Going out of state with children

[madrezita]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Hi,
I live in Michigan and have been having marital problems for a few years now. I am now ready to file for a divorce from my husband but have a few questions:

* Can I go out of state (say, to Ohio) to stay with my family as I file for divorce here? What are the legal implications of this? We have 2 minor children that I would like to bring along with me (they are 4 and 1).

My children have witnessed a lot of yelling and screaming and I just want to protect them from this.

Thank you in advance for your time, your help and guidance,
madrezita

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Hi,
I live in Michigan and have been having marital problems for a few years now. I am now ready to file for a divorce from my husband but have a few questions:

* Can I go out of state (say, to Ohio) to stay with my family as I file for divorce here? What are the legal implications of this? We have 2 minor children that I would like to bring along with me (they are 4 and 1).

My children have witnessed a lot of yelling and screaming and I just want to protect them from this.

Thank you in advance for your time, your help and guidance,
madrezita

Wow. A brand new question, one that could never be answered by viewing the BAZILLIONS of questions ever asked on this very topic.

 

[Ohiogal]

You can move to Ohio but the children have a father in MI and that is where the divorce will be. I would place bets that a restraining order will be placed prohibiting the children from being removed from the jurisdiction of the court.

 

[CourtClerk]

If you want to protect them from the yelling and screaming, imagine what is going to happen when you take his children to a whole different STATE.

 

[madrezita]

Wow. A brand new question, one that could never be answered by viewing the BAZILLIONS of questions ever asked on this very topic.

I am sorry I wasted your time. But you could have saved some by not taking the time to post a nasty answer here. I am new, I am clueless and I am looking for support and advice here. If you can't offer any of that, you'd better not say anything. Does that make you feel better, to treat people bad and humiliate them in public? Why is that?

People come to this place during a very stressful time in their lives and honestly, you make it worse.

 

[madrezita]

You can move to Ohio but the children have a father in MI and that is where the divorce will be. I would place bets that a restraining order will be placed prohibiting the children from being removed from the jurisdiction of the court.

Thank you, Ohiogal.

 

[madrezita]

If you want to protect them from the yelling and screaming, imagine what is going to happen when you take his children to a whole different STATE.

That is a good point.

I guess I was thinking about all of the fights they witness because their father and I live under the same roof and can't quit fighting. It is a very sad situation. I just wish my husband would stop the screaming in front of the girls. The only thing I could come up with on my "under stress brain" was to get the children away from him as I start the divorce process. but I guess I will have to deal with it in some other way.

Keep us in your thoughts and prayers, please. And thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I really do appreciate it.

Kind regards,
madrezita

 

[Silverplum]

I am sorry I wasted your time. But you could have saved some by not taking the time to post a nasty answer here. I am new, I am clueless and I am looking for support and advice here. If you can't offer any of that, you'd better not say anything. Does that make you feel better, to treat people bad and humiliate them in public? Why is that?

People come to this place during a very stressful time in their lives and honestly, you make it worse.

Such a pity you're the zillionth unhappy person wandering the Earth.

Good thing I don't work for you.

But there are LITERALLY thousands and thousands of posts on the topic. WHY does the forum have questions from yesterday and the day before and last week and last month and last year, if you new posters are never going to READ THEM??

 

[Ohiogal]

That is a good point.

I guess I was thinking about all of the fights they witness because their father and I live under the same roof and can't quit fighting. It is a very sad situation. I just wish my husband would stop the screaming in front of the girls. The only thing I could come up with on my "under stress brain" was to get the children away from him as I start the divorce process. but I guess I will have to deal with it in some other way.

Keep us in your thoughts and prayers, please. And thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I really do appreciate it.

Kind regards,
madrezita

Then maybe YOU AND DAD need to grow up. Quite frankly you and dad are stuck with each other and better realize that fighting is only going to harm the children. Your idea is to get the children away from him? HE is their father! What if dad figures that the best way of dealing with this is to take the children away from YOU! I mean really. If you aren't around then there would not be any screaming and fighting. Understand?
How would you feel if dad just decided to heck with having YOU around the children because of the fighting?

 

[nextwife]

My children have witnessed a lot of yelling and screaming and I just want to protect them from this.

Goodness. My family were ethnic, passionate Mediteranian types and there was PLENTY of yelling and screaming! And I wouldn't have traded them for some bland, quiet, never-raises-one's-voice, hold-it-all inside, or drown-your-unhappiness-in-a-bottle-of booze types in a million years!

 

[StampGirl]

OP: You can't take your children out of state without the permission of the Dad. Go ahead take them away, file for divorce and THEN watch as the JUDGE demands you bring the children back.

How would you feel if Dad decided to do what you are doing? You would be best advised to put the shoe on the other foot and behave accordingly.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Thought I would throw a legaleezzeee into the party here:

Minor Children - Change of Domicile
Procedural
An order or judgment concerning custody of a minor child must contain a provision that the child shall not be removed from the State of Michigan without the approval of the judge who awarded custody or the judge’s successor. MCR 3.211(C).

An order to permit a removal from the State of Michigan is required before a move can occur. The order may be entered either by consent or by the court after hearing.
Parties who are in pro per who agree to a removal from the state may obtain a form consent order from the Friend of the Court office.

Case Law
Dick v Dick, 147 Mich App 513, (1985) summarizes the standards for deciding removal petitions, employing the test from the New Jersey case of D'Onofrio v D'Onofrio.
Under D'Onofrio v D'Onofrio, 144 NJ Super 200, 206-207, 365 A2d 27 (1976), aff'd, 144 NJ Super 352, 365 A2d 716 (1976) the trial court must consider:
Prospective advantages of the move for improvement of general quality of life for custodial parent and child(ren).
Integrity of the motives of the custodial parent in seeking to remove in order to determine whether the move is inspired primarily by a desire to frustrate the parental relationship of the non-custodial parent.
Is the custodial parent likely to comply with this state's parenting provisions once s/he is no longer in the state?
Integrity of the non-custodial parent in opposing the move. For example, consider extent to which opposition is motivated by desire to achieve financial advantage.
Will there be a realistic opportunity for parenting time in lieu of the weekly pattern which can foster an adequate basis for preserving and fostering the parental relationship between the non-custodial parent and child(ren) if removal is allowed? References
American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers (1 997). "Proposed Model Relocation Act."
Ass'n of Family and Conciliation Courts (1996). Family and Conciliation Courts Review, 34,4. The entire issue of this journal is devoted to move away issues and contains the opinions In Re Marriage of Burgess,13 Cal 4th 25, 913 P 2d 473 (1996) (the lead case for freer "move away" criteria for primary custodians), and Tropea v. Tropea, 665 NE 2d 145 (N.Y. 1996), as well as a relevant Canadian opinion.
Bruch, C.S. & Bowermaster, J.M. (1996). The relocation of children and custodial parents: public policy, past and present. Family Law Quarterly, 30, 2.
Wallerstein, J.S. & Tanke, T.J. (1996). To move or not to move: Psycholegal considerations in the relocation of children following divorce. Family Law Quarterly, 30, 2. (Note: Author suggests that when a child is in the primary residential custody of one parent, that parent should be able to relocate except in unusual circumstances. However, when there is a true joint physical custody situation, the parent seeking to move should bear the burden of showing that the move is in the child's best interests.)
Weissman, H.N. (1994) Psychotherapeutic and psycholegal considerations: when a custodial parent seeks to move away. The American Journal of Family Therapy, 22, 2.
LaFrance, A.B. (1995-1996). Child custody and relocation: a constitutional perspective. Univ. of Louisville Journal of Family Law, 34, 1.

http://washtenawtrialcourt.org/family/family_bench_book/minor_children_change_domicile/index_html

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Custody

A physical custody order specifies with whom the child shall live. In deciding the custodial arrangements, the court must consider the following factors of the Michigan Child Custody Act:
The love, affection and other emotional ties existing between the parties involved with the child.

The capacity and disposition of the parties involved to give the child love, affection, and guidance.

The capacity and disposition of the parties involved to provide food clothing, medical care, or remedial care.

The length of time the child has lived in a stable satisfactory environment.

The permanence as a family unit of the existing home or custodial home.

The moral fitness of the parties involved.

The mental and physical health of the parties involved.

The home, school, and community record of the child.

The reasonable preference of the child if the court deems the child to be of sufficient age to express preference.

The willingness and ability of each of the parents to facilitate and encourage a close parent-child relationship.

Domestic violence, regardless of whether directed at or witnessed by the minor child.

Any other factor considered by the court to be relevant to a particular child custody dispute.

http://www.berriencounty.org/?dept=30&pid=117

 

[CourtClerk]

That is a good point.

I guess I was thinking about all of the fights they witness because their father and I live under the same roof and can't quit fighting. It is a very sad situation. I just wish my husband would stop the screaming in front of the girls. The only thing I could come up with on my "under stress brain" was to get the children away from him as I start the divorce process. but I guess I will have to deal with it in some other way.

Keep us in your thoughts and prayers, please. And thanks for taking the time to answer my post. I really do appreciate it.

Kind regards,
madrezita

This is not a support group. If you need one of those, google has tons of them. If you are fighting under the same roof, I'm sure there are tons of other roofs available where dad will be able to see his kids and not travel to another state to do so.

 

[mistoffolees]

This is not a support group. If you need one of those, google has tons of them. If you are fighting under the same roof, I'm sure there are tons of other roofs available where dad will be able to see his kids and not travel to another state to do so.

Just so she doesn't get the wrong idea, moving out and taking the kids away from their father could still cause her problems when it gets to court - just not as bad as taking them out of state.

If she feels that the environment is not good for the kids, she has several choices:
1. Fix the environment. Reach an agreement with stbx to limit the yelling. Seek counseling. Whatever.
2. File for divorce and ask for temporary custody of the home and for the husband to leave. She will need to give some pretty good reasons for that, but it can be done.
3. Leave the kids where they are and move out by herself. If the fighting is caused by her and her husband being in the same house, this should solve it.
4. Leave and take the kids to another house in the same state. Could still have consequences and depending on how important the neighborhood, school, and friends are to the kids (probably not an issue for a 1 year old, but might be for a 4 year old), these consequences could involve an impact on the ultimate custody decision.
5. Leaving the state is just about the worst option.