Speed Trap Scam

[artbuc]

What is the name of your state? PA

Yesterday I was stopped by township cop for doing 52/35. He asked me if he had stopped me before. I said no. He told me he was going to give me a break. If I paid the fine upfront, pled guilty and appeared in Court, he would say I was only going 40. This would save me from getting 4 points.

How can he make this offer? Wouldn't the Judge say to him "WTF? Why are you telling me he was going 40 when your radar said 52?"

If the cop wanted to give me a break, why wouldn't he just give me a warning?

The whole thing sounds like a scam. I'm sure I was going over 35 but do not believe I was going 52 - I would say more like 45 although I don't know for sure and certainly can't prove it.

 

[fairisfair]

I would go to court and DEMAND a ticket for going 45 miles per hour, hell, make it 52 mph.

After all, THAT would be justice.

 

[loulblades]

I am a little confused.

If you plead guilty and pay the fine "upfront", you would most likely not go to court (unless there are other circumstances) but by then you would have plead guilty to whatever is on the ticket. What is the speed on the ticket? If you plead not guilty and take your hearing and meet with the officer beforehand, he could get the magistrate to take the 40.

What equipment was used (ENRADD - VASCAR) and where did this take place. There are most likely other defenses available.

I got a ticket a couple years ago (52 in a 35) and I have talked to several other people that also got local tickets for the same thing. Seems like 52 is a magic number for local cops to use.

 

[artbuc]

I am a little confused.

If you plead guilty and pay the fine "upfront", you would most likely not go to court (unless there are other circumstances) but by then you would have plead guilty to whatever is on the ticket. What is the speed on the ticket? If you plead not guilty and take your hearing and meet with the officer beforehand, he could get the magistrate to take the 40.

What equipment was used (ENRADD - VASCAR) and where did this take place. There are most likely other defenses available.

I got a ticket a couple years ago (52 in a 35) and I have talked to several other people that also got local tickets for the same thing. Seems like 52 is a magic number for local cops to use.

Sorry. I meant to say "if I plead not guilty". I have to send them $152 fine plus $7 when I plead not guilty. Equipment used was ENRADD. This took place in Delaware County, Radnor Township. If the magistrate agrees to 40, I will not get points according to the cop. I don't know if the fine will be reduced.

 

[loulblades]

This is kinda interesting because I don't know what they are going to do about the fine. In a situation where the speed is reduced, the fine is also reduced.

In PA, 40 in a 35 isn't speeding so I don't know how they will work the fine. Maybe you will have to pay in cash directly to the judge. IMHO if you can pay a fine and get no points I would do it and be more careful when going through that area.

I would also be prepared to defend myself when going to court though. You can do a search on my previous posts to find info I have posted in this regard. If you need any other help, feel free to send me a message directly.

 

[Zigner]

In PA, 40 in a 35 isn't speeding

On what do you base this statement?

 

[loulblades]

On what do you base this statement?

You would have to make me look it up.

§ 3368. Speed timing devices.

(c) Mechanical, electrical and electronic devices authorized.--

Except as otherwise provided in this section, the rate of speed of any vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police officer using a mechanical or electrical speed timing device.
Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), electronic devices such as radio-microwave devices (commonly referred to as electronic speed meters or radar) may be used only by members of the Pennsylvania State Police.
Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points may be used by any police officer.
No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) within a school zone.

 

[Zigner]

You would have to make me look it up.

§ 3368. Speed timing devices.

(c) Mechanical, electrical and electronic devices authorized.--

Except as otherwise provided in this section, the rate of speed of any vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police officer using a mechanical or electrical speed timing device.
Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3), electronic devices such as radio-microwave devices (commonly referred to as electronic speed meters or radar) may be used only by members of the Pennsylvania State Police.
Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points may be used by any police officer.
No person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraphs (2) and (3) unless the speed recorded is six or more miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. Furthermore, no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) within a school zone.

Now, post the ENTIRE section...not just a small portion of it.


Edit:
Let me help -

(a) Speedometers authorized.--The rate of speed of any
vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police officer using a
motor vehicle equipped with a speedometer. In ascertaining the
speed of a vehicle by the use of a speedometer, the speed shall
be timed for a distance of not less than three-tenths of a mile.

So, your information is only partially correct. A person CAN be convicted of speeding at 1 mph over, if said person is paced.

 

[loulblades]

Now, post the ENTIRE section...not just a small portion of it.


Edit:
Let me help -

(a) Speedometers authorized.--The rate of speed of any
vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police officer using a
motor vehicle equipped with a speedometer. In ascertaining the
speed of a vehicle by the use of a speedometer, the speed shall
be timed for a distance of not less than three-tenths of a mile.

So, your information is only partially correct. A person CAN be convicted of speeding at 1 mph over, if said person is paced.

Not sure I see the 1 mile over part.

 

[Zigner]

Not sure I see the 1 mile over part.

It's not there at all which means it's not illegal to cite someone for 1 mph over if they pace you.

And, just to make my example easier for you to understand.

If they pace they can cite for 1mph over, or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5...

Get it?

 

[loulblades]

Ok but since the speed was measured with ENRADD I am not sure what you are getting at.

 

[Zigner]

Ok but since the speed was measured with ENRADD I am not sure what you are getting at.

I was basing it on your BLANKET statement:

In PA, 40 in a 35 isn't speeding

 

[loulblades]

And I was responding to a poster (and his situation).

BTW the 5 MPH leeway (over 55) and 10 (under) doesn't apply under certain other conditions which, at least according to info provided by the OP, didn't apply.

 

[Zigner]

And I was responding to a poster (and his situation).

Then, instead of a blanket statement, something along the lines of "If you're under 10mph over the limit and measured with ENRADD, you can't be convicted" would be more appropriate.

I'm just offering constructive advice

 

[artbuc]

Epilogue

What is the name of your state? PA

Yesterday I was stopped by township cop for doing 52/35. He asked me if he had stopped me before. I said no. He told me he was going to give me a break. If I paid the fine upfront, pled guilty and appeared in Court, he would say I was only going 40. This would save me from getting 4 points.

How can he make this offer? Wouldn't the Judge say to him "WTF? Why are you telling me he was going 40 when your radar said 52?"

If the cop wanted to give me a break, why wouldn't he just give me a warning?

The whole thing sounds like a scam. I'm sure I was going over 35 but do not believe I was going 52 - I would say more like 45 although I don't know for sure and certainly can't prove it.

Pled not guilty and posted $152 fine plus $7 court fee as collateral. Went to Court and discovered there were about 20 folks there who were caught in the same trap on the same day. The Township cop made a group announcement that we could plea guilty to doing 40/35 which would cause no points and we would get a "small" amount of money back. He did a roll call and we all individually accepted the deal. The Judge came in and we went before him one by one to consumate the deal. We got $33 back. All in all, a pretty sweet money-making scam for Radnor Township.

BTW, there were a half dozen cases there involving PA State Police. The State troopers offered their violators the same kind of deal, eg a guy was going 89/55 and the Trooper offered to reduce it to 65/55.

The Judge made an interesting comment to one of the violators. He said that it was the Trooper who wrote the ticket so the Trooper has the final say as to how fast the violator was actually going. This answered one of my questions. Yes, the cop can make pretty much any kind of a deal he wants to. This makes sense when you realize that the cop can give you a warning ticket. So, always be polite and respectful to the cop who stops you.