, the best and most cost effective solution is to get as many assets as possible transferred via Designated Beneficiary or Transfer on Death at the various financial institutions that hold the assets, and those designations can easily be changed whenever needed. It would also be good in some cases to have everything in joint accounts (checking, brokerage, etc), which makes things even simpler, although that is not reversable without both parties agreeing.

Keeping the number and amount of assets that need to be transferred to heirs via probate of a will is key to a cost effective and timely process when one spouses becomes deceased, and makes requirements of a will much simpler and less expensive (there aren't many cheap lawyers). If you do these things described above, a simple California Statutory Will shown here might be sufficient:
https://saclaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/6240-Statutory-will-form.pdf
 

zddoodah

Active Member
I'm sorry my explanation is bad. I meant we want to create a valid will while we find a lawyer just in case my husband passes away before we create it with a lawyer. My husband wants to do it correctly with a lawyer because sometimes a simple thing like moving a pen from left to right, goes very bad and it takes months to fix it. It seems we don't need a lawyer to make a simple will, but we prefer to get help by a lawyer. We know plenty of lawyers are available. It's hard for us to find a right lawyer in hurry. The lawyer we were recommended is targeted for wealthy people. It doesn't work for us. We are totally unprepared for the present situation. I'm sorry I was not pulling myself together well to explain our situation nicely.

The requirements for a valid will are as follows: (1) it must be in writing; (2) it must be signed by the testator ("testator" is the person making the will); and (3) it must be witnessed by two persons who witnessed the testator's signature or to whom the testator has acknowledged that he signed it and who understand the nature of the document. Cal. Probate Code section 6110. The witnesses should not be persons who will benefit from the will. See section 6112 (same link).
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Just to clarify what Mark A was talking about here are some comments:

A joint account (joint bank account, joint investment account etc) always passes to the other account holder if one of the account holders was to pass away. A joint account does not go through probate. A joint account can also have a beneficiary assigned, as well, in case both account holders were to pass away at the same time.

A beneficiary, is someone who is named as the person to receive the assets in an account, when the account holder passes away. An account with a beneficiary does not go through probate either. Those types of accounts are generally life insurance, retirement accounts or investment accounts, but can also be bank accounts).

An asset can also have a TOD (transfer on death) designation, to pass an asset to a specific person when the owner passes away. This type of designation is often used for real estate, but sometimes for other types of accounts as well.

If an account or asset has a joint account holder, a beneficiary or a TOD designation it is not controlled by a will. There are people who do not have wills at all, but have all of their assets with one of those types of designations. It is often wise however, to still have a will, in case something gets overlooked when setting designations.

Attorneys are not normally used to set up joint accounts or beneficiaries to accounts/assets. They are sometimes needed for TOD designations, particularly for real estate.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
An asset can also have a TOD (transfer on death) designation, to pass an asset to a specific person when the owner passes away. This type of designation is often used for real estate, but sometimes for other types of accounts as well.
As you stated, in addition to real estate, some financial institutions use the term Transfer on Death. Others use Payable on Death (like my bank). Some are just called Beneficiary Designation (like my brokerage firm accounts). Many times they can be setup and changed online. I once saw TOD designation printed right on the front of a US Saving Bonds (along with the Bond owner) years ago (they have since gone paperless).

Coupled with a California Statutory Will Form (as a statutory form, it is recognized by California courts when executed correctly), the combination (TOD, POD, Beneficiary Designation for all financial accounts) is usually suitable for those who cannot afford a lawyer (and even for many who can afford one). Lawyers typically charge about $450 per hour these days.

Even if one could afford a lawyer, the less the value of the estate that has to be passed via the Will, the better off the survivors will be when a person passes, because the transfer of assets to a survivor by a TOD, POD, or Beneficiary is done very quickly, but assets passed via probate of a Will takes months or sometimes years, and a lawyer to handle the probate is costly (in addition to what you paid for having the Will drawn up).

Personally if I lived in California I would prepare the California Statutory Will Form, and if really paranoid have a lawyer review it. Hopefully they would only charge one or two hours for that, but many lawyers don't want to waste their time on clients who are not going to generate a substantial fee for them, and it is hard to blame them if they have those kind of clients.

In terms of a Will being valid, it is much safer to use the California Statutory Will Form than a custom Will drawn up by a lawyer if one is worried about the validity of the Will (I remember the movie Body Heat with William Hurt and Kathleen Turner). I have seen Wills and Trust documents in my family drawn up by an expensive Estate Lawyer that had several inconsistencies and could have been challenged and possibly declared invalid had someone in the family wanted to do that.

I would get two original signed copies of the Will executed (with all hand-written designations and signatures in blue ink), and make sure everyone knows where the wills are located. It is usually difficult and expensive (although not impossible) to have a will accepted if only a copy is available.

https://saclaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/6240-Statutory-will-form.pdf

I apologize for being repetitive in my comments, but I feel pretty strongly about these things, having gone through these issues within my own family a couple of times.
 

PAPP

Active Member
Thank you for the responses and thank you for putting up with my poor explanations. One of my husband's reasons he wants to use a lawyer is he has a small valuable thing which he inherited from his best friend and he wants to make sure it will go to a specific person. It happened after we created the will last time, so he wants to arrange it strongly. Thanks to your suggestions and links, we now know what we should do and a trust for surviving non US citizens part that I think I can handle by myself if the time runs out. We hope we will find a lawyer and my husband can say rest assured.

Thank you for your empathy, Mark_A. I understand what you have been through, too. I really appreciate all your help for me. It's really beautiful things we encounter people's kindness on the internet.

Sorry, it's ranting. Last time when we created our will in a different state over a decade ago, the lawyer's hourly rate was $400. We were in a high cost living place. This time we expected the fee would be at least one hundred dollars more than before. Wrong. the fancy law firm lawyer we were recommended charges $800 one hour consultation and the whole cost is an eye popping number. One more lawyer we were recommended is in our budget, but we're in a little far out of his practicing area, so it didn't work out either. We didn't have any issue to find a lawyer last time, so we just realized it is time and energy consuming to find a right lawyer.

I really appreciate you take time to response to my post and giving me needed information.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
Thank you for the responses and thank you for putting up with my poor explanations. One of my husband's reasons he wants to use a lawyer is he has a small valuable thing which he inherited from his best friend and he wants to make sure it will go to a specific person. It happened after we created the will last time, so he wants to arrange it strongly. Thanks to your suggestions and links, we now know what we should do and a trust for surviving non US citizens part that I think I can handle by myself if the time runs out. We hope we will find a lawyer and my husband can say rest assured.

Thank you for your empathy, Mark_A. I understand what you have been through, too. I really appreciate all your help for me. It's really beautiful things we encounter people's kindness on the internet.

Sorry, it's ranting. Last time when we created our will in a different state over a decade ago, the lawyer's hourly rate was $400. We were in a high cost living place. This time we expected the fee would be at least one hundred dollars more than before. Wrong. the fancy law firm lawyer we were recommended charges $800 one hour consultation and the whole cost is an eye popping number. One more lawyer we were recommended is in our budget, but we're in a little far out of his practicing area, so it didn't work out either. We didn't have any issue to find a lawyer last time, so we just realized it is time and energy consuming to find a right lawyer.

I really appreciate you take time to response to my post and giving me needed information.
None of my comments precludes you from using a lawyer.
 

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