Wrongfully issued parking violation for no standing, please help.

[HighwayMan]

its not how the vehicle is deemed that matters, its how its used, U think? (used as equipment or enjoyed as personal goods)

No, I don't think. It does not matter what the vehicle is being used for.

your honor, its my understanding, the vehicle being deemed commercial or non-commercial was an arbitrary guess by the officer,

It is not an arbitrary guess. It is obvious to see how the vehicle is equipped and it is an objective observation.

what facts stated by the plaintiff under oath with personal first hand knowledge on the court record prove the vehicle was not being used in commerce or as commercial equipment ?

The officer had direct, first-hand knowledge of the vehicle.

And again, it does not matter what the vehicle is used for.


I don't understand how this "user" can continue to pollute this forum with total nonsense, wasting everyone's time and possibly misleading readers and nothing is done about it.

 

[Dillon]

Really? Really?

I'm having flashbacks to Clinton and the definition of "is" and "sex" ... sorry, Dillon, but the court is NOT going to play that game. Fortunately, I suspect the OP has enough sense NOT to try and play word games with the court should it get to that level.

REALLY REALLY

Could you please post the definition of deemed as it appears in the code,

THANKS

 

[Dillon]

No, I don't think. It does not matter what the vehicle is being used for.


It is not an arbitrary guess. It is obvious to see how the vehicle is equipped and it is an objective observation.


The officer had direct, first-hand knowledge of the vehicle. (so does the OP)


I don't understand how wasting everyone's time and possibly misleading readers .

If it doesnt matter what it is used for, we will deem it used in commerce.


Equipment is a commercial term, like commercial business equipment.


To bad the officer is not the plaintiff (the state is the plaintiff with no direct first hand knowledge of the facts,) the officer is only an observer.


Post where the word deemed is defined in the code or quit wasting everyone's time

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[FlyingRon]

With all due respect to Ron, the vehicle must also be a truck - commercial plates alone do not make a vehicle a truck. Even if the vehicle was marked, had no seats, etc. it must still be a truck.

The poster already said it was a truck. The note on the citation said "not a commercial vehicle" so I explained why his truck was not considered by NYC to be a commercial vehicle.

Here is what NYC deems to be a truck:

vehicle or combination of vehicles designed for the transportation of property that has the following characteristics:
two axles and six tires, or;
three or more axles​

 

[Dillon]

The poster already said it was a truck. The note on the citation said "not a commercial vehicle" so I explained why his truck was not considered by NYC to be a commercial vehicle.

Here is what NYC deems/thinks to be a truck: (commercial)

vehicle or combination of vehicles designed for the transportation of property that has the following characteristics:
two axles and six tires, or;
three or more axles​

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transportation means used in commerce like commercial motor vehicle equipment


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Transportation - Webster's Unified Dictionary and Encyclopedia, International Illustrated Edition (1960)

1. The act or business of moving passengers and goods. 2. The means of conveyance used. 3. Banishment, esp. of convicts to a penal colony.

Transportation - Black's 6th

The movement of goods or persons from one place to another, by a carrier.

Transportation - 49 U.S.C. § 5102(12)

"transports" or "transportation" means the movement of property and loading, unloading, or storage incidental to the movement.

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Transportation - Words and Phrases

See State v. Western Trans Co. (1950, Iowa) 43 N.W.2d 739 [The judge, after giving his conclusion, goes on to give examples of "transportation" - all involving the movement of persons or goods for hire.]

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[Dillon]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

He comes to the city to purchase items for his business. I am not sure what document is needed to show the vehicle is commercial. The numbers of the plate itself should be good.

Thank you for the help.

if this OP's vehicle is designed and used for business transportation, its consider/deemed commercial motor vehicle business equipment

the OP uses his vehicle for his business activity

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just because a plane is classified commercial jet does not mean I cant use my other (smaller plane-not classified as commercial jet) Both planes are commercially used planes, but one is a lot smaller with less power than the other one.


commercial is just a name deemed for larger business equipment but smaller business equipment is automatically commercial but not deemed named so.

What make something commercial transportation is whether it is used as for-profit business equipment.

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Like a non-profit organization and a for-profit organization are both businesses , but only one is named/deemed a non-profit business even through both can lose money and not make a profit in a year.

motor vehicle business equipment deemed/classed/or considered as a non-commercial motor vehicle is still business equipment, but it is just used by and registered to a non-profit business organization.

commercial = used for profit and non-commercial = used not-for profit, but both are used by persons doing business in a State.

business = a corporate person/artificial person/legal fiction.

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its easy to understand, isn't it ? - (I hope this helps)

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[Dillon]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

Complainant's comments: Not Commercial Vehicle.

Thank you for the help.

all the OP has to do is show the judge he was employed by or the owner/operator of a vehicle registered to a For Profit business organization at the time of the traffic stop.

the person operating or the paid driver of a for-profit company means the registered motor vehicle was used as commercial business equipment when he got this citation.

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the only way you can be operating or driving a registered non commercial vehicle is if you were the owner/operator or paid driver of a non-profit organization at the time of the citation.

How is the officer going to prove that on the court record?

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[Isis1]

could you please post the definition of deemed as it appears in the code,

thanks

you are being an idiot. on purpose. the codes are not going to have a definition for every single word.

it still doesn't change the fact that you are STILL wrong.

the guy was not following the NY law on commercial vehicles. you still have to follow the law in the jurisdiction that you are in. and if state statutes says you have to be listed a certain way, it does not matter WHERE your business is or where your vehicle is registered.

 

[davew128]

the guy was not following the NY law on commercial vehicles. you still have to follow the law in the jurisdiction that you are in. and if state statutes says you have to be listed a certain way, it does not matter WHERE your business is or where your vehicle is registered.

I will disagree with you on constitutional grounds. An out of state commercial vehicle in compliance with its home states laws for being a commercial vehicle should be allowed recognition for that if it is conducting business in NY.

Both the dormant commerce clause and full faith and credit clause come into play here.

None of which does anything to validate villain, er Dillon's nonsense.

 

[Dillon]

I will disagree with you on constitutional grounds. An out of state commercial vehicle in compliance with its home states laws for being a commercial vehicle should be allowed recognition for that if it is conducting business in NY.

Both the dormant commerce clause and full faith and credit clause come into play here.

None of which does anything to validate villain, er Dillon's nonsense.

Does this OP hold a federal CDL issued by his home state or a state operators license? if he is driving a commmercial vehicle it has to hold a CDL, Right?

if the OP's vehicle is not registered/not deemed a non-commercial vehicle by his home state, then by definition the OP has to be operating a commercial vehicle, U think?

if something is either black or white and its registered as black in his home state. then it cant be considered/deemed white in NY, can it?

if i am not driving, a non-commercial vehicle, I must only be driving a commercial vehicle when driving this vehicle, Right? it only one or the other, make up you mind.

think about that, LOL

thanks

 

[Dillon]

it still doesn't change the fact that you are STILL wrong.

the guy was not following the NY law on commercial vehicles. you still have to follow the law in the jurisdiction that you are in.

Thanks for admitting, this OP was operating a registered commercial vehicle, because he is only required to obey this NY law, when he is specifically operating it as a commercial vehicle?

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so, the OP should have been cited for no NY operators license, too?

so, it does not matter either, that the OP has a Federal CDL, as he has no NY issued license, Right?

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the jurisdiction is the united states for commercial vehicles and CDL's.

interstate commerce is a federal jurisdiction.

wasnt this OP's commercial motor vehicle business equipment registered in the United States? LOL

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[romeo0o]

The commercial vehicle cited is a Ford Econoline E250 with a valid Michigan State commercial plate.

The driver also has a Michigan State Driver's License.

My uncle drove to NY to purchase restaurant goods for his restaurant in Michigan from a company he's been dealing with for all his previous restaurant businesses.

It was stopped to load items to bring back. He doesn't speak affluent English but enough to be able to plead to the officer that his vehicle is indeed a commercial vehicle.

I always thought things like car tint are to be followed by the state the vehicle is registered to. For example, some states require 2 license plates while others require 1.

If he has to follow NY law regarding commercial vehicles, then wouldn't he have to follow NY law regarding 2 license plates? However, Michigan only offers 1. In that sense, just because he's travelling through states that require 2, he is breaking the law and there's nothing he can do about it because his state only gives 1 out.

 

[CdwJava]

The commercial vehicle cited is a Ford Econoline E250 with a valid Michigan State commercial plate.

The driver also has a Michigan State Driver's License.

My uncle drove to NY to purchase restaurant goods for his restaurant in Michigan from a company he's been dealing with for all his previous restaurant businesses.

It was stopped to load items to bring back. He doesn't speak affluent English but enough to be able to plead to the officer that his vehicle is indeed a commercial vehicle.

I always thought things like car tint are to be followed by the state the vehicle is registered to. For example, some states require 2 license plates while others require 1.

If he has to follow NY law regarding commercial vehicles, then wouldn't he have to follow NY law regarding 2 license plates? However, Michigan only offers 1. In that sense, just because he's travelling through states that require 2, he is breaking the law and there's nothing he can do about it because his state only gives 1 out.

But, he was not cited for window tint (which would generally have to conform to the registered state). He was cited for stopping or standing where prohibited and he was not a commercial truck engaged in the delivery of goods.

4-08(k)(2):

(1) Parking of unaltered commercial vehicles prohibited. No person shall
stand or park a vehicle with commercial plates in any location unless it has been
permanently altered with all seats and rear seat fittings, except the front seats,
removed, except that for vehicles designed with a passenger cab and a cargo
area separated by a partition, the seating capacity within the cab shall not be
considered in determining whether the vehicle is properly altered, and has the
name and address of the owner as shown on the registration certificate plainly
marked on both sides of the vehicle in letters and numerals not less than three
inches in height, in compliance with § 10-127 of the Administrative Code and is
also in compliance with paragraph (i) of the definition of commercial vehicle as
set forth in § 4-01 of these rules.

(2) No Standing Except Trucks Loading and Unloading. Where a posted sign
reads "No Standing Except Trucks Loading and Unloading," no vehicle except a
commercial vehicle or a service vehicle as defined in § 4-01(b) of these rules,
may stand or park in that area, for the purpose of expeditiously making pickups,
deliveries or service calls, and except that in the area from 35th St. to 41st St.,
Avenue of the Americas to 8th Avenue, inclusive, in the Borough of Manhattan,
between the hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., no vehicle except a truck as defined in §
4-13(a)(1) of these rules may stand or park for the purpose of expeditiously
making pickups, deliveries or service calls.​

And for commercial truck:

Commercial vehicle.
(i) For the purposes of parking, standing and stopping rules, a vehicle
shall not be deemed a commercial vehicle or a truck unless:
(A) it bears commercial plates; and
(B) it is permanently altered by having all seats and seat
fittings, except the front seats, removed to facilitate the
transportation of property, except that for vehicles designed with a
passenger cab and a cargo area separated by a partition, the
seating capacity within the cab shall not be considered in
determining whether the vehicle is properly altered; and
(C) it displays the registrant's name and address permanently
affixed in characters at least three inches high on both sides of the
vehicle, with such display being in a color contrasting with that of
Section 4-01
2
the vehicle and placed approximately midway vertically on doors
or side panels.
(ii) For the purposes of rules other than parking, stopping and standing
rules, a vehicle designed, maintained, or used primarily for the
transportation of property, or for the provision of commercial services and
bearing commercial plates shall be deemed a commercial vehicle.
(iii) Vehicles bearing commercial or equivalent registration plates from
other states or countries shall not be deemed trucks or commercial
vehicles unless they are permanently altered and marked as required in
(i)(B) and (C) of this definition, above.​

 

[romeo0o]

Thanks CdwJava.

So according to this:

(ii) For the purposes of rules other than parking, stopping and standing
rules, a vehicle designed, maintained, or used primarily for the
transportation of property, or for the provision of commercial services and
bearing commercial plates shall be deemed a commercial vehicle.
(iii) Vehicles bearing commercial or equivalent registration plates from
other states or countries shall not be deemed trucks or commercial
vehicles unless they are permanently altered and marked as required in
(i)(B) and (C) of this definition, above.

Michigan commercial vehicles abiding by Michigan Motor Vehicle Laws can be cited for standing at such zones in NY whereas NY commercial vehicles won't be.

I don't think it's fair but what can you do. I'll tell him to pay it.

Thanks for the help guys. I do appreciate it.

 

[Dillon]

The commercial vehicle cited is a Ford Econoline E250 with a valid Michigan State commercial plate.

The driver also has a Michigan State Driver's License.

I always thought things like car tint (registration) are to be followed by the state the vehicle is registered to. For example, some states require 2 license plates while others require 1.

If he has to follow NY law regarding commercial vehicles, then wouldn't he have to follow NY law regarding 2 license plates? However, Michigan only offers 1. In that sense, just because he's travelling through states that require 2, he is breaking the law and there's nothing he can do about it because his state only gives 1 out.

if, the driver holds a valid CDL, he doesnt need to hold a Michigan Operators License.

ONLY, Paid Drivers or Owner/Operators of registered commercial vehicles are legally required to follow any NY laws specifically governing commercial motor vehicle business equipment, no matter what state they are from.

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FYI:

if, anyone is moving their non-registered and non-commercial private property on a public common easement (designed for the movement of their private property to access their land),

How is any state issued CDL or Operators license even required by any officer,

since they are not Operating registered motor vehicle business/commercial equipment on government property?

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WOW

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