Fishy vehicle title.

[Caligula7]

CA.
I'm looking at a California motorcycle. Seller is in possession of a clean title - no liens, not salvage, but not in his name. Original (apparently) owner released vehicle, per the title, to another guy. This guy did not register the bike. He then traded it with the current seller who also did not register it. Seller, person #3, has a bill of sale signed by guy #2 and himself.

So, there is person #1, person #2, person #3, and person #4 - me. Bill of sale is hand written on a scrap of paper. Anyone could have written it. I understand the DMV do not question these things and assume nothing underhand is occurring.

How best to proceed? Should I proceed? Would you proceed?

DMV tell me I can put the bike in my name with these two pieces of paper and by paying the necessary back-fee, transfer fees (x 3) and sales tax.

Specifically....... - what are the pitfalls? ?? Suppose I register the bike to me. What could potentially happen after the fact? Several scenarios come to mind - a collusion between guy #2 and #3, bike suddenly gets reported as stolen, seller stole the bike and the title??? .... who knows? Just because a vehicle is not reported as stolen doesn't mean it isn't stolen. Why would seller be so reluctant to register in his name, then sell?

Thanks for any help.

 

[LdiJ]

CA.
I'm looking at a California motorcycle. Seller is in possession of a clean title - no liens, not salvage, but not in his name. Original (apparently) owner released vehicle, per the title, to another guy. This guy did not register the bike. He then traded it with the current seller who also did not register it. Seller, person #3, has a bill of sale signed by guy #2 and himself.

So, there is person #1, person #2, person #3, and person #4 - me. Bill of sale is hand written on a scrap of paper. Anyone could have written it. I understand the DMV do not question these things and assume nothing underhand is occurring.

How best to proceed? Should I proceed? Would you proceed?

DMV tell me I can put the bike in my name with these two pieces of paper and by paying the necessary back-fee, transfer fees (x 3) and sales tax.

Specifically....... - what are the pitfalls? ?? Suppose I register the bike to me. What could potentially happen after the fact? Several scenarios come to mind - a collusion between guy #2 and #3, bike suddenly gets reported as stolen, seller stole the bike and the title??? .... who knows? Just because a vehicle is not reported as stolen doesn't mean it isn't stolen. Why would seller be so reluctant to register in his name, then sell?

Thanks for any help.

I would never purchase a vehicle under those circumstances. Find another bike to buy.

 

[adjusterjack]

Agree. It's called title jumping and it's illegal even if the DMV turns a blind eye to it.

Each successive owner was supposed to retitle the bike in his own name.

The worst case scenario is that somebody comes forward with proof of ownership and claims the bike. Then you lose the bike and your money and good luck going back after the person you got it from.

Walk away from the deal no matter how attractive it is.

 

[Caligula7]

Thanks! Just what I wanted to hear. One last question: Suppose the seller registers the bike in his name? Then safe to buy, or no?

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks! Just what I wanted to hear. One last question: Suppose the seller registers the bike in his name? Then safe to buy, or no?

It would be a little safer, yes. It still wouldn't be entirely safe due to the previous jump but it would definitely be safer.

 

[adjusterjack]

Thanks! Just what I wanted to hear. One last question: Suppose the seller registers the bike in his name? Then safe to buy, or no?

Here's a lesson you should affix to the inside of your eyelids as a constant reminder for the rest of your life.

Registration and title are two different things.

It's title (an official record of ownership) that counts.

Here are some of the reasons that people engage in title jumping:

• To avoid paying taxes and fees associated with titling a vehicle. This includes sales tax, registration fees, and titling costs that can quickly add up.
• To sell vehicles without holding a dealer license. In many states, you must register as a dealer if you sell over a certain number of cars per year. Title jumping enables illegally operating without a dealer license.
• To hide issues with a vehicle from the buyer. Branded titles like “salvage” or “flood damage” may not appear until the title is transferred. An open title allows hiding problems.
• To make a quick profit reselling vehicles without a traceable paper trail.

Consequences to buyer:

• Difficulty registering the vehicle – Since the title is still under a previous owner’s name, registering the car with the DMV in your name can be problematic.
• Issues with locating the seller – With no seller information on the title, tracking them down to fix problems becomes nearly impossible in some cases.
• Stuck with a salvaged or flood car – Title brands like “salvage” or “flood damage” may not appear until the next title transfer. An open title can hide this from buyers.
• The Wrong person incurs fines or violations – Without proper transfer documentation, previous owners may still face consequences like parking tickets.

Additionally, an open title with no seller information provides no records proving you actually bought the vehicle. That’s problematic if the car is found to be stolen or has other serious issues.

Understanding Title Jumping: Risks And How To Avoid It When Buying Or Selling Cars - Autohitch

 

[Zigner]

Registration and title are two different things.

It's title (an official record of ownership) that counts.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying, but I do want to comment on this. While it is true that registration and title are two different things, here in CA (and probably other states too, but I have no first-hand knowledge), the person(s) on the registration card is also the person(s) who the vehicle is titled to. If someone registers a car in their name(s), that means they transferred the title as a part of that process.

 

[Caligula7]

Thanks for the replies - very much appreciated. Yes, by 'registers in his name', I did mean to say 'suppose he has a new title in his name'. Regardless, as pointed out, the shady history could create problems for any new buyer. This though must be true for any used vehicle purchase when the title is apparently 'clean' and in the seller's name, so what is a buyer to do? The buyer is unaware of any title skipping history.

...... In reading the Autohitch article, I see more clearly now what a buyer is to do.

 

[adjusterjack]

This though must be true for any used vehicle purchase when the title is apparently 'clean' and in the seller's name, so what is a buyer to do? The buyer is unaware of any title skipping history.

I have bought and sold many cars in the past 50 years and never had a problem with a title where the person selling it to me was the same person on the title. These days there are ways to look up a car's or bike's title history on line. Carfax is one of the better ways but it costs $40. There are other, less costly, sources, some are even free. The information all comes from the same place but is packaged differently.