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  1. #16
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    Oct 2017
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    Update. So I ended up taking the repayment check i had put in the mailbox out and instead sent an appeal letter. I also spoke with 2 people on the phone and they told me I had a good chance of at least getting the $90.00 charge taken off. I am awaiting the phone hearing and I wil let everyone know the outcome. to clear it up

    I was working fulltime----I put my 2 weeks notice in----I was offered part time work since they wanted me to stay and I also wanted to stay-----I came up with a schedule---They disapproved---They said work day XXX and Day XXX If you are not willing to work these days than it will not work.---I said it will not work. End


  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    California
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    71,240
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliveonearth View Post
    I was working fulltime----I put my 2 weeks notice in----I was offered part time work since they wanted me to stay and I also wanted to stay-----I came up with a schedule---They disapproved---They said work day XXX and Day XXX If you are not willing to work these days than it will not work.---I said it will not work. End
    In other words, you refused to work the schedule they offered. You quit without good cause. You lose.


  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,173
    Just because it may not have been determined fraud, that doesn't mean you don't have an overpayment.

    If you are not determined to be eligible for the week of unemployment you drew, then you will have been overpaid. If you did file the claim and were approved, and then were determined by decision not to have been eligible for that week you drew the $90, then it is a non-fraud overpayment. That means you drew it while approved, with no intent to commit fraud, and were determined not to be approved later by decision.

    But I'm genuinely confused. When you file a claim for benefits, there has to be a decision either granting benefits or denying benefits issued before you receive anything. When you filed this claim, it sounds like you certified for a waiting week and then for one week which was paid, and then stopped drawing because you went on to the new job where you were going anyhow, the reason you originally gave notice?

    If so, then after they were contacted, the old company must have protested the approval of the claim, said you had voluntarily quit the job, and another decision was issued saying you were NOT eligible for benefits. This would've had to happen before you could have received something from the fraud division saying your were overpaid.

    Is THAT the letter you received when you first came on here? If so, then yes, definitely, you'd need to appeal that decision to deny benefits. You have a so so chance of getting the decision overturned and having that $90 not be called an overpayment. I think careful reading of the letter you received that brought you here in the first place may show it's a decision letter, not something from the fraud unit. It doesn't sound to me like you are dealing with the fraud unit, it sounds like this is still an appeals issue, and as such, you need to do what the people in the unemployment system tell you to do. You file an appeal of the decision denying benefits.

    They will later, at some point, after a hearing, determine that you either were or were not eligible for that $90 at the time you drew it. It has already happened. No amount of us dickering about it here is going to help. If you are determined to have been ineligible at the time you received it, you'll be overpaid $90. If not, you'll be able to keep your $90. At no point will you have been committing fraud. I think you were just badly frightened by the language on the decision letter you received and over reacted a bit.


    Last edited by commentator; 10-26-2017 at 04:00 PM.
  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by commentator View Post
    Just because it may not have been determined fraud, that doesn't mean you don't have an overpayment.

    If you are not determined to be eligible for the week of unemployment you drew, then you will have been overpaid. If you did file the claim and were approved, and then were determined by decision not to have been eligible for that week you drew the $90, then it is a non-fraud overpayment. That means you drew it while approved, with no intent to commit fraud, and were determined not to be approved later by decision.

    But I'm genuinely confused. When you file a claim for benefits, there has to be a decision either granting benefits or denying benefits issued before you receive anything. When you filed this claim, it sounds like you certified for a waiting week and then for one week which was paid, and then stopped drawing because you went on to the new job where you were going anyhow, the reason you originally gave notice?

    If so, then after they were contacted, the old company must have protested the approval of the claim, said you had voluntarily quit the job, and another decision was issued saying you were NOT eligible for benefits. This would've had to happen before you could have received something from the fraud division saying your were overpaid.

    Is THAT the letter you received when you first came on here? If so, then yes, definitely, you'd need to appeal that decision to deny benefits. You have a so so chance of getting the decision overturned and having that $90 not be called an overpayment. I think careful reading of the letter you received that brought you here in the first place may show it's a decision letter, not something from the fraud unit. It doesn't sound to me like you are dealing with the fraud unit, it sounds like this is still an appeals issue, and as such, you need to do what the people in the unemployment system tell you to do. You file an appeal of the decision denying benefits.

    They will later, at some point, after a hearing, determine that you either were or were not eligible for that $90 at the time you drew it. It has already happened. No amount of us dickering about it here is going to help. If you are determined to have been ineligible at the time you received it, you'll be overpaid $90. If not, you'll be able to keep your $90. At no point will you have been committing fraud. I think you were just badly frightened by the language on the decision letter you received and over reacted a bit.
    I think you misunderstood me or i didn't explain it correctly and im sorry. I got a letter of determination stating that I committed fraud or misrepresentation. the letter goes on to say i voluntarily quit and that I need to pay back the $615 i was issued in unemployment benefits PLUS a penalty of $90.00 for supposedly "lieing" Which i did not.


  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    58,341
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliveonearth View Post
    I think you misunderstood me or i didn't explain it correctly and im sorry. I got a letter of determination stating that I committed fraud or misrepresentation. the letter goes on to say i voluntarily quit and that I need to pay back the $615 i was issued in unemployment benefits PLUS a penalty of $90.00 for supposedly "lieing" Which i did not.
    Actually you did lie. Because you did voluntarily quit.


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  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,173
    So you have already had a decision denying benefits, and you have now received a determination from the fraud unit, saying that you are determined to be overpaid $615, plus a $90 penalty because it is a fraud overpayment. So the overpayment decision is what you are wanting to appeal, specifically the $90 penalty, correct? You don't feel you were denied the benefits in error, that appeal window is already closed, but you did receive unemployment insurance benefits after giving notice and then refusing to work the hours and/or schedule during your notice period that you were offered by the employer.

    Okay, you do have an appeal, that you perhaps did not understand that you were not going to be eligible if there was suitable work available for you offered by the employer which you refused. But how do you get around that question on the weekly certification, "Have you refused work, been offered any work, etc. this week?" Because from my reading, they offered you some work, but it was work that was part time, wasn't your usual schedule, or something that made it something you didn't want to do.

    If you had told the unemployment system that on the weekly certification, that would have stopped the claim at that point, and they'd have done fact finding and at that point there would've been a decision made about the suitability of the work you refused, which does sound a bit unsuitable. But you didn't mention it, and that is the point at which you are believed to have committed actual fraud by lying to them. So I would say that was the false statement they are saying you made to receive benefits, it was a sin of omission, failure to admit you'd been offered work during the week you were filing for, and what will be coming up as either fraud or non fraud in the appeal of the overpayment.

    Did you report that you had been offered that part time work? If not, then you pretty much didn't answer the certification question truthfully. You can say you "didn't understand' that you were supposed to report that offer of work, but the claimant is pretty much obligated to answer the certification questions correctly every week they file, and "I didn't understand that was what the question was asking about " usually doesn't work too well. But it's worth the appeal, just to pull things out longer.

    Don't get in such a tizzy about the "fraud" issue. The unemployment system processes thousands and thousands of minor fraud things a year. Only the most egregious ones, the people who give them the most trouble, ever end up being prosecuted for fraud, simply because they don't have the time or resources to prosecute something this minor. They let you pay the money back, pay a penalty, and there's nothing else ever comes of it. You don't have this on a record anywhere else, its a closed agency system, you are not branded as a lawbreaker, you just got hit with a small penalty and had to pay back some unemployment insurance.


  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by commentator View Post
    So you have already had a decision denying benefits, and you have now received a determination from the fraud unit, saying that you are determined to be overpaid $615, plus a $90 penalty because it is a fraud overpayment. So the overpayment decision is what you are wanting to appeal, specifically the $90 penalty, correct? You don't feel you were denied the benefits in error, that appeal window is already closed, but you did receive unemployment insurance benefits after giving notice and then refusing to work the hours and/or schedule during your notice period that you were offered by the employer.

    Okay, you do have an appeal, that you perhaps did not understand that you were not going to be eligible if there was suitable work available for you offered by the employer which you refused. But how do you get around that question on the weekly certification, "Have you refused work, been offered any work, etc. this week?" Because from my reading, they offered you some work, but it was work that was part time, wasn't your usual schedule, or something that made it something you didn't want to do.

    If you had told the unemployment system that on the weekly certification, that would have stopped the claim at that point, and they'd have done fact finding and at that point there would've been a decision made about the suitability of the work you refused, which does sound a bit unsuitable. But you didn't mention it, and that is the point at which you are believed to have committed actual fraud by lying to them. So I would say that was the false statement they are saying you made to receive benefits, it was a sin of omission, failure to admit you'd been offered work during the week you were filing for, and what will be coming up as either fraud or non fraud in the appeal of the overpayment.

    Did you report that you had been offered that part time work? If not, then you pretty much didn't answer the certification question truthfully. You can say you "didn't understand' that you were supposed to report that offer of work, but the claimant is pretty much obligated to answer the certification questions correctly every week they file, and "I didn't understand that was what the question was asking about " usually doesn't work too well. But it's worth the appeal, just to pull things out longer.

    Don't get in such a tizzy about the "fraud" issue. The unemployment system processes thousands and thousands of minor fraud things a year. Only the most egregious ones, the people who give them the most trouble, ever end up being prosecuted for fraud, simply because they don't have the time or resources to prosecute something this minor. They let you pay the money back, pay a penalty, and there's nothing else ever comes of it. You don't have this on a record anywhere else, its a closed agency system, you are not branded as a lawbreaker, you just got hit with a small penalty and had to pay back some unemployment insurance.
    Yeah I guess im blowing it out of proportion; Ill see how the appeal goes and ill let you guys know. Thanks.


  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    10
    Update*************************

    I had the hearing. They took the fraud off saying it was not intentional but since I did not have a valid reason for quitting i had to pay amount back which is fine. Thanks for everyones help.


    Last edited by m martin; 11-14-2017 at 06:03 PM.
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