Crossing Double lines (carpool lane) - CA

[wired]

Orange County, CA. I received a two-in-one citation today by a very rude CHP officer. I'm not too sure what I can post here so let me know if something is against the rules. I should also say that in my 20 year driving history, this is my first ticket/citation for anything. The citation consists of crossing the double lines to exit the carpool lane and speeding and I drive a Prius.

Situation: When the 5 and 405 fwy merge, there are two carpool lanes. I was driving in the right lane at 72 (I had cruise control on so I'm absolutely sure on that). After about a mile, the two lanes merge into one. The cop was in the right lane going faster than me at first but slowed down to 65 right before me. I slowed down to 65 right after him. We drove like that to the next break in the carpool lane where I needed to exit so I signaled and exited. I also had to speed up since I was merging into the 'fast lane' so I started to accelerate in order to avoid getting rear-ended. Well, the instant I exited and started merging to the right, the cop exited the carpool lane and had his siren/lights on. When I pulled over (ignoring his rudeness though I have an edetic memory and can quote the entire conversion verbatim) he said he's citing me for the double yellow lines and for speeding. I have no issue with the speeding. I'll pay the fine or whatever it is they want me to do. My issue is with the other citation. I have NEVER crossed a double yellow line in my life (one of those boring rule followers that everyone loves to hate). Does anyone have any advice on this situation? I should also mention that the Prius doesn't really accelerate very quickly and since he was going 65 and pulled out right after me, I really didn't have time to accelerate to more than 70 before he pulled me over.

I have GPS in my car and I can get a report from that on my longitude/latitude and I recorded the entire conversation on my cell phone (though he does not know that). I also got a snapshot of traffic conditions at a couple of traffic websites showing that traffic was moving at above 70 at that time (Google Maps/Sigalert/CHP/Traffic). This will only help with the speeding area. I need to know if there is anything I can do to fight the double yellow. I'm planning to go out and take pictures of that area of the freeway tomorrow but that won't help with the he said/she said.

I was just cited today so there is some time before I need to be in court. Thank you ahead of time for any/all advice.

 

[Hey There]

Sites and a book give information requested

12-14-07

wired,

In California a cited driver is entitled to a copy of the officer's notes, a copy of the front and back of the traffic ticket, a copy of the video if one was taken, and the method the officer used to determine the mph the car was travelling.
This is Discovery.
Discovery is simply a request made by the driver to the officer who cited him and to the D.A. for specific information on his case. The driver MUST have a friend who will hand deliver to the police dept. where the officer is employed and the D.A. retaining a copy stamped that the request has been received, OR have the friend mail the requests certified with a return receipt along with a proof of mailing that the friend has done so.
1.Help! I Got A Ticket! provides simple instructions on how to do this as well a form which can be downloaded to submit to the D.A.
2.Other websites can be assessed on Discovery by typing in (Discovery for Traffic Tickets on Google.)
3.Obtain the Officer's Notes Before Going to Traffic Court is representative of the detailed information on Discovery reached through typing in key words on the internet.
4.A book on fighting a traffic ticket in California, published by NOLO, has a section on Discovery, as well as a form to request Discovery
that can be copied, and a proof of service by mail. How to file a request to have the case dismissed if Discovery isn't provided is also discussed.
5.Speeding Ticket -- Fighting or Plea Bargaining gives a detailed description on Discovery and is found by typing the website on Google Search.

Trial By Declarartion.
3 steps. The driver gives a written statement why he hasn't violated any law. The officer submites his statement. The judge or traffic referee gives a verdict.If the driver is ruled against by the judge the driver can request and receive a new trial by a different judge.
The websites referred to in numbers 1 and 5 and the book referred to
in number 4 not only have information on Discovery but information on all aspects necessary to prepare a proper defence when cited for a traffic violation. All of the above have sections detailing how a speed cited by the officer can be in error.

Best Regards,
Hey There

 

[wired]

Thank YOU! I did find the first website and printed out a bunch of instructions on how to go about requesting Discovery. I'll be doing that as soon as I verify the officer's last name (it's not exactly clear on the citation, probably on purpose). I've also copied the rest of your advice so I can start the research process during my Christmas vacation. Here's to hoping I actually manage to make a dent in the case!

 

[JIMinCA]

Thank YOU! I did find the first website and printed out a bunch of instructions on how to go about requesting Discovery. I'll be doing that as soon as I verify the officer's last name (it's not exactly clear on the citation, probably on purpose). I've also copied the rest of your advice so I can start the research process during my Christmas vacation. Here's to hoping I actually manage to make a dent in the case!

Wired,

Get the discovery request in ASAP. It is good advice. Once you have it in, you can do your arraignment anytime. You simply have to have the discovery request in 30 days before trial.

Does your GPS report give a report of max speed? That would be pretty good evidence.

I love the fact that you had presence of mind to record the conversation. What was said? Is there anything substantial that lends to your case?

Good luck on your defense. I have done several cases like yours. If you need additional help, let me know. Please let us know what your progress is.

 

[wired]

GPS Report and Speed: I don't know but that's what I'll be checking out tonight! Thanks for the heads up on it (I just bought it so I don't know the 'ins and outs' of it yet. I don't know about substantial but I transcribed it for myself this weekend and put it down in journal format. It's below. It's long, sorry.

I can tell you this much. He was exceptionally rude. I didn’t argue with him once. I didn’t hear him when he approached from the passenger side since I was expecting him on the driver’s side and my head was turned that way so I asked him to repeat himself. There was a great deal of freeway noise. He leaned into the car (as in stuck his head in and very loudly yelled “I said, Driver’s license, registration, and insurance”. I may have mixed up the order of that instruction. I gave him my driver’s license on the spot and started looking for my registration and insurance in my glove compartment. Then I asked him why. He said “I’m citing you for crossing the ‘double yellow lines’ and speeding. You brought this on yourself. I slowed down to give you a chance and you just wanted to get around to speed” I attempted to say “I’ve never in my life…” and he cut me off with “I don’t want to hear it. I’ll see you in court”. Then he walked away with my license. I’ll admit and will plead guilty to the speeding if necessary but I will not plead guilty to the double yellow lines since I have NEVER broken that rule, with or without passengers in the carpool lane. I had my insurance paperwork ready when he came back to the window and was still looking for my registration (sorry, I had a mess in my glove compartment). He said “Hand over your registration or I’m citing you for that too”. I found it a moment later, copied on the same piece of paper as the insurance on the bottom. I handed it to him and he said “This isn’t the original’. You’re supposed to have the original”. I said, “The paperwork that came with the registration said to keep a copy with you and put the original in a safe place” He said “What paperwork?”. I said, “The paperwork that comes in the envelope with the registration”. He said, “Fair enough” and didn’t write me up for that. Then he handed me the ticket (or whatever you call it) and said “Sign here. This is not an admission of guilt, just an indication that you will appear”. I took the clipboard from him and started reading. I’m not the fastest reader and he got impatient after about 30 seconds. He leaned back into the car, and tapped the area by the signature area and said “Sign here”. I said, “I’m almost done reading. I never sign anything before reading it”. This is the point where I think he was exceptionally rude. He yanked the clipboard out of my hand and said “It doesn’t take more than a couple of minutes to read. You’re making a point. Step out of the car and come to this side.” I then turned my head towards the left side to check traffic before exiting the car. Then he leaned into the car and again said, “You’re making a point. You’re heading to work, right?” I indicated yes by nodding my head (I was actually on my way to a volunteer thing but I wasn’t going to get into this with him). He said, “Let me go over this for you.” And then he proceeding to sarcastically go over each item on the paper in the order of the area he had to fill out. His next statements went like this: “This is a traffic citation. This is the city we are in. This is the time. This is the date. This is your first name. This is your last name.” He paused for a few seconds here in the recitation to ask me, “Do you understand so far?” Then he again proceeded, “This is the address. This is your city, state and zip. This is your driver’s license number. This is the state where it was issued. This is the class of your license. This is your age. This is your date of birth. This indicates you are female. This says you have brown hair. This says you have brown eyes. This is your height. This is your weight. “ He skipped over race. Then started with “This is your vehicle license number. This is the year of the vehicle. This is the make of your car. This is the color of your vehicle.” Then he paused a moment to check the boxes that say ‘Same as driver’. Again he started with, “This indicates the car is registered to you. This is your violation code. This indicates it is an infraction. This is your approximate speed. This is the speed limit, it’s not 75, it’s 65. This is the location where the violation took place, on the 5 Fwy, North of XXX. “ He skipped the weather portion and proceeded to “This is my name and my “something (I can't hear this word though I’m guessing badge) number. This is the date by which you will receive a copy of the ticket by mail. This is the court where you can challenge this and this is where you are supposed to sign. Did you understand everything yet?” and handed me the clipboard. I said back, “Yes, before you took the clipboard from me I was almost finished and was simply going to say that is not my age”. He took the clipboard back and said “You are correct, no harm, I made you younger. He made the correction then handed the clipboard back to me. I signed it and gave it back to him. He tore of my copy and again said, “I’ll be happy to see you in court. The speed limit is 65. I’ll be following you to make sure.” I said, “I’ll definitely be there” and he walked away. I proceeded to merge back into traffic until I got to my exit and then went about my business before heading for work.

 

[Zigner]

GPS Report and Speed: I don't know but that's what I'll be checking out tonight! Thanks for the heads up on it (I just bought it so I don't know the 'ins and outs' of it yet. I don't know about substantial but I transcribed it for myself this weekend and put it down in journal format. It's below. It's long, sorry.

I can tell you this much. He was exceptionally rude. I didn’t argue with him once. I didn’t hear him when he approached from the passenger side since I was expecting him on the driver’s side and my head was turned that way so I asked him to repeat himself. There was a great deal of freeway noise. He leaned into the car (as in stuck his head in and very loudly yelled “I said, Driver’s license, registration, and insurance”. I may have mixed up the order of that instruction. I gave him my driver’s license on the spot and started looking for my registration and insurance in my glove compartment. Then I asked him why. He said “I’m citing you for crossing the ‘double yellow lines’ and speeding. You brought this on yourself. I slowed down to give you a chance and you just wanted to get around to speed” I attempted to say “I’ve never in my life…” and he cut me off with “I don’t want to hear it. I’ll see you in court”. Then he walked away with my license. I’ll admit and will plead guilty to the speeding if necessary but I will not plead guilty to the double yellow lines since I have NEVER broken that rule, with or without passengers in the carpool lane. I had my insurance paperwork ready when he came back to the window and was still looking for my registration (sorry, I had a mess in my glove compartment). He said “Hand over your registration or I’m citing you for that too”. I found it a moment later, copied on the same piece of paper as the insurance on the bottom. I handed it to him and he said “This isn’t the original’. You’re supposed to have the original”. I said, “The paperwork that came with the registration said to keep a copy with you and put the original in a safe place” He said “What paperwork?”. I said, “The paperwork that comes in the envelope with the registration”. He said, “Fair enough” and didn’t write me up for that. Then he handed me the ticket (or whatever you call it) and said “Sign here. This is not an admission of guilt, just an indication that you will appear”. I took the clipboard from him and started reading. I’m not the fastest reader and he got impatient after about 30 seconds. He leaned back into the car, and tapped the area by the signature area and said “Sign here”. I said, “I’m almost done reading. I never sign anything before reading it”. This is the point where I think he was exceptionally rude. He yanked the clipboard out of my hand and said “It doesn’t take more than a couple of minutes to read. You’re making a point. Step out of the car and come to this side.” I then turned my head towards the left side to check traffic before exiting the car. Then he leaned into the car and again said, “You’re making a point. You’re heading to work, right?” I indicated yes by nodding my head (I was actually on my way to a volunteer thing but I wasn’t going to get into this with him). He said, “Let me go over this for you.” And then he proceeding to sarcastically go over each item on the paper in the order of the area he had to fill out. His next statements went like this: “This is a traffic citation. This is the city we are in. This is the time. This is the date. This is your first name. This is your last name.” He paused for a few seconds here in the recitation to ask me, “Do you understand so far?” Then he again proceeded, “This is the address. This is your city, state and zip. This is your driver’s license number. This is the state where it was issued. This is the class of your license. This is your age. This is your date of birth. This indicates you are female. This says you have brown hair. This says you have brown eyes. This is your height. This is your weight. “ He skipped over race. Then started with “This is your vehicle license number. This is the year of the vehicle. This is the make of your car. This is the color of your vehicle.” Then he paused a moment to check the boxes that say ‘Same as driver’. Again he started with, “This indicates the car is registered to you. This is your violation code. This indicates it is an infraction. This is your approximate speed. This is the speed limit, it’s not 75, it’s 65. This is the location where the violation took place, on the 5 Fwy, North of XXX. “ He skipped the weather portion and proceeded to “This is my name and my “something (I can't hear this word though I’m guessing badge) number. This is the date by which you will receive a copy of the ticket by mail. This is the court where you can challenge this and this is where you are supposed to sign. Did you understand everything yet?” and handed me the clipboard. I said back, “Yes, before you took the clipboard from me I was almost finished and was simply going to say that is not my age”. He took the clipboard back and said “You are correct, no harm, I made you younger. He made the correction then handed the clipboard back to me. I signed it and gave it back to him. He tore of my copy and again said, “I’ll be happy to see you in court. The speed limit is 65. I’ll be following you to make sure.” I said, “I’ll definitely be there” and he walked away. I proceeded to merge back into traffic until I got to my exit and then went about my business before heading for work.

Please point out where the officer was rude...

 

[JIMinCA]

Wired,

Don't get too wrapped around the axle about the rude cop. According to your transcript, he was pretty condescending. But that is not a legal issue. That could be the grounds for you filing a complaint with his supervisor. However, try not to let emotion lead you in your legal defense.

Also, ignore those who only post on this site to offer sarcastic responses to legitimate issues.

 

[wired]

zigner - You mean the comments he made about my race and ethnic background? I excluded them from my recap below since it doesn't belong here and I personally don't want to offend anyone. Also I don't want that information out in a forum like this in case it harms my case in any way.

JIMinCA - Thank you for the advice and encouragement. And yes, I will ignore them. If always interests me when people respond in a help forum and don't actually offer any. Human beings are very interesting all in all...

 

[Zigner]

zigner - You mean the comments he made about my race and ethnic background? I excluded them from my recap below since it doesn't belong here and I personally don't want to offend anyone. Also I don't want that information out in a forum like this in case it harms my case in any way.

You said the officer was rude. You said you have an edetic memory. So, it was safe for me to ASSume that you posted the entire exchange, word-for-word. NOW you come back saying that you left stuff out.

What else have you left out?

Good luck with Jim's advice - it's your only hope.

 

[JIMinCA]

Good luck with Jim's advice - it's your only hope.

If that is to imply that you are frustrated with the fact that the OP is grateful of my attempt to help vice your attempt to jeer and poke, then I too wish the OP good luck.

Remember what your mother taught you (or most mothers), "if you don't have something positive to say, keep your mouth shut". The OP makes a good observation that this is a help forum and there are those who post frequently, yet offer not help.

 

[Zigner]

If that is to imply that you are frustrated with the fact that the OP is grateful of my attempt to help vice your attempt to jeer and poke, then I too wish the OP good luck.

Remember what your mother taught you (or most mothers), "if you don't have something positive to say, keep your mouth shut". The OP makes a good observation that this is a help forum and there are those who post frequently, yet offer not help.

I offer reality. I am even more convinced now than ever that our OP did, in fact, commit the offense they are charged with. I am not implying that I am frustrated that the OP is grateful with the offer of help. I could care less. Just tell me this Jim - at the end of the day, after the state has given all the evidence, as asked/required...what does our OP have to fall back on?

 

[JIMinCA]

I offer reality. I am even more convinced now than ever that our OP did, in fact, commit the offense they are charged with. I am not implying that I am frustrated that the OP is grateful with the offer of help. I could care less. Just tell me this Jim - at the end of the day, after the state has given all the evidence, as asked/required...what does our OP have to fall back on?

This is NOT a "reality site"... it is a help site. People don't come here looking for reality lessons.

When/if the state provides all the evidence it is obligate to provide, the OP can better determine a strategy for a defense. I'm surprised that simple concept eludes you.

 

[Zigner]

This is NOT a "reality site"... it is a help site. People don't come here looking for reality lessons.

When/if the state provides all the evidence it is obligate to provide, the OP can better determine a strategy for a defense. I'm surprised that simple concept eludes you.

Ok, then I'll repeat my question (but I don't expect you to have an answer):
Just tell me this Jim - at the end of the day, after the state has given all the evidence, as asked/required...what does our OP have to fall back on?

 

[JIMinCA]

Ok, then I'll repeat my question (but I don't expect you to have an answer):
Just tell me this Jim - at the end of the day, after the state has given all the evidence, as asked/required...what does our OP have to fall back on?

1) In order to formulate a defense strategy, you need to know what evidence the prosecution has. Hence, the need for discovery.

2) I already told you that... once again, the obvious seems to be elusive

3) Didn't you say in a previous post that you were done with me? Can't you just stick to that and stop polluting these threads with worthless commentary on other people's posts?

 

[Zigner]

1) In order to formulate a defense strategy, you need to know what evidence the prosecution has. Hence, the need for discovery.

2) I already told you that... once again, the obvious seems to be elusive

3) Didn't you say in a previous post that you were done with me? Can't you just stick to that and stop polluting these threads with worthless commentary on other people's posts?

As I thought...you have no answer.