FENCE AND WATER

[Wendy217]

What is the name of your state? Maryland

My new neighbor recently bought the old land/new built house next to me and has done extensive landscaping in their backyard. They were made aware that my wood fence is 6" in on my property per multiple surveys. The previous neighbor let me pull the chain link fence but I was NOT allowed to put my fence on the property line. The licensed fence co. put installed it on my property. The new people now have the use of that land and subsequently landscaped right up to my fence. I approached the neighbor last night and asked to keep his dirt off my fence so it will last longer per my landscaper's instructions. He blew up and has no intention of removing the dirt as it will keep flowing that direction due to his landscape. I told him that we both benefit from this fence and let's make sure to keep it in top condition. It was called a good neighbor fence. Everyone has a pretty side. When we were looking at this issue, he showed me the new river rock they just installed which is pushing mulch and dirt onto my fence. He then said that they are now piping their water runoff underneath these rocks too. This is why my landscaper said there was too much dirt on my fence. It goes directly onto my property where it empties onto my wood fence and then into my shed. Since they are "using" the my fence and the other neighbor's fence as two of their sides, they only had to replace one in the back of the yard. This one is now on my little 6" swath. I said I think their fence post is covering up my property stake. He freaked out! I said well, I may just pull my fence down. I don't need it at all. They need it as they have a dog and a child. The point is when I sell the house, I want that land as part of the package and I don't want my old wood shed to float away. This land is crazy valuable. His house is in the millions, mine not so much but still really nice. Thanks.

 

[justalayman]

Well, it’s up to you what you want to do. If you wish to pull the fence, go ahead but I suspect that is not what you want as an ultimate goal.

Given the neighbor has already taken a stand I suspect you’re already beyond discussion. That generally means involving the courts. Unless you wish to take this on yourself I suggest finding an attorney to represent you.

 

[HRZ]

I think you both may have ventured into a different area of MD common law ...in general the uphill landowner must maintain the natural water runoff ..he is not supposed to alter the flow by his grading and landscaping so as to cause you problems ....piping it to your land might be taboo

As the downhill landowner you are not supposed to block the natural flow ..which if your fence runs to the ground it may be doing . As to the prior natural flow anyway....

your version of story suggests new water runoff problem create by uphill owner ...but gather your facts and pick your points with care

 

[Wendy217]

The fence was installed with a 2 inch gap at the bottom which has now been closed by the neighbor due to the runoff etc. It was installed by one of the best fence companies in the DC Metro area. I simply asked him to clean off the dirt to preserve the fence that he uses too. He literally got down on his hands and knees and started digging with his fingers to find the gap! He also kept complaining about the 50k he spent on his landscaping job. Ha! Totally crazy. He was literally seeing red while thinking of all the green he spent So, after mulling it over, I thought of this solution... I would just pull the back two fence panels so I could take care of my property. He could say nothing as I OWN the fence. I wouldn't see it from my house but HE certainly would see it from his house. I forgot to mention that when they moved in, they cut all the trees down on their property that DID soak up water and brought in several tons of fill dirt. They raised their yard a bit which only makes the situation worse for me. What do you think of pulling two panels down and maybe laying bricks etc. where the water comes over?

 

[justalayman]

Any dirt piled against your fence will retain moisture and hasten the degradation of the wood. It doesn’t have to have water channeled to it. It’s a natural condition

 

[HRZ]

Me, Id take lots of pictures of his altered yard countour and dirt along fence ...and remove any of my fence that suited my desires. ...what you do to channel his water after it enters your lands is up to you . . If he removed several trees hat might be the tipping point as to having altered the natural runoff ...but it may be an expensive point to prove in court with professional witnesses etc ...the two of you might better invest in drains appropriate to the lands in question.

 

[Wendy217]

I am not sure what approach I will take. I called my fence company and they said the first thing that will rot on the fence are the posts--not the slats. She said they should be clear of debris because it will rot the slats. The simple request to stop the flow of dirt to my fence was met with hostility. If I pull the fence on that end of my yard, I can control the water entering my property better. I really don't want to have to replace my shed too. The shed is the more important to me than the fence.

 

[HRZ]

if the flow of water is due to neighbors altering of ground contours or removal of natural prior trees etc. you may need to be a bit more forceful about he must restore natural flow ....but it might be simpler to just pull your fence for now, leave some sort of rot proof poles in holes to preserve location and channel the water on your side away from shed ....but I'd have good photo records

 

[Wendy217]

Hi, I am back to report that after a rainfall recently, I literally had a river running through my backyard. When I posted before, I did not realize how much the neighbors had altered the property. The water moves VERY fast now--straight to my yard right into a outbuilding. One side of their property was raised and the other side was lowered right to my property. The other neighbor has a huge water back up on her property because they blocked it off of theirs. Me, I have all of their water now. It's worse than I knew. So, both neighbors have issues with these new people and their perfect yard. They want no water but do not care how their work impacts all of us.

 

[Zigner]

It's definitely time to talk to an attorney.

 

[xylene]

You'll need a survey and an engineer too.

 

[FarmerJ]

Also call your city to learn if it has spelled out issues related to drainage and landscaping type changes that force water to drain onto neighboring parcels ( the city I used to live in had a ordinance that said you couldn't make changes like say install a new driveway on your property that forced water to drain onto another property so in my case because of drainage problems with the lot next to mine which was lower the asphalt company had to pitch the driveway to drain to the alley, BUT the city said I did not have to do anything with any other area of the lot regarding its drainage IF I wasn't making any changes , ( so that next spring the melt came hard and fast , we had a lot of snow and ice in the alley and because the city would not mud jack the concrete sections that were too low and had sank that melting snow would not drain down the alley and spilled into what was left of the graveled parking area I had and continued on to the neighbor to my west whose lot was lower, she yelled and was all angry at us even though I Helped her pump out her basement she wanted to sue me etc and I finally told her Its not my fault , the driveway was installed correctly and that doesn't change the fact that your lot is lower than mine ( her own garage was up a bit higher than her yard too. So she chose to install French ditch drainpipe and installed it right up to the lot line of the lot to her west ( which had a condemned house on it that was torn down and eventually a newer house was put in and that French ditch likely still drained) So to make my long story short if your city has addressed drainage in its ordinances perhaps that may be the best way to go since they really can make him correct it.

 

[Wendy217]

I knocked on the neighbor's door and asked her to redirect the runoff into my trench BEHIND the building. She said, No! She is going to leave it the way it is and just add some gravel. I told her this wouldn't work and she needs to redirect the flow. The end of the conversation went like this, "Well, I guess I will build a wall and force the water back to you--just like YOU did up your hill." She said do what you need to do. I said you will have a flooded yard. This am the following happened: I have called an attorney and she said to call our county first. She said to put in a CODE complaint. I did. We will see what happens now. I suppose it is a step by step process.

 

[Wendy217]

It just dawned on me...I will bet their landscaper told them to direct their run off to me because I ALREADY had a trench built to carry away the water! They figured they could use it as if it were on their property. They knew their water would go into my trench and be carried away. It's so much water now that it's overflowing into my yard. I think what I will do if the county can't/won't help is pull the fence and build a large berm where the fence USED to be. It's on my property anyway and I will leave a small opening so I can't be told I am blocking the water. I will just shift it down the berm to my trench in the back. I will have two berms now. One to stop their water and one to stop any overflow. I may or may not put the fence back.

 

[Wendy217]

In two days, the county inspector will be here. Is there anything special I should know before I show him all of the issues? Thanks.