Speaking of 14th amendment and right to privacy

[weary one]

What recourse does a man have about being forced and tricked into unwilling fatherhood?

 

[LegalBeagle]

Were gonna need a crap load more info to even attempt to answer.. including a state.

 

[weary one]

Virginia.
How is it a woman can "choose" to have a baby from a one night stand, never informing the "sperm donor", and then go about financially ruining him to pay for a child that he was told could not be created, and would not have been willing to create if told the truth?
Why do the laws encourage women to have babies they cannot afford, providing government aid, etc..and then going after the poor schmuck who was not given a choice in the matter?
Why aren't there laws protecting men from being entrapped, which would cut down on illegitmate and unwanted babies by making women accountable for their actions?
How come a woman gets to "choose" and a man doesn't?

 

[LegalBeagle]

I just feel you are about to be slammed.. but, trying to keep this on a legal footing..

It is funny you should mention this because I was reading an appeal court case this very morning on this subject. I will not go into the details.. but, bottom line, a man does have a choice.. he has a choice to say no to sex. We all KNOW that sex with a single form of protection is not 100%, so when you proceed, you know this to be the case and except the risk.

So a man does have a choice. Even if the woman lied about being on some form of birth control, the man STILL has a choice.

If every women who was sexually active was on some form of birth control and every man always wore a condom during sex, then the chances of an unwanted pregnancy is virtually nil.

To me, the choice is not difficult, a few minutes (or hours depending on your exageration level) is not worth 18 years of child support payments, court action, comtempt charges etc etc..

You say you did not have a choice.. want to explain in what area you mean ?

 

[weary one]

Choice...a woman can choose to bring a child into the world, or not. Even if they got pregnant by accident. (Women could say no too, eh?) Even after conception, she has a choice.
Why does a man not get a choice at all?
Why can't a woman, if she chooses to have a baby, without agreement and willingness from bio-father, accept all responsiblity for that choice?
Why does the government encourage this?
Slam away....

 

[Mugs23]

Prove the entrapment, then once the baby is born make sure it's yours by having a paternity test.
It doesn't seem to me like there's a whole lot you can do. You can't force her to have an abortion. If the child does turn out to be yours, you do have a responsibility towards it...

 

[LegalBeagle]

There has been MANY cases over the last 30 years that have given men rights in nearly all areas. Rights to custody, right to deny adoption (did you know that prior to 94 in TN the woman could decide for herself to adopt the child), rights to deny conception via IVF, rights to legitimize the child regardless of the women’s wishes etc ..

Many steps have been taken and a few more will be taken over the years to give true equal rights regardless of sex.

However, there is one area where there is not equal rights and that is after conception and before the birth of the child. During that stage, only the woman can decide the outcome. Once conception has taken place, the man has no choice as to whether he wants to be a father or not. So the choice for the man begins before conception.

There is no way, a law can be brought in that somehow gives a man the right to choose whether or not to be a parent after conception.

The government does not encourage anything, they realise that in the event the child is born, the father HAS to shoulder the responsibility otherwise the state needs to pay. Which means everyone’s taxes go up..

Again, the first and foremost choice is before conception. We all know what sex can lead to and we also know the unreliability of the human species. It is one thing to put your trust in someone you are in a loving relationship, it is another to do so on a one night stand.

 

[weary one]

There is no way, a law can be brought in that somehow gives a man the right to choose whether or not to be a parent after conception.>>>

Well...why not? A woman can!! If she chooses to be a parent in spite of the unwillingness of her sexual partner, shouldn't there be a law saying she can expect to raise the child alone and unaided?
Seems like it would sure make a lot of woman make better choices...before they conceived!

Sorry, I think our child welfare laws stink, and they encourage women to use babies as career moves...

 

[LegalBeagle]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weary one:
Seems like it would sure make a lot of woman make better choices...before they conceived!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is my whole point.. a man has EQUAL rights to choose BEFORE conception. I have few sympathy for anyone who has an unplanned child.. there are so many methods to prevent it.

 

[Slammer]

It is really sad that you can really not know how, when, and where YOUR "choice" to possibly create a child came in...were you absent for the day they taught that in school? What caused you to "donate" the sperm in the first place, genius? Have you ever heard of the saying "don't jump without a parachute"? Granted, they sometimes fail but NOTHING IS 100% - or did this FACT get forgotten as your little head started thiking for you? Your choice is when you chose to do the act, pal.

I guess that's why it really would be the "mature" thing to discuss the "what if's" before you actually do anything, because there is ALWAYS the chance that conception can occur. Maybe in the future you can go with a woman who thinks nothing of having her uterus scarred, and thinks nothing of taking the risk that ridding herself of the responsibility of a pregnancy and motherhood can cause her to not be able to conceive ever again. How dare you call it a 'career move'? It's a child, @ss!
You have a choice too, buddy, that can keep you from being "unwillingly" made a father again. Get yourself a vasectomy (oh, PLEASE do!), and right there your "CHOICE" to not be a father is made personally for you, by you, and FOREVER!!

 

[newmom]

I just want to add my two cents - not to slam or bash anyone because I don't think anyone fully agrees with the welfare system.

Are you saying that single moms should not be able to get welfare?? Or just the ones who are trying to make the "man" (and I use the term lightly in your case because I don't feel you are) responsible for his actions regardless of how he feels about the baby he cocreated????? There happen to be a lot of women who don't want the father involved in the child's life and then come to the realization that they can't afford it on their own and turn to the welfare system. It is at that point (after any period of time on welfare) that the STATE makes it a condition of benefits to name a father. The woman has a choice here too, that being to not get benefits and keep the father confidential, or reveal the father for the state to pursue and keep benefits. Let's think about that one for a minute though - if she resorted to welfare, she obviously can't afford it alone so her choice is more than likely going to be to reveal the father. Common sense tells you that. The welfare system is better now in the sense that you MUST work (unless you are pregnant or for 3 months after birth) to receive benefits at all. So the woman has to work too. She has to contribute SOMETHING!!

I am upset by this issue only because an unwilling father can not willingly give up parental rights to the child even if both parents are in agreeance and the mother CAN afford to do it alone. That is my situation. I WAS on state assistance for the 6 weeks I was off work after my daughter was born (mainly because I wasn't working and my bills had to get paid somehow and I DO PAY TAXES TOO, so some of that was my money too). I would have been more than willing to pay the state back on my own if I could have. At that time too, I thought her father would be a part of her life because he said he would not matter what he had to do to see her (he lives about 800 miles away from us). All that changed and we agreed to him signing away his rights, then I found out that he couldn't. All this would have been spared had I just not had him sign paternity papers. The state would have asked me to name a father but it wouldn't have been until after I was already off the system and I would have suggested paying them back myself. No problem. I can make it without the child support from my ex - basically I pay her daycare with it and have opened a savings account for her with the rest (because he does pay a VERY high amount every month).

To think that the man should have a choice during the pregnancy is just insane!!! NO ONE can tell me what I have to do with my body!! Abortions increase the chance of not being able to have a child when you PLAN to have one (not that that is the case with all women), and I would never have been able to go through an adoption after giving birth to my daughter. If I had felt nothing for her during the pregnancy, I would have heard that little cry and known she was mine!!! No one can MAKE you give up a child unless you are a threat to him/her. Then they try to make you a better parent so you can raise your child.

You don't have to be an active part of the child's life, but remember it is not the baby's fault it was born, and it deserves the same lifestyle it would have had if the two of you had stayed together. Maybe the mother will get married down the road and her husband will want to adopt - at that point you would be permitted to sign away parental rights to the new husband and be free and clear from the child that you really didn't deserve in the first place.

 

[JoJo172]

First, I am female, but I do agree there are a lot of women that trap men by getting pregnant as an attempt to have the guy marry her and/or support her and the child. Although both men/women can and should protect themselves of unwanted pregnancies (not to mention STD's), it is ultimately the woman that will carry the burden of getting pregnant and raising the child - FOR THIS REASON ALONE, I would as a woman take the responsibility of birth control SERIOUSLY. Should the act result in an "unplanned" pregnancy and the woman decides to have the child knowing that the male does not want the responsibility, then I agree that she should be prepared to take on that job by herself. Frankly I don't have sympathy for the women that cry "poor me". If we truly want equal rights, then let's start by taking care of ourselves!

 

[wanttoknow]

Kind of ironic that we have this "other point of view" from a man's perspective in a situtation kinda like mine. Go back and read "does an 18 yr old have the right to have biological father tested. One thing all should remember is how you handle today may not be "best" for tommorrow. Tommorrow is a different situation and your child may come to you when they are 18 (and what "real" parent doesn't want to give their children what they want) and want to know about their biological father. If you make decisions today based on today, Tomorrow may bring you much sorrow. From my experience, Always name the biological father even if it dramically changes his future cause the future of the child's wants and needs may not always be what we mothers think is best. You can love your kids with all your heart but you can never be that part of the puzzle.

 

[weary one]

JoJo
A voice of sanity in the midst! You know what's most interesting is that every one has assumed I am a man from my post. I never even said it was my personal situation! Wow!
And called names and all! Good grief people!
What a righteous and holy bunch you are! All above making mistakes! How lucky for you all!
I am a woman who has raised a wonderful son without any assistance from welfare or his father. No, it wasn't easy, but it was MY choice. He is 22 now and quite a man. And part of what has made him such a wonderful young man is that he has never been taught to rely on anyone but himself, no excuses or poor me's. No entitlement to anything from anyone!
I have seen what a woman can do to a man. I have a friend who was seduced in the midst of severe depression after his wife divorced him. She was a "friend" offering him comfort, and took advantage of him in his misery. She admits she swore she could not conceive. She admits he told her he did not want to have any more children, BEFORE they had sex. She had his baby anyway, now he has to pay a huge amount of cs to her, along with the back stuff to welfare, which after also payng cs to his ex-wife, leaves him with less than nothing to live on. He is going to have to sell his home, get a second job to pay for this baby he did not agree to have. Or flee and become invisible, which who could blame him?
All this abortion propaganda! WOW! Take the moral road if you must, but don't talk about worry of a scarred uterus being a good reason to have a baby. I am sure if one were to check into statistics about conceiving later, that it would be an incredibly small number who cannot. I think the risk of a scarred uterus against bringing a child into 18+ years of fighting, squabbling, and probable visitation and custody disputes is a bigger risk than scarring one's uterus. If one were to truly think of the best interest of the child, they would choose to wait til they had the stability and responsibility to raise one right! Or at least take responsibility for the choice they made alone for having a baby, and the fact that the cute gooey baby will need 20 years of raising!
I strongly believe that our welfare system is indeed encouraging women to have babies as career moves. I hear the young "ladies" who are wise to the system say so!
Things need to change. Women need to be held accountable for their actions and choices, and not be allowed to victimize men.
Ahhh...but it seems that none of you out there have ever made a mistake, so no mercy to the dumb schmuck who does make a mistake.
He deserves to be ruined, forever, for having trusted a friend, and "she" is entitled to whatever she can suck out of him and the system. And she can feel totally right about doing it, in the name of the law.
How would you feel if this were happening to your son or brother or &lt;gasp&gt; your husband?

 

[LegalBeagle]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weary one:
JoJo
A voice of sanity in the midst! You know what's most interesting is that every one has assumed I am a man from my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you read my replies, you would see I did not judge you and did not assume anything. I discussed this based on your information and the law.