Minor Bar Scuffle and Now I'm Looking at Jail?

[MAmGuy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

Had a misdemeanor battery conviction last fall, involved (barely!)shoving a bouncer at closing time at a bar. No big deal, really, he didn’t want them to prosecute but bar’s policy said he had to file a complaint. I pleaded nolo, paid a $200 fine and costs, and got a 30-day jail sentence, all but 3 days “shock incarceration” suspended on condition I serve a year’s probation including 25 hours community service a month (300 hours total). First few months went well, but then had a couple hiccups on probation (missed one meeting with my P.O. in Jan., and came in short a few hours on service in Feb.). Each time the P.O. said he didn’t want to send me back to jail, so instead just shifted the community service to a different (tougher) agency for the balance of the probation. Second time he did this it was road work where they work your ass off and treat you pretty much like crap and tell you it’s your last chance. Well, came in at 16 hours there in April with a required 25. So yesterday, May 1, the P.O. calls and said he’s revoking the probation, judge has signed the warrant, and as a “courtesy” is giving me until Monday to turn myself in for the 27 days jail remaining. Or they’ll come get me. Some courtesy! I called the lawyer from last fall and he’s retired but a new dude in that office basically told me tough noogies. Anybody see any options here, or should I just go take my lumps? Boss did tell me she’d protect my job for a month, but from what I saw in those three days I served, I really dread another 27. Not much fun in there. Shouldn’t I at least get some reduction for the community service time I did?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

Had a misdemeanor battery conviction last fall, involved (barely!)shoving a bouncer at closing time at a bar. No big deal, really, he didn’t want them to prosecute but bar’s policy said he had to file a complaint. I pleaded nolo, paid a $200 fine and costs, and got a 30-day jail sentence, all but 3 days “shock incarceration” suspended on condition I serve a year’s probation including 25 hours community service a month (300 hours total). First few months went well, but then had a couple hiccups on probation (missed one meeting with my P.O. in Jan., and came in short a few hours on service in Feb.). Each time the P.O. said he didn’t want to send me back to jail, so instead just shifted the community service to a different (tougher) agency for the balance of the probation. Second time he did this it was road work where they work your ass off and treat you pretty much like crap and tell you it’s your last chance. Well, came in at 16 hours there in April with a required 25. So yesterday, May 1, the P.O. calls and said he’s revoking the probation, judge has signed the warrant, and as a “courtesy” is giving me until Monday to turn myself in for the 27 days jail remaining. Or they’ll come get me. Some courtesy! I called the lawyer from last fall and he’s retired but a new dude in that office basically told me tough noogies. Anybody see any options here, or should I just go take my lumps? Boss did tell me she’d protect my job for a month, but from what I saw in those three days I served, I really dread another 27. Not much fun in there. Shouldn’t I at least get some reduction for the community service time I did?

You didn't take your probation seriously, and now you have to deal with the consequences.

 

[ScofflawIGuess]

My gosh, how many chances do you want?

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

Had a misdemeanor battery conviction last fall, involved (barely!)shoving a bouncer at closing time at a bar. No big deal, really, he didn’t want them to prosecute but bar’s policy said he had to file a complaint. I pleaded nolo, paid a $200 fine and costs, and got a 30-day jail sentence, all but 3 days “shock incarceration” suspended on condition I serve a year’s probation including 25 hours community service a month (300 hours total). First few months went well, but then had a couple hiccups on probation (missed one meeting with my P.O. in Jan., and came in short a few hours on service in Feb.). Each time the P.O. said he didn’t want to send me back to jail, so instead just shifted the community service to a different (tougher) agency for the balance of the probation. Second time he did this it was road work where they work your ass off and treat you pretty much like crap and tell you it’s your last chance. Well, came in at 16 hours there in April with a required 25. So yesterday, May 1, the P.O. calls and said he’s revoking the probation, judge has signed the warrant, and as a “courtesy” is giving me until Monday to turn myself in for the 27 days jail remaining. Or they’ll come get me. Some courtesy! I called the lawyer from last fall and he’s retired but a new dude in that office basically told me tough noogies. Anybody see any options here, or should I just go take my lumps? Boss did tell me she’d protect my job for a month, but from what I saw in those three days I served, I really dread another 27. Not much fun in there. Shouldn’t I at least get some reduction for the community service time I did?

No sympathy from me. Do I count three probation violations here? This missed meeting with the officer, missed service hours in Feb., and missed hours on the s**t road detail in April?

And you're asking if you need to take your lumps? Well, Duh! Here they wouldn't give you that many chances.

And as for jail being "not much fun," from what little time I've done, I agree. But that's the WHOLE IDEA, dude!

Even though the judge has signed your warrant, when you turn yourself in, if it's like here they'll still take you before him to formally revoke, which he obviously will. Only thing I can think of is if you can get a letter from that bouncer who didn't want to prosecute, to show at the hearing, saying you've apologized, and asking the judge to maybe cut the 30 days down to 21 or 15. But you're still gonna get locked up, and, excuse me, you should be.

The Texas jails I was in have liquid now, but in case yours in Kansas doesn't: Don't drop your soap.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Wow, tough noogies. Next time, don't abuse it when the judge and PO give you gifts.

 

[MAmGuy]

To ScofflawIGuess

Only thing I can think of is if you can get a letter from that bouncer who didn't want to prosecute, to show at the hearing, saying you've apologized, and asking the judge to maybe cut the 30 days down to 21 or 15. But you're still gonna get locked up, and, excuse me, you should be.

It's obvious you guys think I caused this and don't much care I'm staring at almost a month in a tough jail. But Scofflaw, in the middle of your lecture and silly advice about not dropping soap, you did come up with an interesting idea about getting a letter from the bouncer. I got his name off the case paperwork and checked the local phone book - only one with his name, and the address not all that far from where the bar is, so think it is probably him. Now just to decide whether to call. G/f thinks it's a bad idea to call him, but I just read and reread the paperwork from the fall, and the terms of probation (which is being revoked anyway), and there is nothing in there about not contacting. I'll see. May also ask that new lawyer who picked up for my retired guy, though he didn't have much sympathy yesterday. Thanks, Scoff, for that part of your post.

 

[CSO286]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Kansas

Had a misdemeanor battery conviction last fall, involved (barely!)shoving a bouncer at closing time at a bar. No big deal, really, he didn’t want them to prosecute but bar’s policy said he had to file a complaint. I pleaded nolo, paid a $200 fine and costs, and got a 30-day jail sentence, all but 3 days “shock incarceration” suspended on condition I serve a year’s probation including 25 hours community service a month (300 hours total). First few months went well, but then had a couple hiccups on probation (missed one meeting with my P.O. in Jan., and came in short a few hours on service in Feb.). Each time the P.O. said he didn’t want to send me back to jail, so instead just shifted the community service to a different (tougher) agency for the balance of the probation. Second time he did this it was road work where they work your ass off and treat you pretty much like crap and tell you it’s your last chance. Well, came in at 16 hours there in April with a required 25. So yesterday, May 1, the P.O. calls and said he’s revoking the probation, judge has signed the warrant, and as a “courtesy” is giving me until Monday to turn myself in for the 27 days jail remaining. Or they’ll come get me. Some courtesy! I called the lawyer from last fall and he’s retired but a new dude in that office basically told me tough noogies. Anybody see any options here, or should I just go take my lumps? Boss did tell me she’d protect my job for a month, but from what I saw in those three days I served, I really dread another 27. Not much fun in there. Shouldn’t I at least get some reduction for the community service time I did?

You skived off the requirements to be able to remain the community.

As my 12 year old would say, "Sucks to be you."

 

[CSO286]

It's obvious you guys think I caused this and don't much care I'm staring at almost a month in a tough jail. But Scofflaw, in the middle of your lecture and silly advice about not dropping soap, you did come up with an interesting idea about getting a letter from the bouncer. I got his name off the case paperwork and checked the local phone book - only one with his name, and the address not all that far from where the bar is, so think it is probably him. Now just to decide whether to call. G/f thinks it's a bad idea to call him, but I just read and reread the paperwork from the fall, and the terms of probation (which is being revoked anyway), and there is nothing in there about not contacting. I'll see. May also ask that new lawyer who picked up for my retired guy, though he didn't have much sympathy yesterday. Thanks, Scoff, for that part of your post.

Better check and make sure that part of your probationary conditions don't include a "No contact with the victim" clause.

Even if not there, I think it's a really bad idea.

 

[davew128]

Better check and make sure tha part of your probationary conditions don't include a "No contact with the victim" clause.

Even if not there, I think it's a really bad idea.

If not an outright crime for intimidating a witness. Best to let an attorney approach the bouncer.

 

[dave33]

It's obvious you guys think I caused this and don't much care I'm staring at almost a month in a tough jail. But Scofflaw, in the middle of your lecture and silly advice about not dropping soap, you did come up with an interesting idea about getting a letter from the bouncer. I got his name off the case paperwork and checked the local phone book - only one with his name, and the address not all that far from where the bar is, so think it is probably him. Now just to decide whether to call. G/f thinks it's a bad idea to call him, but I just read and reread the paperwork from the fall, and the terms of probation (which is being revoked anyway), and there is nothing in there about not contacting. I'll see. May also ask that new lawyer who picked up for my retired guy, though he didn't have much sympathy yesterday. Thanks, Scoff, for that part of your post.

You are going to make a plea, to contact the bouncer is a waste of time. To introduce a statement from the bouncer (waste of time) you would need to reject a plea and take the matter to the violation hearing.
Bad idea, maybe you should ask around and see if you can find ANYBODY whom has ever won a hearing. You are guilty of the violation because you did not contact your p.o. and the community service. These things
you do not even deny. Any excuse you make is simply an admission of guilt. Plea deal, forget the bouncer. goodluck.

 

[MAmGuy]

I'd already put a call back into that lawyer guy who took over from the retired one

Better check and make sure tha part of your probationary conditions don't include a "No contact with the victim" clause.

Even if not there, I think it's a really bad idea.

I'd called him before you guys got so hot about me not calling the bouncer at the number in the phone book.

Lawyer just called me back. He was same gruff guy as yesterday (he called it 'tuff love,' jeeze).

But he was even stronger than you guys about my NOT calling the bouncer. "That would be the dumb idea of the year." Said he still thinks there would be a no-contact order in my file (which he will research only if I hire him to take over the case and he says in reality there would be little he could do to keep me out of the hoosegow). But he said even if there isn't a no-contact spec, if the judge finds out I called the bouncer, it could affect the court's 'sole discretion' years from now if I apply to get it expunjed and the judge can rule without a reason. Lawyer didn't mention 'intimdating witness' like one of you did, though.

Lawyer said if I want to apologize, I can write a letter to the bouncer, show it to the judge and pay a fee to have him send it on, but it "absolutely" won't reduce my punishment. Said that's especially because earlier this year the court raised the "pursumptive" (?) penalty for first-offense misdemeanor battery from the 30 days I got to 60-90, and also raised the "shock incarceration" part from the 3 days I got, to 10. So he actually thinks my punishment could have been far worse, and there's no way the judge will reduce.

He did do one sort of nice thing, and asked me to consider turning myself in this weekend rather than on the Monday deadline. He said my term starts from the moment of check-in, but that they actually only move guys to the "MCCs" (misdemeanor convict cells) on weekdays. He said the general check-in area can be busy and crowded on weekends, but is still way better than the lovely MCCs.

Gotta talk one more time to the girlfriend when she gets home, but it looks like I'm going to jail.

You guys, and this new lawyer dude, aren't ever going to be accused of coddling petty offenders, that's for sure!

 

[Silverplum]

I'd called him before you guys got so hot about me not calling the bouncer at the number in the phone book.

Lawyer just called me back. He was same gruff guy as yesterday (he called it 'tuff love,' jeeze).

It's a valid method. And did you really think he was going to put you in a cradle and rock you?

But he was even stronger than you guys about my NOT calling the bouncer. "That would be the dumb idea of the year." Said he still thinks there would be a no-contact order in my file (which he will research only if I hire him to take over the case and he says in reality there would be little he could do to keep me out of the hoosegow). But he said even if there isn't a no-contact spec, if the judge finds out I called the bouncer, it could affect the court's 'sole discretion' years from now if I apply to get it expunjed and the judge can rule without a reason. Lawyer didn't mention 'intimdating witness' like one of you did, though.

Well, duh. Why would he work for free?

(Why do WE "work for free?")

Lawyer said if I want to apologize, I can write a letter to the bouncer, show it to the judge and pay a fee to have him send it on, but it "absolutely" won't reduce my punishment. Said that's especially because earlier this year the court raised the "pursumptive" (?) penalty for first-offense misdemeanor battery from the 30 days I got to 60-90, and also raised the "shock incarceration" part from the 3 days I got, to 10. So he actually thinks my punishment could have been far worse, and there's no way the judge will reduce.

He did do one sort of nice thing, and asked me to consider turning myself in this weekend rather than on the Monday deadline. He said my term starts from the moment of check-in, but that they actually only move guys to the "MCCs" (misdemeanor convict cells) on weekdays. He said the general check-in area can be busy and crowded on weekends, but is still way better than the lovely MCCs.

Gotta talk one more time to the girlfriend when she gets home, but it looks like I'm going to jail.

You guys, and this new lawyer dude, aren't ever going to be accused of coddling petty offenders, that's for sure!

Thank you for noticing.

 

[CSO286]

It's a valid method. And did you really think he was going to put you in a cradle and rock you?


Well, duh. Why would he work for free?

(Why do WE "work for free?")


Thank you for noticing.

Becasue we don't have four years of college (well some of us) and three years of law school backing us into a fiscal corner......

 

[ScofflawIGuess]

Well, go get it done

I'm sorry if my idea about getting the letter from the bouncer might have gotten you in more trouble. I still think the bouncer's opinion could affect your amount of time, but if your calling him is a no-no, I apologize for that part and urge you to follow the advice of others on here and forget contacting him.

At this stage, just serve it, and please don't come up with any more no-shows like you did with your community services and your PO meeting. I worry that you might put it off again, and hope you know that would only make things worse. I also hope you follow the lawyer and go in before the deadline.

I have never did anything close to 27 days, and remember how I felt on shorter ones. So you must be scared, particularly if you already spent 3 in there and know it's not a nice place. But just do it, as **** would say.

We wish you a safe and healthy 27 days (maybe a little less if you get good time or work-detail time).

Safe and healthy, but not pleasant or comfortable. You already know it won't be, and that would defeat the purpose anyway. You blew several good chances here, and you need something to hit that home for you. Check back when you get out.

 

[sandyclaus]

I say you got off relatively easy - before you went and blew your probation, that is.

Convincing the bouncer to write some letter pleading for leniency isn't going to make your present issue go away. While they likely influenced the courts to give you probation in the first place, the bouncer had nothing to do with you repeatedly falling to meet the terms of your probation. They had nothing to do with you missing your appointments with the PO, nor with whatever excuse you have for not completing the required community service hours.

Poor you. The probation system has grown tired of your excuses and has decided that the only way for you to learn your lesson is to finish out the suspended sentence in jail. For that, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[MAmGuy]

Talked it through again with boss at work and with girlfriend

Okay, decided not to put this off any more. Boss is letting me pick up one more shift tonight then g/f is taking me down to county when she gets home from work Saturday afternoon. Both say they're with me 100% when I get out, but my girl says jail visits are depressing and scare her so don't expect a bunch. I'll still call her, plus list her and hope she comes see me a little. Bye.