Can a public school prohibit students from "taking the Lord's name in vain?"

[adensdad]

Can a public school prohibit students from "taking the Lord's name in vain?"

Michigan resident here. Any help would be appreciated.

My ten year old son- who is an atheist- was recently reprimanded and punished by his public school principal because he ended a sententence with "jesus christ" during recess while speaking to some other boys. Is a public school allowed to make such a rule? If not what resources can I take to reverse this policy? Thank you.

 

[Proserpina]

Michigan resident here. Any help would be appreciated.

My ten year old son- who is an atheist- was recently reprimanded and punished by his public school principal because he ended a sententence with "jesus christ" during recess while speaking to some other boys. Is a public school allowed to make such a rule? If not what resources can I take to reverse this policy? Thank you.

Tell us first what he actually said (if there are cuss words involved, you can hint - no need to type out the whole thing), in what context, and then tell us what happened when you talked to the school?

 

[adensdad]

I do not know what he specifically said, nor does the principal. She told me he said something to another student and ended the sentence with "Jesus christ." Like, "why did you take the ball? Jesus christ." The student he was speaking to then told him he can't say that because he can't take the lords name in vain. My son replied "Yes I can. I'm an atheist."
An argument then occurred between my son and the student he was speaking to, where the other student chastized my son for not believing in god. The two students took their discussion to the principal and the principal reprimanded and punished my son for taking the Lord's name in vain at school by denying him recesses. Later on this same student who my son said "Jesus Christ" to taunted him about his atheist beliefs and my son mooned him.

Yes, he mooned him.

The teacher called me and told me that I needed to pick up my son from school because he was suspended the rest of the day. He also failed character ed class and is not allowed to go to recess for the rest of the week.

When I arrived at the school I told the principal she behaved appropriately in response to the "mooning" incident. It was very odd behavior for my son. The teacher and myself both had a talk with my son about his conduct. I thanked her then took my son home and told my son he would be grounded. As we were driving home, my son informed me of some other details that the principal hadn't.

The principal had not told me about the religious discussion which had occurred between my son and this other boy, nor that the boy had taunted my son for being an atheist. She had only told me that he had mooned another boy. The way she had said it, it seemed like he did it out of nowhere for no reason.

I called the principal back and asked her some more questions. She informed me that Aden took the Lords name in vain and she reprimanded him and punished him for that along with the mooning incident. She told me it is against the rules at the school to take the Lords name in vain. She also told me she had a discussion with both children about tolerance but only my son was punished. Although I don't agree with the "lords name in vain" rule I did not argue with her. I told her Aden was going to be grounded and thanked her for handling the matter and being cooperative in giving me more information. I also do not disagree with the fact the other boy was not punished, although I do feel he should have been spoken to about bullying.

I have no problem with the punishments. My son needs to learn better ways of handling disagreements and obviously exposing oneself in public is a serious matter. I simply feel the "no lords name in vain" rule violates the separation between church and state and would like to see what I can do, if anything, to stop the policy.

 

[Proseguru]

Its a curse. And yes, the school can discipline him.

 

[adensdad]

That's disappointing to hear. This school system has a history of this sort of thing. The children also sing "away in a manger" during the christmas program and display christian tracts in the hallway. I also very much doubt my son would have been reprimanded for taking Allah or Zeuses name in vain.

Thank you.

 

[I'mTheFather]

That's disappointing to hear. This school system has a history of this sort of thing. The children also sing "away in a manger" during the christmas program and display christian tracts in the hallway. I also very much doubt my son would have been reprimanded for taking Allah or Zeuses name in vain.

Thank you.

If the school has a significant Islamic population, then your son would most likely be reprimanded for using Allah's name in a way that is disrespectful to Muslims. It isn't about swearing, in my opinion, but about disrespecting cultural differences.

For the same reason that your son was suspended from recess, I think the other boy should have had the same consequence. He disrespected your son's beliefs when he chastised him for not believing in God.

If you want to change the school system's perceived advocacy of Christian beliefs, then you might want to contact the ACLU.

 

[FlyingRon]

You son was apparently NOT punished for taking the name in vain but for an act which would certainly be treated as a CRIMINAL ACT (indecent exposure) if he had done outside of the school.\

You and your son needs to realize two things:

1. If you say offensive things to people, that is your right, but you must deal with them retaliating in kind. The first amendment works both ways.

2. He needs to learn appropriate acts to deal with things that offend him. Committing lewd acts in response to spoken discourse is not appropriate.

750.335a Indecent exposure; violation; penalty.

Sec. 335a.

(1) A person shall not knowingly make any open or indecent exposure of his or her person or of the person of another.

(2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a crime, as follows:

(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b) or (c), the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(b) If the person was fondling his or her genitals, pubic area, buttocks, or, if the person is female, breasts, while violating subsection (1), the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(c) If the person was at the time of the violation a sexually delinquent person, the violation is punishable by imprisonment for an indeterminate term, the minimum of which is 1 day and the maximum of which is life.​

 

[pbminor]

I agree with the above poster. I would be more concerned with the indecent exposure. Many years ago when I was a child, we would do things like "pantsing" a kid. It was all fun and games, not a sexual thought of any sort. Now a days they would send a 7 year old to jail for sexual battery if that happened.
As far as religion and public school, you might want to teach your child to be strong in his believes. Christianity is taking over our public schools and we don't even know it. Google the "Good News Club". It's a christian after school program that's infiltrating our schools through the use of lies and deception. However, it doesn't stay after school. Their main focus is peer evangelism. They use a public school setting to teach children that they and all their friends and family will go to hell if they don't accept Jesus. Then they insist it the kids job to spread the word so they can save their family/friends. My second grade granddaughter is not even in the group, yet she came home from her public school with a children's bible.

 

[Ohiogal]

Its a curse. And yes, the school can discipline him.

No it is not. A public school can not punish a child for "taking the lord's name in vain" -- that whole constitution thing.

However the MOONING incident is a criminal act as another poster stated. The issue is not that the child was punished but rather than the principal punished the child for the comment "Jesus Christ" and THEN punished the mooning -- two different punishments. Both children should have been punished for the argument -- if either -- and the child should have been punished for the mooning.

 

[Silverplum]

Does your son regularly refer to "people" in whom he does not believe?

If he stubs his toe, does he say, "Oh, Easter Bunny!"

If he falls off his bike, does he exclaim, "Sweet Unicorns of Ireland!"


Or does he use the name "Jesus Christ" because it's an offensive-to-many curse word when used in that manner?

 

[Ohiogal]

Does your son regularly refer to "people" in whom he does not believe?

If he stubs his toe, does he say, "Oh, Easter Bunny!"

If he falls off his bike, does he exclaim, "Sweet Unicorns of Ireland!"


Or does he use the name "Jesus Christ" because it's an offensive-to-many curse word when used in that manner?

Oh puppy presents on the rug. Silver, love you dearly but leave my Sweet Unicorn horns out of this. They aren't in Ireland but in my garage and I really really don't appreciate you revealing that the Sweet Unicorns exist. Good grief. What is the meaning of this Great Pumpkin issue?

 

[Silverplum]

Oh puppy presents on the rug. Silver, love you dearly but leave my Sweet Unicorn horns out of this. They aren't in Ireland but in my garage and I really really don't appreciate you revealing that the Sweet Unicorns exist. Good grief. What is the meaning of this Great Pumpkin issue?

Whoops!

The Great Pumpkin is my friend, and perhaps we were more than friends, but it was a long time ago. That's all you need to know.

 

[FlyingRon]

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Even the military recognizes him now. I've been touched by his noodlly appendage.

 

[ecmst12]

They can punish him for being disrespectful to the beliefs of others....but they'd probably have to also punish the child who was making fun of him for being an atheist.