Would it be harrassment or not?

[FrustratedMommy]

What is the name of your state? MD & NH

I have a court order issued in the state of MD that allows me liberal phone contact with my daughter. Dad has custody, but my daughter resides with the grandparents (his parents). I am in the process of filing paperwork in the courts about this. They reside in Maryland, I reside in New Hampshire

Last night the grandmother warned me not to call her house again otherwise she would press harrassment charges against me. I call one time per night, at the same time each night.

Does she have a legal leg to stand on?

Would I be correct in NH having jurisdiction as far as her pressing the harrassment charges?


Thanks in advance!

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What is the name of your state? MD & NH

I have a court order issued in the state of MD that allows me liberal phone contact with my daughter. Dad has custody, but my daughter resides with the grandparents (his parents). I am in the process of filing paperwork in the courts about this. They reside in Maryland, I reside in New Hampshire

Filing what papers about what issue?

Last night the grandmother warned me not to call her house again otherwise she would press harrassment charges against me. I call one time per night, at the same time each night.

O.K.

Does she have a legal leg to stand on?

and to answer that we'd have to know the contents of the call and what problems your grandmother has with you.

Would I be correct in NH having jurisdiction as far as her pressing the harrassment charges?

no

Thanks in advance!

You're welcome

 

[FrustratedMommy]

and to answer that we'd have to know the contents of the call and what problems your grandmother has with you.

I am breathing? Honestly they do not know how to speak civilly. I don't know. The fact that I refuse to "go away". I wish I could give you a better answer than that unfortunately I cannot.

As far as the paperwork I am filing it is for a change of custody based on parental interference and the fact he has custody but is not taking care of the child.

 

[Whyte Noise]

BB, I'm going to jump in here because I have been a 3rd party to calls FM has made to her daughter at grandma's house.

Grandma started listening in to the calls FM made to her daughter. The court order says liberal phone contact. FM was calling her dughter every night. When G'ma made her presence known on the phone calls she said "I'm listening in because the DA and dad's attorney told me to." Bullcrap. She's listening in because she's nosey. FM e-mailed dad's attorney. Dad's attorney never told G'ma to listen in. So, to protect herself, FM has had me listening in as well.

A month ago, this child was telling FM how much she loves her, telling her about school work, about friends, how much she misses her, etc. Now, the phone calls for the past 2 weeks are...

FM: *dials phone*
G'ma picks up and answers
FM: Is she there?
G'ma: Hold on
FM's DD: DONT CALL HERE!! I DONT WANT TO TALK TO YOU!! QUIT TALKING TO MY TEACHERS!! STOP SENDING ME SAPPY SH*T!! (yes, this 10 year old child used the phrase "sappy sh*t to describe an e-mail FM sent telling her she loved her and missed her) THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME!! I DONT WANT TO TALK TO YOU!! YOU DONT THINK ABOUT ANYONE BUT YOURSELF!!!

And I typed in caps because this 10 year old child is yelling these things at FM on the phone. While her daughter is screaming at her, FM is interjecting with "I love you", "I miss you", etc. She's not engaging the child at all.

In a 2 week span, the child went from telling her "I love you Mommy" to the tirades she now displays. I do know this for a fact, because I have heard each phone call FM has made to her daughter not because I'm only hearing FM's side of the story and choose to believe her. I've heard both sides. Literally.

The child's actions started when FM sent a letter to the child's father advising him that G'ma is not a party to the custody order and should not be denying or interfering with her court ordered phone contact (which g'ma was doing at that time). After dad received this letter and talked to Mommy Dearest about it apparently, is when FM's daughter did a complete 180 and went from the "I love you mommy" normal phone calls to the screaming tirades.

Sometimes when FM calls, G'ma sees it's her on caller ID and lets the child pick up. All FM gets in is "Hi" before her daughter starts screaming at her. All the while her daughter is screaming, FM just interjects with "I love you"s and the like. Her daughter always winds up hanging up on her each phone call.

This is the content of FM's phone calls. I think you know me well enough to know that I'm not going to say something that isn't true or correct. She honestly doesn't engage G'ma on the phone, she doesn't engage her daughter's rantings or respond to them, just simply tells her she loves her throughout the call, before her daughter slams the phone down.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I am breathing? Honestly they do not know how to speak civilly. I don't know. The fact that I refuse to "go away". I wish I could give you a better answer than that unfortunately I cannot.

As far as the paperwork I am filing it is for a change of custody based on parental interference and the fact he has custody but is not taking care of the child.

The point of all this is we have no idea except for the specific answers I gave you because we don't know both sides of the situation.

What I can tell you is that parental interference is not going to go far based on the facts of your post. Your ex, from your own words, is NOT interfering with your rights. His parents are. So, you need to file against them.

 

[FrustratedMommy]

BB, I'm going to jump in here because I have been a 3rd party to calls FM has made to her daughter at grandma's house.

Grandma started listening in to the calls FM made to her daughter. The court order says liberal phone contact. FM was calling her dughter every night. When G'ma made her presence known on the phone calls she said "I'm listening in because the DA and dad's attorney told me to." Bullcrap. She's listening in because she's nosey. FM e-mailed dad's attorney. Dad's attorney never told G'ma to listen in. So, to protect herself, FM has had me listening in as well.

A month ago, this child was telling FM how much she loves her, telling her about school work, about friends, how much she misses her, etc. Now, the phone calls for the past 2 weeks are...

FM: *dials phone*
G'ma picks up and answers
FM: Is she there?
G'ma: Hold on
FM's DD: DONT CALL HERE!! I DONT WANT TO TALK TO YOU!! QUIT TALKING TO MY TEACHERS!! STOP SENDING ME SAPPY SH*T!! (yes, this 10 year old child used the phrase "sappy sh*t to describe an e-mail FM sent telling her she loved her and missed her) THIS IS A WASTE OF MY TIME!! I DONT WANT TO TALK TO YOU!! YOU DONT THINK ABOUT ANYONE BUT YOURSELF!!!

And I typed in caps because this 10 year old child is yelling these things at FM on the phone. While her daughter is screaming at her, FM is interjecting with "I love you", "I miss you", etc. She's not engaging the child at all.

In a 2 week span, the child went from telling her "I love you Mommy" to the tirades she now displays. I do know this for a fact, because I have heard each phone call FM has made to her daughter not because I'm only hearing FM's side of the story and choose to believe her. I've heard both sides. Literally.

The child's actions started when FM sent a letter to the child's father advising him that G'ma is not a party to the custody order and should not be denying or interfering with her court ordered phone contact (which g'ma was doing at that time). After dad received this letter and talked to Mommy Dearest about it apparently, is when FM's daughter did a complete 180 and went from the "I love you mommy" normal phone calls to the screaming tirades.

Sometimes when FM calls, G'ma sees it's her on caller ID and lets the child pick up. All FM gets in is "Hi" before her daughter starts screaming at her. All the while her daughter is screaming, FM just interjects with "I love you"s and the like. Her daughter always winds up hanging up on her each phone call.

This is the content of FM's phone calls. I think you know me well enough to know that I'm not going to say something that isn't true or correct. She honestly doesn't engage G'ma on the phone, she doesn't engage her daughter's rantings or respond to them, just simply tells her she loves her throughout the call, before her daughter slams the phone down.

What she said.

 

[Ohiogal]

The point of all this is we have no idea except for the specific answers I gave you because we don't know both sides of the situation.

What I can tell you is that parental interference is not going to go far based on the facts of your post. Your ex, from your own words, is NOT interfering with your rights. His parents are. So, you need to file against them.

BB,
If this state is like Ohio then she could file against dad. Dad is responsible for anyone on his time that interferes with mom's rights. Dad is supposed to make sure that mom has access to the child as specified in the order. In Ohio -- and granted they are not in Ohio but it may be similar -- if this were happening, dad would be responsible and would be seen as causing the interference. I have seen it happen in court that if the child is under the care of the CP (as in it is CPs time) if anyone disrupts NCPs relationship, it bites CP. It is a rough argument but it can be won.

 

[FrustratedMommy]

BB,
If this state is like Ohio then she could file against dad. Dad is responsible for anyone on his time that interferes with mom's rights. Dad is supposed to make sure that mom has access to the child as specified in the order. In Ohio -- and granted they are not in Ohio but it may be similar -- if this were happening, dad would be responsible and would be seen as causing the interference. I have seen it happen in court that if the child is under the care of the CP (as in it is CPs time) if anyone disrupts NCPs relationship, it bites CP. It is a rough argument but it can be won.

Yup and I would think witness's that have heard him condone his parents behavior would be key to winning that arguement.

However, I am curious if grandma would have a harrassment charge if I call tonight? Which state would have jurisdiction in an harrassment case? (I say NH as they would have jurisdiction over me not MD? but I could be wrong) Am I posting this question in the right place? lol.

Thank you again

 

[casa]

Yup and I would think witness's that have heard him condone his parents behavior would be key to winning that arguement.

However, I am curious if grandma would have a harrassment charge if I call tonight? Which state would have jurisdiction in an harrassment case? (I say NH as they would have jurisdiction over me not MD? but I could be wrong) Am I posting this question in the right place? lol.

Thank you again

When you modify the order....lose the "liberal phone contact" verbiage & ask the court designate times/days specifically for phone calls.

Problem with you filing interference & the same problem with Gma filing harassment....is what is "liberal"?? In who's opinion is once daily "liberal"?? I suspect neither of you will get very far & wind up wasting time and money.

Concentrate on modifying the order since the child isn't living with the CP...she's living with the Grandparents.

 

[Whyte Noise]

When you modify the order....lose the "liberal phone contact" verbiage & ask the court designate times/days specifically for phone calls.

Problem with you filing interference & the same problem with Gma filing harassment....is what is "liberal"?? In who's opinion is once daily "liberal"?? I suspect neither of you will get very far & wind up wasting time and money.

Concentrate on modifying the order since the child isn't living with the CP...she's living with the Grandparents.

The wording of the court order isn't what's in question. That's being addressed in the modification motion.

The question is.... would G'ma have grounds to file for harassment if FM calls her daughter tonight? FM has called her daughter daily since 2000 (no matter if she lived with dad or G'ma) and it's not been a problem up until now. Since FM is "fighting back" so to speak, they don't like it. There is a status quo on what all parties have considered "liberal" (which was daily) until now, when FM sent that letter to her ex about G'ma's interference. Phone records and a journal prove this pattern of calling daily with no problem for 6 years.

I should also add that in the time I've been a party to the phone calls, once daily was acceptable, up until last night.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

O.K. first of all, the grandmother 'listening in' on the phone calls will go about as far as another party on FM's side listening in on the calls.

BOTH are illegal practices and needs to be stopped NOW.

Second, the CP has the right to designate a child care provider, regardless of whether or not it is family. What that provider does on her own time and volition is not actionable against the CP unless notice of the violations have been given to CP and no action has been taken.

And don't tell me you "TOLD" him about it. Notify him by certified mail (RRR) regarding the interference and inform him that if it continues, charges will be filed against the grandmother and a petition for change of custody will also be filed.

Next, the child cannot give 'informed consent' therefore, her listening in on the calls is illegal and you should speak with the local district attorney about filing criminal charges against granny.

Md. Code Ann., Courts and Judicial Proceedings § 10-402: It is a felony to intercept a wire, oral or electronic communication unless all parties to the communication have consented. But all-party consent will not make the recording legal if there is a criminal or tortious purpose behind it.

Disclosing the contents of intercepted communications with reason to know they were obtained unlawfully is a crime as well.

Violations of the law are felonies punishable by imprisonment for not more than five years and a fine of not more than $10,000. Civil liability for violations can include the greater of actual damages, $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, along with punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs. To recover civil damages, however, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant knew it was illegal to tape the communication without consent from all participants. Md. Code Ann., Courts and Judicial Proceedings § 10-410.

Lastly, read Lapides v. Trabbic

You won't like the case law in Maryland.

 

[casa]

The wording of the court order isn't what's in question. That's being addressed in the modification motion.

The question is.... would G'ma have grounds to file for harassment if FM calls her daughter tonight? FM has called her daughter daily since 2000 (no matter if she lived with dad or G'ma) and it's not been a problem up until now. Since FM is "fighting back" so to speak, they don't like it. There is a status quo on what all parties have considered "liberal" (which was daily) until now, when FM sent that letter to her ex about G'ma's interference. Phone records and a journal prove this pattern of calling daily with no problem for 6 years.

The problem with "liberal" and "reasonable" wording is that when push comes to shove...one party must prove that the other party wasn't "liberal" or "reasonable"...Unlike a designated time/day, which can be followed or clearly be Contempt.

This is going to be a minor issue for Mom...The bigger issue will be focusing on custody/visitation. Then, when that is being determined the Gma's refusal to allow what was "status quo" will be a factor to determine.

The phone threats of harrassment can end up "he said- she said"...and since I am not specific on OPs states eavesdropping/communications laws, I'm not entirely sure that you listening in is legal.

All that aside~ I'll tell ya that calling every night while the daughter is being coerced to behave/talk this way to Mom....only 'cements' the 'habit' of her reacting that way. ie; The less it happens~ the less 'used' to that behavior the child will become. It may help diffuse the situation to decrease calls to e/o evening.

My 2c. Take or Toss. Sometimes it's more about the best way to handle a situation than who's "Right" (And it's fairly obvious that Dad/Gma are wrong here)

 

[casa]

O.K. first of all, the grandmother 'listening in' on the phone calls will go about as far as another party on FM's side listening in on the calls.

BOTH are illegal practices and needs to be stopped NOW.

Second, the CP has the right to designate a child care provider, regardless of whether or not it is family. What that provider does on her own time and volition is not actionable against the CP unless notice of the violations have been given to CP and no action has been taken.

And don't tell me you "TOLD" him about it. Notify him by certified mail (RRR) regarding the interference and inform him that if it continues, charges will be filed against the grandmother and a petition for change of custody will also be filed.

Next, the child cannot give 'informed consent' therefore, her listening in on the calls is illegal and you should speak with the local district attorney about filing criminal charges against granny.

Md. Code Ann., Courts and Judicial Proceedings § 10-402: It is a felony to intercept a wire, oral or electronic communication unless all parties to the communication have consented. But all-party consent will not make the recording legal if there is a criminal or tortious purpose behind it.

Disclosing the contents of intercepted communications with reason to know they were obtained unlawfully is a crime as well.

Violations of the law are felonies punishable by imprisonment for not more than five years and a fine of not more than $10,000. Civil liability for violations can include the greater of actual damages, $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, along with punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs. To recover civil damages, however, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant knew it was illegal to tape the communication without consent from all participants. Md. Code Ann., Courts and Judicial Proceedings § 10-410.

Lastly, read Lapides v. Trabbic

You won't like the case law in Maryland.

We were typing at the same time....Thank You for clearing that up~ I was concerned with the telephone call situation also.

 

[Whyte Noise]

Second, the CP has the right to designate a child care provider, regardless of whether or not it is family. What that provider does on her own time and volition is not actionable against the CP unless notice of the violations have been given to CP and no action has been taken.

Grandma isn't a child care provider. Grandma is who the child is living with, and has been living with since January. Father takes the child for a few months, then the child goes back to grandma. Dad lives in WV, Grandma and child live in MD.

FM did notify dad, in writing, and CC'd his attorney on the correspondence as well. This is when all the BS started... after FM notified him, in writing, that Grandma's interference would not be tolerated and any further interference would be grounds for legal action.

 

[Whyte Noise]

The phone calls aren't being "intercepted" (recorded). I'm a party to the phone calls, as is G'ma. The statute above applies to recording phone calls:

"It is a felony to intercept a wire, oral or electronic communication unless all parties to the communication have consented. But all-party consent will not make the recording legal if there is a criminal or tortious purpose behind it."

"To recover civil damages, however, a plaintiff must prove that the defendant knew it was illegal to tape the communication without consent from all participants. Md. Code Ann., Courts and Judicial Proceedings § 10-410."

Notice the bolded words.

Again, the calls are not being recorded or taped. There are 4 parties to the conversation, FM, her daughter, G'ma and myself.