Installation of Software

[Raevyn]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? National

I am asking a fairly general question to understand whether this can be legal or not.

I work for an ISP that offers software of their own brand with a paid subscription, as many due. I have been told that should a customer call in for service and we access their computer, we MUST install that software, hopefully without asking the customer, on the customers computer, which is owned equipment by the customer entirely. Now, I have been told, because I have serious ethical issues with this, I may ask and give them right of refusal, however they have said to the floor that we are to install this software and we are allowed to, because upon allowing us to access their computer, they click acceptance of our terms and that clause is in there.

I want to know if that sounds at all legal or not. I understand we can install IF given permission but it seems like if it is the customers computer and they own it, we do not have legal rights to do anything like that, and even if they clicked the box to accept that entire set of terms if they werent calling in for that, and it is required to receive our service they called in on, it would not be a valid upheld contract.

Furthermore, there are licenses with that software we are supposed to just install that I am being told that when they accept our terms to connect, they are agreeing we are acting as agents for the customer and can accept the terms on their behalf. That doesnt seem legal at all. Its as though we suddenly have some power of attorney thing going on and are given a check to do whatever WE think should be done.

I should also point out, this software is only for windows computers. it is not for Macs or Linux or other, yet they claim because they advertised it with service we must fulfill that obligation. I can get that if we ask the customer if they want it or the customers asks, yes we do. But to JUST install it.. seems illegal.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? National

I am asking a fairly general question to understand whether this can be legal or not.

I work for an ISP that offers software of their own brand with a paid subscription, as many due. I have been told that should a customer call in for service and we access their computer, we MUST install that software, hopefully without asking the customer, on the customers computer, which is owned equipment by the customer entirely. Now, I have been told, because I have serious ethical issues with this, I may ask and give them right of refusal, however they have said to the floor that we are to install this software and we are allowed to, because upon allowing us to access their computer, they click acceptance of our terms and that clause is in there.

I want to know if that sounds at all legal or not. I understand we can install IF given permission but it seems like if it is the customers computer and they own it, we do not have legal rights to do anything like that, and even if they clicked the box to accept that entire set of terms if they werent calling in for that, and it is required to receive our service they called in on, it would not be a valid upheld contract.

Furthermore, there are licenses with that software we are supposed to just install that I am being told that when they accept our terms to connect, they are agreeing we are acting as agents for the customer and can accept the terms on their behalf. That doesnt seem legal at all. Its as though we suddenly have some power of attorney thing going on and are given a check to do whatever WE think should be done.

I should also point out, this software is only for windows computers. it is not for Macs or Linux or other, yet they claim because they advertised it with service we must fulfill that obligation. I can get that if we ask the customer if they want it or the customers asks, yes we do. But to JUST install it.. seems illegal.

Any thoughts on this?

If the contract says that you can do these things for a customer, then you're following the contract.

 

[Raevyn]

That just doesnt seem right though. How can we make a customer responsible for follow the terms of the software we install if we assume control and take it away from them, saying we acted on their behalf? Consider Dell. I buy a computer with Windows already one it.. I still have to agree to the terms of using Windows before I can use it, despite Dell assuming control of the computer after purchase and saying they will install it for me. Or any of that bloatware.. they install it but I have to agree to it before use.

 

[TheGeekess]

That just doesnt seem right though. How can we make a customer responsible for follow the terms of the software we install if we assume control and take it away from them, saying we acted on their behalf? Consider Dell. I buy a computer with Windows already one it.. I still have to agree to the terms of using Windows before I can use it, despite Dell assuming control of the computer after purchase and saying they will install it for me. Or any of that bloatware.. they install it but I have to agree to it before use.

I've installed an awful lot of software on clients' computers. Few of them were standing over my shoulder the entire time. They are quite welcome to remove it.

End users these days? Most don't have half a clue.

 

[Raevyn]

Well I realize that customers may not 'care' per say, but I was looking at it from a legal perspective besides a moral one. Do we own their computer or not and can a checkbox be legally binding in itself to allow for acceptable of anything we want to do?

 

[TheGeekess]

Well I realize that customers may not 'care' per say, but I was looking at it from a legal perspective besides a moral one. Do we own their computer or not and can a checkbox be legally binding in itself to allow for acceptable of anything we want to do?

The contract that is signed with the service provider is the legally binding glue that allows you to click checkboxes on their PC to install the security software. Your bosses have given you an option to ask permission to install it. Do that if it worries you so.

 

[Raevyn]

Oh I do.. it is morally objectionable, for me, to assume I own someone else machine and install or uninstall anything that is not directly related the solving the issue they are calling in about. I am glad they agreed I can ask, otherwise I was going to let them fire me.

BUT, even so, if it is illegal or bordering on it, I want to go after them for it.

 

[swalsh411]

It's not illegal. But go ahead and waste your time in your little crusade. I'm sure you can find some armor that says "unemployable with no references" with which you can wage war.

 

[Raevyn]

Well thats rude.

 

[proud_parent]

Oh I do.. it is morally objectionable, for me, to assume I own someone else machine and install or uninstall anything that is not directly related the solving the issue they are calling in about. I am glad they agreed I can ask, otherwise I was going to let them fire me.

BUT, even so, if it is illegal or bordering on it, I want to go after them for it.

If you have a moral objection to what your employer is directing you to do, your recourse is to quit.

As you've been told, this is neither illegal nor "bordering on" illegal. Your employer has given you the option of securing the customers' express consent before installing the software, so as to assuage your conscience. If that is not enough to satisfy you, you'd best start looking for other employment.

 

[Zigner]

What do you mean by saying you want to "go after them"?

 

[Raevyn]

What I meant was, if what they were doing was illegal I would go after them in court over it.

However we have come to an understanding somewhat or they can fire me which I am okay with. I will let the customer know that provisions exist int eh terms to allow installing software on their behalf and accepting terms for it as well. For me, my requirement of the customer knowing about it before and what rights they are giving up is satisfied.

 

[Zigner]

What I meant was, if what they were doing was illegal I would go after them in court over it.

If it were illegal, what makes you think you could "go after them"?

 

[swalsh411]

Well thats rude.

You get the advice the volunteers want to give. Generally things do not turn out well for people who go on crusades against their employer except in cases of clear immorality or illegality. This is not even close to that.

 

[Raevyn]

Okay then explain to me this.. how can someone else agree to terms of a legally binding contract without me knowing and agreeing to those terms myself?

Thats the part I am mainly focused on.. if someone can agree to something that legally binds me to law without my knowing and agreeing to them other than a simple click saying we can, what rights do people have?

I know that if I do illegal stuff on someones computer or internet, it is problematic if they can transfer that to me since it is legally theirs and their responsbility to maintain it.

Or am I missing something?