Secret security clearance

[Rjordan74]

I live in indiana. Was recently suspended by my government employer because my secret security clearance was revoked. I was never given a clear reason or even an official reason as to why my clearance was revoked, In writing or in person. I was told to wait for an investigator to contact me, so that I may start the investigation process over again for a new clearance. It has been 3 months now and this has yet to happen. My employer says that i have not been terminated, but i am unable to return to work. I filed for unemployment but was denied because my employer is fighting it. (I am also a disabled vet if that helps any) What should my next step be?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Find anther source of income.

 

[swalsh411]

What is the status of your unemployment claim? Did you appeal? I know of many reasons why a clearance could be revoked and the vast majority of them are not misconduct and so should not disqualify you for benefits if you are financially eligible. I hope you didn't just give up on your unemployment benefits because you hit a bump in the road.

P.S. If you are told not to come back to work and are not getting a pay check, you are terminated in the eyes of the unemployment system.

 

[Rjordan74]

Find anther source of income.

I have another source of income. I just want back the three months of income that I missed while suspended.

 

[Rjordan74]

What is the status of your unemployment claim? Did you appeal? I know of many reasons why a clearance could be revoked and the vast majority of them are not misconduct and so should not disqualify you for benefits if you are financially eligible. I hope you didn't just give up on your unemployment benefits because you hit a bump in the road.

P.S. If you are told not to come back to work and are not getting a pay check, you are terminated in the eyes of the unemployment system.

I appealed but now I sit waiting. I have since then found another job but the 3 months I was without work took a toll on my family financially. The term my employer (or former employer) is still using is "suspended" according to what the unemployment office has told me. When I first filedf or unemployement, my employer told me to treat it as a lay off.

 

[commentator]

Well, if you didn't certify for unemployment for each and every one of the weeks in those 3 months after you were not working and after you filed the claim, and if you didn't appeal the initial denial within 15 days of being notified you were denied, you'll not be able in any way to recoup the unemployment benefits. Unemployment benefits, even when the claim is approved, must be initially filed for, and then each week certified for. They do not retro it back to the original date you lost the job, even if they do approve it. And of course, you'd stop certifying for weeks as soon as you returned to work. Approval for benefits has little to do with whether or not your employer fights it, and they have nothing to do with your being a disabled vet or whether or not you had additional income to live on or anything related to that.

They are based solely on whether or not you lost your job through any fault of your own. If you had, say for example, sent a threatening letter to a federal official, or had been recently arrested for some offence such as a DUI, that might be considered losing your security clearance through your own fault. If you had to jump through certain hoops to insure your on going clearance, get something done, and you didn't do it, that also might have been considered your own fault. If they just arbitrarily cancelled your security clearance, and there was no action on your part that caused it, nothing you could have done to stop it, and your employers laid you off or suspended you because you didn't have it, that sounds like something for which unemployment might very well be approved, even if you had to do it on the appeal after an initial denial.

That your employer was "fighting it" had nothing to do with whether or not you were denied on the initial decision. What did your letter telling you it was denied say, and how long ago did you receive it, and did you, within 15 days, file an appeal against this denial? If you are still within the 15 days, immediately file the appeal and ask for a hearing, even though you have returned to work.

 

[Rjordan74]

Well, if you didn't certify for unemployment for each and every one of the weeks in those 3 months after you were not working and after you filed the claim, and if you didn't appeal the initial denial within 15 days of being notified you were denied, you'll not be able in any way to recoup the unemployment benefits. Unemployment benefits, even when the claim is approved, must be initially filed for, and then each week certified for. They do not retro it back to the original date you lost the job, even if they do approve it. And of course, you'd stop certifying for weeks as soon as you returned to work. Approval for benefits has little to do with whether or not your employer fights it, and they have nothing to do with your being a disabled vet or whether or not you had additional income to live on or anything related to that.

They are based solely on whether or not you lost your job through any fault of your own. If you had, say for example, sent a threatening letter to a federal official, or had been recently arrested for some offence such as a DUI, that might be considered losing your security clearance through your own fault. If you had to jump through certain hoops to insure your on going clearance, get something done, and you didn't do it, that also might have been considered your own fault. If they just arbitrarily cancelled your security clearance, and there was no action on your part that caused it, nothing you could have done to stop it, and your employers laid you off or suspended you because you didn't have it, that sounds like something for which unemployment might very well be approved, even if you had to do it on the appeal after an initial denial.

That your employer was "fighting it" had nothing to do with whether or not you were denied on the initial decision. What did your letter telling you it was denied say, and how long ago did you receive it, and did you, within 15 days, file an appeal against this denial? If you are still within the 15 days, immediately file the appeal and ask for a hearing, even though you have returned to work.

I see your point. However, I was not given a reason as to why my clearance was revoked. There was no wrong doing on my part, in fact I was due to be promoted and moved to a new position the very next day. But instead of managment coming to tell me about my new position, they came to tell me about my suspension. I filed the appeal the same day I received the letter of denial. I certified every week after my last day and I even verified my job search every week with the unemployment office (which is what they require). However, the denial letter states that I was not readily availabe to look for work, and that I gave my employer permission to put me on an admistrative leave. Makes no sense if I was being promoted the next day to ask my employer to be put on leave.

 

[swalsh411]

Two seperate issues here and it's best not to muddle them.

First, your termination was not unlawful as far as I can see. It is not illegal to termiante somebody because their clearance was revoked and not provide them a reason. And even if your termination was unlawful that has no real bearing on your eligibility for unemployment.

As far as your unemployment goes, at the appeal you should plainly state that you were seperated from employment against your wishes. If your former employer claims you agreed to be "suspended", ask them to show evidence of that. Even if they can somehow show you agreed to a suspension, a threat to an employee to "quit or be fired" is seen as an involuntary termination in the eyes of unemployment.

 

[Rjordan74]

Two seperate issues here and it's best not to muddle them.

First, your termination was not unlawful as far as I can see. It is not illegal to termiante somebody because their clearance was revoked and not provide them a reason. And even if your termination was unlawful that has no real bearing on your eligibility for unemployment.

As far as your unemployment goes, at the appeal you should plainly state that you were seperated from employment against your wishes. If your former employer claims you agreed to be "suspended", ask them to show evidence of that. Even if they can somehow show you agreed to a suspension, a threat to an employee to "quit or be fired" is seen as an involuntary termination in the eyes of unemployment.

So why do they insist that I am still an employee and not terminated? I would rather them just tell me that I'm teminated or fired or laid off. I will take your advice to the appeal. Someone needs to at the very least give me an explanation as to why I was suspended. I worked a lot of years for this company and I feel screwed.

 

[Zigner]

So why do they insist that I am still an employee and not terminated?

It really doesn't matter except that they seem to be saying that, once your problems are cleared up you will be able to return to work.

I would rather them just tell me that I'm teminated or fired or laid off.

They really don't have to.

I will take your advice to the appeal.

Good

Someone needs to at the very least give me an explanation as to why I was suspended.

You were suspended because your clearance was revoked.

I worked a lot of years for this company and I feel screwed.

 

[cbg]

Perhaps because you are. That's the employer's determination.

That has nothing to do with your eligiblity for unemployment benefits. All that matters is that you are not being paid. Contrary to belief, you do not have to be fired, laid off, or otherwise separated from your employer before you qualify. As long as your suspension was not for misconduct, and there is no reason to believe it is and your employer does not appear to be saying so, you should qualify for unemployment even if you have not been fired, termed etc.

 

[swalsh411]

So why do they insist that I am still an employee and not terminated?

It doesn't matter. They could put you in "lollipop gumdrop happy land" status. What they label it has no bearing on your unemployment claim.

I would rather them just tell me that I'm teminated or fired or laid off.

I'm sure you would, but you can't force them to.

Someone needs to at the very least give me an explanation as to why I was suspended.

They are not legally required to provide you that information. However, if they expect to fight your unemployment, they will need to show evidence of either a voluntary quit or misconduct and from what you have posted it doesn't sound like they can do either.

I worked a lot of years for this company and I feel screwed.

You may very well have been screwed but that's life and it doesn't mean any laws have been broken.

 

[Rjordan74]

It doesn't matter. They could put you in "lollipop gumdrop happy land" status. What they label it has no bearing on your unemployment claim.



It does have bearing if my employer told me to treat it as a layoff. That's excatly what I did when I filed for unemployment. I filed as laid off because my employer told me to. But now they tell Unemployment something totally different. I know getting screwed is a part of life but that doesn't I dont have the right to be upset about it. I'm sure you or anyone else would be just as upset and would want their questions answered.

 

[commentator]

It sounds as though you have some dual issues going on here. Did you by any chance tell anyone at the unemployment office that you couldn't accept another job since you were still working or suspended or whatever from your federal job? That would be a totally separate work availability issue, which might affect your unemployment, but would have nothing to do with your approval for benefits based on your separation/suspension from your federal employer. You'll need to talk with someone at the unemployment system, see what it will take to resolve this particular issue of availability. It more than likely will require a separate appeal or decision.

Since you've filed your appeal of the denial, and you are now waiting, there is soon to be an appeals hearing, right? Have you been notified when this will be? Did you file certifications for each week while you were not back to work doing something?

If you are not being paid by your employer, regardless of your status, then you are eligible for unemployment benefits, you do not have to be officially laid off or terminated or fired or whatever. If they could do this, they'd put every employee on permanent suspension and never have unemployment benefits for anyone charged to their account.

It is totally common for employers to tell you one thing and tell the unemployment office something else. Incidentally, before you ask, you can't sue them for lying to the unemployment office, either. Since nothing illegal has been done to you, you cannot sue your employer, and you cannot FORCE them to tell you why you were suspended. They decided they wanted you gone. If they don't have a valid job related misconduct reason that they can present to the unemployment system, (or if they are not willing to produce this reason)then you may be approved for unemployment insurance but that's the only recourse you have here.

 

[Rjordan74]

It sounds as though you have some dual issues going on here. Did you by any chance tell anyone at the unemployment office that you couldn't accept another job since you were still working or suspended or whatever from your federal job? That would be a totally separate work availability issue, which might affect your unemployment, but would have nothing to do with your approval for benefits based on your separation/suspension from your federal employer. You'll need to talk with someone at the unemployment system, see what it will take to resolve this particular issue of availability. It more than likely will require a separate appeal or decision.

Since you've filed your appeal of the denial, and you are now waiting, there is soon to be an appeals hearing, right? Have you been notified when this will be? Did you file certifications for each week while you were not back to work doing something?

If you are not being paid by your employer, regardless of your status, then you are eligible for unemployment benefits, you do not have to be officially laid off or terminated or fired or whatever. If they could do this, they'd put every employee on permanent suspension and never have unemployment benefits for anyone charged to their account.

No. I told the unemployment office that I was looking for other work while I was not at the federal employer. I went on an aggressive job search and actually found another job while I was not working with them. Indiana Unemployment office requires documentation of the job searches by time, date and location and the status of those job seaches, which I provided. The system won't even allow you to file a claim without showing proof of a job search within thier system. In other words, when you log in, you cannot file a claim until you comeplete a job seach which includes a submission of an application and resume to a potential employer. Once you submit the application and resume, you are then redirected to the claim link and allowed to file you claim. I have not been notified of an appeal hearing yet.