Threatened to be fired today... verbally, no HR present

[mmcnatt]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? FL

Hello,

I have been with the same company for 3 1/2 years. I am a dependable worker, never been late even one time, always do a good job no matter the position I am in and have never ever been written up at this job or any other job in my life. Basically I come in, do my job, do it well and then go home. Easy peasy...

Here is what happened from the beginning a few weeks ago.

The company I am with merged with my old company where I kept my tenure, and only a few people from my old company came over with the merger (rest were let go with bonuses). Two of the people were a Supervisor and my Manager. I have always liked and respected both of them, and they have treated me fairly in the past. A few weeks ago, I was on a break and someone from our old work who also transferred with us (she works on a different floor) came up to me and she said hello to me and within seconds was asking me how I liked working with My Boss and the Supervisor and did I know they were having an affair? This was a rumor that has now traveled from my old workplace into the new one I transferred to, so I stopped her mid sentence and advised her that her information was incorrect and that she needed to go back to the person who told her that rumor and advise him/her that it is not true (it is NOT).

I then went back up to my floor and it was bugging me that this rumor had moved with us... I had respected both of the people the rumor was about), and was debating if I should say anything to them or not...this was when a co-worker (who also had transferred with me and was in same department and under the same 2 people the rumor was about) asked me if I was ok? I explained I ran into "so & so" from the old place and she approached me with gossip about my boss and the supervisor and I was debating if I should let them know it was going on again. I did not have to tell her what the gossip was as she had heard it before as well. I discussed with her the " should I" or "shouldn't I" dilemma I was having in telling the supervisor since my boss seemed to be in back to back meetings this day. ... We even discussed perhaps my co-worker should take the supervisor aside and tell her what happened since they talked more and she had a decent rapport with her. I was not trying to keep my name out of it at all, and had no issues with anyone letting the supervisor know it was me that heard the rumor.

The supervisor was in a meeting (as was my boss) so I was not able to address it with them right away, so I went to lunch and when I came back, my co-worker advised me that she approached the Supervisor after her meeting with the information. I asked her what happened and did I need to go to her, and my co-worker said "she's pretty pissed"... I told her I would go speak with her again, and my co-worker said "I wouldn't, she is pretty mad right now"... I took it to mean that she was upset about the situation with the rumor and waited for the Supervisor to come to me with it.. when she didn't after a week, I did not even think about it anymore as I assumed it was handled.

This was over 2 weeks ago and like I said...nothing...I mean nothing was ever said to me by the Supervisor or my Boss to indicate there were any issues. I figured it got handled and I was trying to keep it as none of my business as much as possible after I heard the supervisor was aware of the situation.. I "let it go" so to speak.

Today...I was pulled into a private room with the supervisor and my Bosses WIFE (whom I have only met once or twice briefly in the past and she just started working with us a few weeks ago on a different floor). That was it, the 3 of us... there was NO Human Resources represented there..

The supervisor then proceeded to tell me she was pissed at me for the above situation. She told me if I ever brought that up to my floor again she will personally see that I am fired. I tried to explain that it wasn't that I was not going to tell her, it was that my co-worker came to her first and once she already knew, I did not see the point in adding anymore to it and making a situation of it and had waited for her to come to me.. She knew where I sat and could have come to me at any time. The Supervisor NEVER once approached me on it since my co-worker came to her. My boss never did either. Today was the first time. I told the supervisor I had nothing but respect for her and my Boss and knew the rumors were not true and she threatened to fire me... several times during this conversation. She had me bursting in tears afraid I was going to lose my job, I ended up leaving early (with approved leave time) because I was too upset to do my job today.

One other thing happened in the meeting as well....the Supervisor accused me of having an issue with one of her Team Leads. I told her I did not have an issue, and that whomever she heard that from was incorrect. She threatened to Fire me again if she "ever heard I had an issue with any of her team leads".. she did this in front of the Bosses wife... who has nothing to do with the team leads whatsoever or that department and I was sitting there defending myself for something I did not do in front of my bosses wife. I have my thoughts on who the source of this information came from, but chose to keep it to myself because the Supervisor was not listening to anything I said, so I stopped talking.. (besides I was still crying and upset from the previous conversation)

I am just trying to find out right now a few answers to my questions below.

1. Could I be fired for the above situation? This was all done verbally and no paperwork involved and I have never ever been written up before to show any precedent of any type of misbehavior of any kind.... I never ever had to deal with something like this before and yes, I know that maybe it was not handled correctly by me, but fire me? I did not spread the rumor, I wanted to stop it, and I did not tell my co-worker the rumor, it was already known what it was from our old work environment.
2. Should this conversation or any part thereof occurred without an HR person in the room?
3. Should the last part of the conversation regarding the team leads (untrue) been handled with the bosses wife in the room?
4. Should I go to HR and let them know what happened today? My boss is on vacation until next week but I don't have enough personal time to take until he comes back. I did call my Team lead (who telecommutes) and advised her what happened, because I was so upset and needed to leave and she was unaware of any issues prior to today. She is my immediate chain of command and I feel she should have been at least present as a "witness" for the company or at least aware of the situation.

By the way.. if I leave my job before my year is up at the new location, I have to pay back my moving bonus to the company so I have to suck it up until next year... sadly.. I loved my job until today.

Any and all advice is welcome.

 

[tranquility]

1. Could I be fired for the above situation? This was all done verbally and no paperwork involved and I have never ever been written up before to show any precedent of any type of misbehavior of any kind.... I never ever had to deal with something like this before and yes, I know that maybe it was not handled correctly by me, but fire me? I did not spread the rumor, I wanted to stop it, and I did not tell my co-worker the rumor, it was already known what it was from our old work environment.

I'd say you can be fired for any, or no, reason as long as it is not a prohibited one. But, I noticed you wrote you "kept your tenure" in the merger. Are you in a union? Are you covered by a bargaining agreement?

2. Should this conversation or any part thereof occurred without an HR person in the room?

Many companies don't have HR persons. Unless such is a requirement under a CBA, there is no legal requirement for such.

3. Should the last part of the conversation regarding the team leads (untrue) been handled with the bosses wife in the room?

If such a thing is untrue and defamatory, it is probably defamation of some sort to have a non-employee in the room. If you have damages from the bosses wife, you may have a lawsuit. But, probably not.

4. Should I go to HR and let them know what happened today? My boss is on vacation until next week but I don't have enough personal time to take until he comes back. I did call my Team lead (who telecommutes) and advised her what happened, because I was so upset and needed to leave and she was unaware of any issues prior to today. She is my immediate chain of command and I feel she should have been at least present as a "witness" for the company or at least aware of the situation.

What would you like them to do?

 

[mmcnatt]

I'd say you can be fired for any, or no, reason as long as it is not a prohibited one. But, I noticed you wrote you "kept your tenure" in the merger. Are you in a union? Are you covered by a bargaining agreement?
Many companies don't have HR persons. Unless such is a requirement under a CBA, there is no legal requirement for such.
If such a thing is untrue and defamatory, it is probably defamation of some sort to have a non-employee in the room. If you have damages from the bosses wife, you may have a lawsuit. But, probably not.
What would you like them to do?

I am not in a union, it was part of my agreement with the company if I moved to the new city where the job was located.

We have a whole floor with HR persons but I am unfamiliar with them here, we are a large company and have only had to deal with them when I transferred in May to get set up in their system.

Was not looking for a lawsuit, unless I am actually fired over this, but feel an apology? (not holding breath) should be offered for having the Bosses wife in the room, tag teaming me with no direct supervisor (of mine) present, threatening to fire me with no previous indication there was an issue?

Same as above... have my Team Lead or HR....basically any outside party with authority within the company to look at how this was handled and a good employee was approached and threatened termination with no other representatives in the room or neutral parties at he very least and now I am worried I will be harassed moving forward and losing a very good job..

 

[tranquility]

I am not in a union, it was part of my agreement with the company if I moved to the new city where the job was located.

We have a whole floor with HR persons but I am unfamiliar with them here, we are a large company and have only had to deal with them when I transferred in May to get set up in their system.

Was not looking for a lawsuit, unless I am actually fired over this, but feel an apology? (not holding breath) should be offered for having the Bosses wife in the room, tag teaming me with no direct supervisor (of mine) present, threatening to fire me with no previous indication there was an issue?

Same as above... have my Team Lead or HR....basically any outside party with authority within the company to look at how this was handled and a good employee was approached and threatened termination with no other representatives in the room or neutral parties at he very least and now I am worried I will be harassed moving forward and losing a very good job..

You don't have a lawsuit even if you are fired. Nothing illegal is being done. While there may be some internal issues over the boss' wife being in the room, it is not, per se, illegal. The supervisor who said false things about you could have committed a tort of defamation with the publication to boss' wife. But, it is not going to be easy to prove it was not an opinion or even "false" if he was just reporting what another told him. (But, again, only maybe.) The real problem would be to prove damages. Just because something bad happened after something bad happened, does not legally link the two.

 

[Proserpina]

Without being part of a union or having a cba (collective bargaining agreement - which sounds highly unlikely in your case) your recourse is to find another job. They don't owe you an apology or anything else, legally.

 

[commentator]

What you need to do is discover which I hope you have here, after reading our replies, that you have absolutely no protections against unfair treatment in the workplace, unless it is based on your being a member of a proctected class regarding EEOC, no protections from unjust accusations or failure of the company to acknowledge your good past performance and good intentions. And in your very employer friendly "at will" state, you can be fired, at will, by the company even for wearing green socks today. You have nothing whatsoever to make a lawsuit of, even if they walk in and fire you tomorrow.

No one, but no one, including HR, or even your family will want to hear again the step by step he said/she said/then I said/they said...workplace drama you've detailed for us. In a word, it doesn't matter. Supervisors can and do threaten to fire people all the time, for dozens of reasons, real, unreal, fair, unfair, and you basically have very little protection under the labor laws.

If you are fired, the employer, in order to keep you from receiving unemployment benefits, which are your only recourse, would need to demonstrate that they had a valid MISCONDUCT reason to terminate you. Usually this would be progressive discipline for misconduct, which means that they would have needed to write you up or give you some sort of warning that what you did was not appreciated, and that if you do it again you could be fired, and then show that you did, knowing your job might be jeopardized, do it again.

I'd say that your supervisor, since she went entirely past the HR section, was just talking trash to you in a threatening way. (Which, incidentally, is perfectly legal.) She was accusing you of "starting rumors," and having a grand old time watching you flinch and cower and cry at the threat and the thought of being fired. It may be that she does not even actually have the power to fire you, especially without the support of other management and usually HR, because most real disciplinary issues are handled through HR and in a much more professional way than what you describe.

But what I suggest you do is GO BACK TO WORK, at once. Nothing has happened here that has made it impossible for you to go on working or to have to file a complaint. Keep your head down, do your job, don't discuss this situation ever again with co workers, don't threaten to sue the company (which would be an idle threat anyhow) Just go on, let it die. Above all, try to behave normally and do not act traumatized or intimidated. Do your work to the best of your abilities. Do not let this one person's actions make you so miserable you now hate a good job you were glad to have a day or two ago.

You made a mistake by bringing in all this rumor mill and "she needs to hear about this, she needs to be told" stuff. WHY would she need to hear about this? What good would be served? That's junior high school stuff, not a professional work place issue. I can see, to some extent, why this supervisor may have been irritated. How do you know what the other woman told her? For all you know, innocent and well intentioned as you want to portray it, it may have been a matter of her going to the supervisor and telling her you said all kinds of things about her. People do tell different stories, you know. Let this die.

If you really feel that you are in danger of being fired, you may want to quietly, on your own time, begin researching other jobs. At the end of the year, you may have something new and better to go to. But above all, do not tell them you need to find work other because you think you're being fired at this job, or go into details about your unfair supervisor or your horrible experience with her and the bosses' wife.

If they want to, this company can come in and fire you any time. You would not have any reason to file a complaint against them unless there was an EEOC related issue. There is no bureau of fairness, particularly not in the southeastern united states at this time. If this were to happen, you would file for unemployment insurance and move on to find another job.

 

[tranquility]

What you need to do is discover which I hope you have here, after reading our replies, that you have absolutely no protections against unfair treatment in the workplace, unless it is based on your being a member of a proctected class regarding EEOC, no protections from unjust accusations or failure of the company to acknowledge your good past performance and good intentions. And in your very employer friendly "at will" state, you can be fired, at will, by the company even for wearing green socks today. You have nothing whatsoever to make a lawsuit of, even if they walk in and fire you tomorrow.

No one, but no one, including HR, or even your family will want to hear again the step by step he said/she said/then I said/they said...workplace drama you've detailed for us. In a word, it doesn't matter. Supervisors can and do threaten to fire people all the time, for dozens of reasons, real, unreal, fair, unfair, and you basically have very little protection under the labor laws.

If you are fired, the employer, in order to keep you from receiving unemployment benefits, which are your only recourse, would need to demonstrate that they had a valid MISCONDUCT reason to terminate you. Usually this would be progressive discipline for misconduct, which means that they would have needed to write you up or give you some sort of warning that what you did was not appreciated, and that if you do it again you could be fired, and then show that you did, knowing your job might be jeopardized, do it again.

I'd say that your supervisor, since she went entirely past the HR section, was just talking trash to you in a threatening way. (Which, incidentally, is perfectly legal.) She was accusing you of "starting rumors," and having a grand old time watching you flinch and cower and cry at the threat and the thought of being fired. It may be that she does not even actually have the power to fire you, especially without the support of other management and usually HR, because most real disciplinary issues are handled through HR and in a much more professional way than what you describe.

But what I suggest you do is GO BACK TO WORK, at once. Nothing has happened here that has made it impossible for you to go on working or to have to file a complaint. Keep your head down, do your job, don't discuss this situation ever again with co workers, don't threaten to sue the company (which would be an idle threat anyhow) Just go on, let it die. Above all, try to behave normally and do not act traumatized or intimidated. Do your work to the best of your abilities. Do not let this one person's actions make you so miserable you now hate a good job you were glad to have a day or two ago.

You made a mistake by bringing in all this rumor mill and "she needs to hear about this, she needs to be told" stuff. WHY would she need to hear about this? What good would be served? That's junior high school stuff, not a professional work place issue. I can see, to some extent, why this supervisor may have been irritated. How do you know what the other woman told her? For all you know, innocent and well intentioned as you want to portray it, it may have been a matter of her going to the supervisor and telling her you said all kinds of things about her. People do tell different stories, you know. Let this die.

If you really feel that you are in danger of being fired, you may want to quietly, on your own time, begin researching other jobs. At the end of the year, you may have something new and better to go to. But above all, do not tell them you need to find work other because you think you're being fired at this job, or go into details about your unfair supervisor or your horrible experience with her and the bosses' wife.

If they want to, this company can come in and fire you any time. You would not have any reason to file a complaint against them unless there was an EEOC related issue. There is no bureau of fairness, particularly not in the southeastern united states at this time. If this were to happen, you would file for unemployment insurance and move on to find another job.

I have much respect for this answer. I don't "like" as a rule, but like this as much as any answer in all the years I've been here.

Well done commentator.