What does child support cover?

[tigger22472]

OK.. I haven't responded here just because I've tried to keep my 'big fat mouth shut' but I just can't do it anymore. Things like this just tick me off!!

I will agree that the whole 'standard of living' as if the parents never divorced is a crock and I do agree that there are CP's that don't take care of the kids and use CS correctly but is it really about money? Would they take care of the kids properly if they weren't allotted CS monies? To me it's more about the neglect of the parent then it is where the monies are going.

With that said, this BS of accounting for where every penny of CS goes and having receipts and the like is just that... BS. How many people here separate all monies? What I mean is for example and NCP and a CP (obviously from different relationships) live in a house together. The CP gets CS from an ex while the NCP pays to their ex. Does the CP take that money, put it in a special account to pay specific things? No. Should they? No. We have gone over all the things that CS is to cover and as long as those things are met there is nothing that can be done.

kandyflip03 has been given a hard time here over a comment and although I admit her posts have drove me to near insanity I will stick up for her here. If a CP pays all the bills at the first of the month, in the middle of the month when CS comes in if the CP wants to buys clothes for themselves, or spend that money on them, they have that right. They have already paid the portion that the CS was to cover with their own monies.

Again, the point is that if the children aren't being cared for it's not a matter of money. It's a matter of neglect! Period. It really depends on what the infractions are if it's a custody breaker or not. Either way if a NCP doesn't feel the children are being taken care of the issue needs to be addressed.

 

[ablessin]

If child support is truly meant to be a "reimbursement", then the CP should submit all reciepts that pertain to the necessities of the child and the NCP will then cut a check for the appropriate amount to be be reimbursed to the CP for the child. Submit those child expenses just like you're submitting your work expenses for reimbursement.

EXACTLY, THANK YOU

 

[stealth2]

Preach it, Tigger!

 

[bononos]

If child support is truly meant to be a "reimbursement", then the CP should submit all reciepts that pertain to the necessities of the child and the NCP will then cut a check for the appropriate amount to be be reimbursed to the CP for the child. Submit those child expenses just like you're submitting your work expenses for reimbursement.

In my situation, I would Love. to do this!!!
Then, it would be shown the lousy amount I receive doesn't cover even 1/4 of what the expenses are.
Of course we would still need domestics to makle sure the NCP actually "cuts" the check.

 

[stepmom&mom]

This is a perfect example of why I think that joint legal/physical should always be presumed and sole custody, by one parent or the other, should be the last resort. It is unrealistic to expect a CP to provide receipts for expenses incurred, for it would be very difficult to keep track of the exact monthly costs that a CP incurs by caring for their children. Monthly, weekly, and even daily costs fluctuate.

What many NCP's won't admit is that it bothers them that they are handing over a lump sum of money to the other parent (whom they already divorced or separated from due to unresolvable differences) and they have no control over how this money is spent. I do believe that the majority of CP's provide well for their children, and, therefore, the child support is being used properly. What I disagree with is grossly exaggerated lump sums of child support being granted to a CP with the rationalization that the children must maintain the standard of living. I'm not talking about $400/month vs. $600/month. I'm referring to child support monthly payments in the tens of thousands of dollars. We all know that this is excessive and the CP will most likely NEVER spend that amount of money on the child each month.

I am a CP who has never received child support from the NCP. My dh is an NCP who pays child support monthly. My advice to all CP's is to live as if you will not be receiving that child support check. You never know what will happen. The NCP could disappear or die or suddenly become disabled. I've heard too many CP's who complain because they are a stay @ home parent and the other parent is not paying child support. Being the CP and having the privilege of having your children under your roof and in your constant control has certain responsibilities, in my opinion. The other parent does not have this privilege, and therefore, imo, doesn't have the same responsibilites (don't misinterprete this to mean they have NO responsibilities.)

 

[ablessin]

kandyflip...if mom wants to buy a new dress with the CS $, it better be for the child, not her! You're right, it is her money, but it is her money in the respect that it is supposed to go for the child's expenses and it is intended to offset those expenses. IT is not alimony, it is called "child support" and that is what it is for. In the long run, the $900 we pay every month should go towards the kid's needs, not mom's desire for a new dress. And that is our gripe--when we notice mom going on trips, buying a new car, (when she had a perfectly good one before and still has it, it is sitting in her driveway) and meanwhile the child comes to us and wants us to buy her new glasses (isn't that considered a necessity? ) or school supplies or new bras (possibly another necessity? ) because "mom says she doesn't have the money". Child support is expressly for the child's needs, not mom's wants. And that is what is wrong with the system. They really should make the CP accountable for the money she gets and how she spends it, because there does seem to be a lot of abuse of the CS system. (Read all the letters on this forum!!) My daughter's friend's mom uses it as money to support all of them, the child, her brother, and mom, as she lives off it and doesn't work, just stays home. She's perfectly capable of working, young and healthy, just chooses not to because the court awarded her such high CS that she can collect it and live off it. And that is what my husband's ex says. She tells his daughter that "I couldn't live if you moved out, that money from him is my main income, I need it pay for the new car and house". And that is fair to us? We don't have a new car. Her main income....and she has a good job! And don't call me bitter, because I am not. I just yearn for a fair system, we are perfectly willing to support his daughter, as long as she is really being "supported" and the money isn't spent on other things, with the leftover $ going towards her support. I hope to hear from all who agree with me!!

Again, YES......that is his gripe..... his ex bought a brand new car a month ago and then turned around and said "the kids need new book bags for school and I don't have the money for them"... which is because she bought a 2005 car!!! She gets $1200 per month for child support, which remember is "free" to her - untaxed and untaxable at the end of the year.

I am not resentful that he pays CS - they are his kids and he does and should take financial responsibility for them.

My ex and I take equal financial responsibilty in our son and his needs. The OP's question is what is CS for? It is supposed to be money towards the CHILD's needs. If the kid needs sneakers, use the CS $$ for it. My mother never asked my father for money unless there was some big thing, or an emergency......my day to day needs were well met out of the CS my mom got.
My fience's ex sends the kids over in holey sneakers, pants that are like floods, etc... you get the picture. So, we have to wonder, WHAT is she doing with that $1200 a month she is getting? She also works full time, and her parents bought her the trailer she lives in so her bills are mimimal compared to those of others. She has no rent or mortgage, just lot rent...etc. He is supposed to pay 1/2 of non covered medical expenses too - the only thing he asked is that if it's something "big" she tell him first, because we don't want her running up big bills, knowing he has to pay for 1/2 of it. By that I mean, no tooth whitening, no plastic surgery - etc without his approval first. Emergency is totally besides the point.
It's those kinds of things that baffle us. Am I bitter? No, - would I like to see that money stay within our household? Sure, who wouldn't..... I would much rather keep the CS money and buy everything the kids need.... because then at least we would know what it is being spent on... however - the CS also is supposed to be for food - housing - etc..... which we don't want to be a part of - and I imagine not many out there would.

And, one more thing - - I know plenty of married couples who keep separate finances - separate bank accounts, the whole 9 yards.... they just divy up bills and combine "fun money" when they go out. It's a good situation and it works..... my fience and I do it too, and to be honest, I am not sure if I want to go back to having a joint account. Not after all the grief I went thru with my ex while we were married (he forgot to give me receipts and checks bounced)

I - too - yearn for a fair system. One that doesn't take advantage of the hard working dads who pay CS

 

[bononos]

This is a perfect example of why I think that joint legal/physical should always be presumed and sole custody, by one parent or the other, should be the last resort. It is unrealistic to expect a CP to provide receipts for expenses incurred, for it would be very difficult to keep track of the exact monthly costs that a CP incurs by caring for their children. Monthly, weekly, and even daily costs fluctuate.

Now you are assuming that in a 50/50 custody, each parent contributes equally, so neither should pay?
No way Jose!
I have 50/50, I pay full child care and preschool, I pay full health insurance, WHY? Because I know these things are necessary and will pay to make sure it is acquired.
Until the custody mod. is complete, due to ex's drug use and mental illness, I get $40 a month. These two bills alone add up to $470.50 a month.
The idea that 50/50 should mean no one pays is completely wrong, espically when you have a parent who only wants 50/50 to get out of paying. Or, of course again like my ex, get's fired at least once a year.
I don't mean to hijack, but my situation is an example where adding up receipts would be GREAT! I'd be more than willing to do this to get things done right.

 

[ablessin]

as someone mentioned upthread, unless it is something outside of child support and is outlined in the order,the OP is under no obligation to pay for any extras. Certainly if this is court ordered medical, for example, the NCP needs to budget for those surprises in addition to thier monthly support payment, But then we would not calll that an "extra".

if the NCP chooses to spend more on thier children, that should be thier choice, and not because the CP chooses not to budget and rely on "guilting" the NCP.It is up to the CP to come up with the rest of the money that keeps the child in the supposed financial situation they were in before the divorce.


"Extras" for children are something that need to planned and budgeted for, in any family. An NCP family has already budgeted thier childrens needs with child support. Just as the CP has, with thier household income. One cannot assume after support is paid there is always money for "extras" lying around, especially if those extras are part of the child support budget already.

Thank you again. I am glad someone else is writing this. These are all the points I was trying to make, - although it appears I worded things wrong or something.
There is not always money "floating" around! I have to tell my son all of the time that money doesn't grown on trees....... he seems to think that just because I work and he wants something I should buy it for him!
Kids! I can't wait until he "gets" the concept of money better

 

[stargazer0725]

IRS publication 504 clearly states that child support is not "income" when received by the CP - it's a direct reimbursement for expenses incurred to support a child - therefore it is not taxable like alimony. (see page 10, right hand column, section titled "Child Support" and it's example) http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p504.pdf

The reason why costs aren't itemized is because it would be a paperwork NIGHTMARE for the government to audit and enforce, so they "estimate" what parents would each spend based on their individual income(s), and designate an amount to be paid to the CP to reimburse monthly living expenses for the child(ren). Can you imagine actually getting the IRS involved in establishing what a "reimbursable" expense would be, then having the child support office try to interpret those laws?

And personally speaking, as a CP who has not been paid $10,000 of child support in the last 3 years, I consider every penny that I receive on that arrearage as reimbursement money. Meaning I have supported my son completely by myself using my own funds for longer than I can remember. Every penny from that back amount is going into a savings account (which I have not had the luxury of establishing while solely supporting my son). IF I EVER SEE THE ARREARAGE MONEY, it will allow me to put a down-payment on a house for me and my son to live in.

 

[ablessin]

IRS publication 504 clearly states that child support is not "income" when received by the CP - it's a direct reimbursement for expenses incurred to support a child - therefore it is not taxable like alimony. (see page 10, right hand column, section titled "Child Support" and it's example) http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p504.pdf

The reason why costs aren't itemized is because it would be a paperwork NIGHTMARE for the government to audit and enforce, so they "estimate" what parents would each spend based on their individual income(s), and designate an amount to be paid to the CP to reimburse monthly living expenses for the child(ren). Can you imagine actually getting the IRS involved in establishing what a "reimbursable" expense would be, then having the child support office try to interpret those laws?

And personally speaking, as a CP who has not been paid $10,000 of child support in the last 3 years, I consider every penny that I receive on that arrearage as reimbursement money. Meaning I have supported my son completely by myself using my own funds for longer than I can remember. Every penny from that back amount is going into a savings account (which I have not had the luxury of establishing while solely supporting my son). IF I EVER SEE THE ARREARAGE MONEY, it will allow me to put a down-payment on a house for me and my son to live in.

The arrearage should be put into a college fund. Something that will benefit the child long term. You buying a house with arrearage money will not benefit your son in the long term.. Eventually he will grow up and move out.
A college or 2ndary education account would be most beneficial to the child.

Does your ex see your son? I think it's lousy when the ncp (who is usually the father for some reason) packs up and runs off and the kid never sees the dad again. Unless the dad beats the kid and/or the mom - I don't know..... there are always circumstances... but I hate to see a couple split up and then the kid loses touch with the person who leaves the marital home. That is sad

 

[Zephyr]

The arrearage should be put into a college fund. Something that will benefit the child long term.



I am sorry but what is it about the concept of reimbursement that you don't get?!?!?

she has already paid ncp's portion for the child for years!~ maybe if he had been paying his portion all along she could have already bought the house!

and how is a parent having a stable asset NOT beneficial to the child, especially when it's a home?

 

[stargazer0725]

The arrearage should be put into a college fund. Something that will benefit the child long term. You buying a house with arrearage money will not benefit your son in the long term.. Eventually he will grow up and move out.
A college or 2ndary education account would be most beneficial to the child.

Does your ex see your son? I think it's lousy when the ncp (who is usually the father for some reason) packs up and runs off and the kid never sees the dad again. Unless the dad beats the kid and/or the mom - I don't know..... there are always circumstances... but I hate to see a couple split up and then the kid loses touch with the person who leaves the marital home. That is sad

And my response to this is to read the same Publication, Page 10, 2nd column, Section Titled "Back Child Support". It clearly states that once an NCP fails to pay child support and accrues an arreage, it is no longer even considered child support NO MATTER WHEN IT'S FINALLY PAID - it's just a generic debt owed to to CP - not for the use of supporting the child because that's already been done by the CP while the arrearage was accruing (and is currently being done by me - including a nice college fund which I am funding MYSELF).

I've BEEN sacrificing to make sure my son's current and future needs are met MORE than adequately, at the expense of my personal savings goals, just because my ex doesn't think he needs to contribute. So are you saying I should sacrifice the arrearage that my ex owes me also? I've, in effect, been giving my ex a "loan" with my own cashflow, so this money will become mine, so sorry that it offends you.

And let's not make this into a visitation issue. My son's father has seen him whenever he has wanted. Although, his moving to another city, his refusal to take advantage of his mid-week visitations (or nearly half of his weekend/holiday time at that), and his very recent incarceration for child support evasion has not evoked quite the image of the dedicated parent. I try to make excuses for him to my son, but they're starting to wear a little thin with him.

 

[brisgirl825]

People why do we even do this?
We are never going to agree. The same sides are going to continue to agrue their point to no avail.
The fact is, is that the lawmakers make these decisions not the CP. If you have a problem with a CP getting money, for children they didn't make by themselves, then write your local lawmakers. Tell them that they should spend your tax dollars to set up a special and undoubtedly inefficient office, not unlike CSE, to do CS audits. Then we can drive this counrty farther into debt so that when something, say like a natural disaster, happens we don't have funds to help people.

 

[simpleguy05]

I just don't get why alot of these CP's (some but not all) are such crackheads. My wife is a Cp from her first marriage and she and her ex get along great. Never do they have squabbles about money or visitation. It works better than in a marriage, so I know it can be done. She doesn't get wrapped around the axle for more money. She has always gone out and worked her @ss off since I've known her, if she needed more for her child. She never sat there waiting for a hand out. So I think she is very justified to hate my gold-digging ex (CP) who is always wanting more money. She gets paid every month from me without fail, and always I get calls for more more more...Does that make my wife a wicked stepmother for hating her? HELL NO! I think a lot of stepmoms get a bad wrap and it drives me nuts...thats all I wanted to say...lol sorry for ranting.

 

[stargazer0725]

People why do we even do this?
We are never going to agree. The same sides are going to continue to agrue their point to no avail.

I agree Bris, that people on opposite sides of the issues are never going to agree, and I'm probably pounding my head against a wall by even opening up my mouth. However, there was a valid IRS law that spells out exactly how child support is to be viewed and I felt duty-bound to at least make the law known so the uninformed aren't walking around with huge chips on their shoulders with no legal backing.

My ex is actually *issed that the interest on his arrearage will come to me. I mean, come on, 6% SIMPLE APR on a $10,000 loan, to be paid out over the course of 8 years. I couldn't walk into a bank and get a deal like that!!