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How to get POA revoked by someone other than principal

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isis297

Member
What is the name of your state? NY

Friend's grandmother has dementia and has been declining. She was in the hospital with hallucinations recently. The doctor said she needed to stay in the hospital. The uncle who has POA called and talked to the case manager saying the doctor was exaggerating and that she is independent. She isn't... she doesn't cook... food is brought to her by family that is not POA, she doesn't shower, and the place she lives in is not safe. They sent her home because they believed him. This morning she set fire to her toaster and hot plate by setting the toaster on one of the burners. The uncle laughed and said he'll get her a new toaster.

Is it possible to get POA taken away from somebody when the person who gave it is not of sound mind?
 


Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
The POA becomes ineffective if the principal (the grandmother) becomes legally incompetent unless it is a durable power of attorney. One would have to read the POA document to see what kind it is and exactly what powers the agent (the uncle) was given. That matters because whether its a durable power of attorney affects what would have to be done. If it's not a durable power of attorney the POA is already invalid and someone will need to file an action in court to declare her legally incompetent and appoint a guardian/conservator for her. If it's a durable power of attorney an action would have to be brought in court to declare that the uncle is failing in his fiduciary duties and terminate the power of attorney, find that she's legally incompetent, and appoint a guardian for her. This won't be cheap to do, especially if the uncle puts up a fight. At the very least there's going to be a cost for an expert to prepare a report and testify as to her level of competence, the court filing fees, and the fees and costs for an attorney. An attorney would be essential here as it is the grandmother's interests that are at stake, and the attorney would be representing her, not the person paying the legal bills. Only an attorney may represent a person other than themselves in legal matters. The first step would be for the family member interested in the role of guardian to consult a family law attorney.
 

commentator

Senior Member
This person, (which of course, we are doing this speculatively third or fourth hand here anyhow) but this concerned person you are asking on behalf of, we assume it is your friend's father, needs to think about what the goal is here. Okay, this is not going to last very long, no matter what happens. It is very unlikely that the social worker was convinced by the uncle that the doctor was wrong, that his sister was okay to go home. Things just don't happen that way. Doctors do not get overridden by social workers based on what somebody told them.

Possibly other people were involved who wanted this lady sent immediately to a facility. It was not her wish, and going back homewas supported by her brother who does have power of attorney. She went back home, and there was some sort of kitchen fire. The uncle who has power of attorney took this lightly, while other family members immediately jumped on this as evidence she should be gathered up and put in a care facility. I suspect very strongly this would be very much against her wishes and that she is still quite verbal and able to express those wishes.

It would create a hellish family rift if the other brother/sister/family members who thinks she needs immediate placement were to retain an attorney, move to have decision making power taken from her brother, and try to have her declared incompetent, and drag her kicking and screaming into a facility.

While there is disagreement about what SHOULD happen, it doesn't sound as though this uncle is trying to take advantage of his sister. It just sounds like some opinions of other family members differ. This is very common and it is SO VERY easy to be a sideline referee. I suspect that this woman selected this particular brother for the very reason that he would be the one most likely to listen to her wishes.

Dementia is not an all or nothing, "once they've got it, they're gone" condition. It is something that comes on gradually and sometimes is made worse by fatigue, infections, etc. and then when these things are taken care of, the person is back to being more cognizant and competent for a time. This lady may not have much more time left of being on her own, and she may end up at any time having a fall, an accident, or a health crisis that will end all discussion. So the idea of going out and getting an attorney, going through the steps to remove this guardian, having the person declared incompetent, moving her into a facility, assuming control of her care and finances, would be a massive and time consuming process that likely does not need to happen.

As long as the lines of communication between the brothers and sisters is kept open, and they are working together, maybe the best possible level of care for her will become evident pretty quickly. Make sure, those of you who are providing food and care, that this brother who has power of attorney is the one who has to see and interact with her regularly, be the one who has to bring in the food or hire someone to bring it in, make sure you are not just taking on all the responsibility and griping behind his back so he could legitimately say, "I wasn't aware she was this bad!" Don't make it easy for him to keep allowing her to stay alone if she truly should not be without care. Cooperative action between the family members would be so much better than a big lawsuit at this late point. Best wishes in this situation, it is a hard one for the lady and her brother and all the other family members. I do hope this works itself out, as I have said, with eldercare, its usually pretty quick.
 
Last edited:

LdiJ

Senior Member
This person, (which of course, we are doing this speculatively third or fourth hand here anyhow) but this concerned person you are asking on behalf of, we assume it is your friend's father, needs to think about what the goal is here. Okay, this is not going to last very long, no matter what happens. It is very unlikely that the social worker was convinced by the uncle that the doctor was wrong, that his sister was okay to go home. Things just don't happen that way. Doctors do not get overridden by social workers based on what somebody told them.
One would think that was the case, but I have actually seen it happen out in the real world. The circumstance where I saw it happen was pretty similar to this one. The mother had dementia and cancer and needed to be in the hospital according to the doctors but the mother complained so much to the social worker that she went ahead and sent her home anyway. It was a real mess because she really could not live alone.

Possibly other people were involved who wanted this lady sent immediately to a facility. It was not her wish, and going back homewas supported by her brother who does have power of attorney. She went back home, and there was some sort of kitchen fire. The uncle who has power of attorney took this lightly, while other family members immediately jumped on this as evidence she should be gathered up and put in a care facility. I suspect very strongly this would be very much against her wishes and that she is still quite verbal and able to express those wishes.
It would create a hellish family rift if the other brother/sister/family members who thinks she needs immediate placement were to retain an attorney, move to have decision making power taken from her brother, and try to have her declared incompetent, and drag her kicking and screaming into a facility.

While there is disagreement about what SHOULD happen, it doesn't sound as though this uncle is trying to take advantage of his sister. It just sounds like some opinions of other family members differ. This is very common and it is SO VERY easy to be a sideline referee. I suspect that this woman selected this particular brother for the very reason that he would be the one most likely to listen to her wishes.
I agree that it doesn't sound like he is trying to take advantage of his sister, but it does sound a bit to me like he really doesn't want to make the hard decisions either.

Dementia is not an all or nothing, "once they've got it, they're gone" condition. It is something that comes on gradually and sometimes is made worse by fatigue, infections, etc. and then when these things are taken care of, the person is back to being more cognizant and competent for a time. This lady may not have much more time left of being on her own, and she may end up at any time having a fall, an accident, or a health crisis that will end all discussion. So the idea of going out and getting an attorney, going through the steps to remove this guardian, having the person declared incompetent, moving her into a facility, assuming control of her care and finances, would be a massive and time consuming process that likely does not need to happen.
You are making the assumption that it is not already past that time.

As long as the lines of communication between the brothers and sisters is kept open, and they are working together, maybe the best possible level of care for her will become evident pretty quickly. Make sure, those of you who are providing food and care, that this brother who has power of attorney is the one who has to see and interact with her regularly, be the one who has to bring in the food or hire someone to bring it in, make sure you are not just taking on all the responsibility and griping behind his back so he could legitimately say, "I wasn't aware she was this bad!" Don't make it easy for him to keep allowing her to stay alone if she truly should not be without care. Cooperative action between the family members would be so much better than a big lawsuit at this late point. Best wishes in this situation, it is a hard one for the lady and her brother and all the other family members. I do hope this works itself out, as I have said, with eldercare, its usually pretty quick.
I highly agree with this part.
 

commentator

Senior Member
I hear what you're saying. But if it is already past the time she shouldn't be alone, then these people are enabling this situation by bringing the food, providing supervision, etc. while keeping on saying she needs to be out of there and it's all the brother's fault. What they have to do is have a "come to Jesus" with their brother in which they refuse to provide the assistance that makes it possible for her to survive alone. If they truly feel she has gone as far as she can and is in danger, they need to say something, take action, be firm, not hire a lawyer, or, as is more likely happening, talk about hiring a lawyer to do something.
 

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