IS this legal? Online spirit purchase

[quincy]

I have posed the questions to the NSY LA. As soon as they have an answer they will reach out to me.

Good. Anxiously awaiting an answer.

 

[votking]

Good. Anxiously awaiting an answer.

I finally got an answer by e-mailing the Freedom of Information department at the NYSLA.

I sent the following question:



From: *********************
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 8:09 PM
To: abc.sm.foil
Subject: Question regarding legality of return



Hello, I have a question regarding the legality of a return of an online spirits order. I ordered a bottle via a licensed retailer in California. The wrong bottle was shipped and then the company then shipped the correct bottle to me right away. The company is now asking me to ship back the incorrect bottle. Is it legal for me as an individual in NYS to ship spirits to California on a return of an incorrect bottle?

Thanks,
*****


The answer from NYSLA


"The spirits retailer in California is guilty of trafficking alcoholic beverages in New York without a license. Only out-of-state wineries may direct ship to New York consumers."

 

[quincy]

I finally got an answer by e-mailing the Freedom of Information department at the NYSLA.

I sent the following question:



From: *********************
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 8:09 PM
To: abc.sm.foil
Subject: Question regarding legality of return



Hello, I have a question regarding the legality of a return of an online spirits order. I ordered a bottle via a licensed retailer in California. The wrong bottle was shipped and then the company then shipped the correct bottle to me right away. The company is now asking me to ship back the incorrect bottle. Is it legal for me as an individual in NYS to ship spirits to California on a return of an incorrect bottle?

Thanks,
*****


The answer from NYSLA


"The spirits retailer in California is guilty of trafficking alcoholic beverages in New York without a license. Only out-of-state wineries may direct ship to New York consumers."

Well, NYSLA did not really provide an answer to the question of what to do as a consumer if you are sent the wrong bottle and want to return-ship it, but it is an interesting answer.

Thank you for getting back to us.

 

[votking]

Well, NYSLA did not really provide an answer to the question of what to do as a consumer if you are sent the wrong bottle and want to return-ship it, but it is an interesting answer.

Thank you for getting back to us.

what does it mean??

 

[quincy]

what does it mean??

I don't know.

I guess it means that we need to keep looking for an answer to your original question.

And I guess it could also mean you get to keep the bottle that was sent to you in error instead of worrying about sending it back. If the California retailer puts up a fuss, you can send them a copy of the NYSLA response.

 

[votking]

I don't know.

I guess it means that we need to keep looking for an answer to your original question.

And I guess it could also mean you get to keep the bottle that was sent to you in error instead of worrying about sending it back. If the California retailer puts up a fuss, you can send them a copy of the NYSLA response.

Does this mean its illegal for them to ship distilled spirits to nys in the first place?

 

[quincy]

Does this mean its illegal for them to ship distilled spirits to nys in the first place?

That is what the email you received says - not that it is illegal to ship distilled spirits to NYS, but that it is illegal to ship distilled spirits directly to a NYS consumer.

 

[votking]

That is what the email you received says - not that it is illegal to ship distilled spirits to NYS, but that it is illegal to ship distilled spirits directly to a NYS consumer.

I am searching hardcore for where this is prohibited by law. I can't seem to locate anything.

 

[quincy]

I am searching hardcore for where this is prohibited by law. I can't seem to locate anything.

You can read the following sections of the ABC law, to see if these help at all:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ABC/8/102 and http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ABC/7/99-g

 

[votking]

You can read the following sections of the ABC law, to see if these help at all:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ABC/8/102 and http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ABC/7/99-g

I found no laws specifically allowing it or making it illegal.

 

[quincy]

I found no laws specifically allowing it or making it illegal.

Allowing for the direct sale to consumers of distilled spirits? That is addressed in the links I provided (although, admittedly, there are several exceptions that can apply).

What is NOT found anyplace that I was able to locate is information on the return of alcohol by a consumer once it has been delivered to the consumer.

With all of this said, though, New York's ABC law is a bit of a mess and the ABC regulators seem to fly by the seat of their pants when sending out cease and desist letters claiming illegal sales. There does not appear to be any adherence to the laws as written.

We have a New York attorney who posts to this forum and I will message him to see if he can add some insight.

 

[single317dad]

In addition to the advice already given, here is some extraneous information regarding the NY state liquor tax system. This particular page seems to be a good starting point, but the web underneath truly runs deep.

http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/bev/abt.htm

The regulation and taxation of alcohol and tobacco (sin tax) is a significant source of revenue for most states, and bootlegging laws are in place to protect that revenue stream. This is why it's always wise to err on the side of caution, as possession of untaxed and/or imported liquor may have consequences, and certainly the act of shipping untaxed spirits interstate is frowned upon in most places.

 

[votking]

In addition to the advice already given, here is some extraneous information regarding the NY state liquor tax system. This particular page seems to be a good starting point, but the web underneath truly runs deep.

http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/bev/abt.htm

The regulation and taxation of alcohol and tobacco (sin tax) is a significant source of revenue for most states, and bootlegging laws are in place to protect that revenue stream. This is why it's always wise to err on the side of caution, as possession of untaxed and/or imported liquor may have consequences, and certainly the act of shipping untaxed spirits interstate is frowned upon in most places.

Thanks for this info. It has been the most useful to myself in the search. These pages seem to indicate it is legal to do so. "You may import less than 90 liters of liquor into New York during a one-year period for your personal use without being registered. "

Does anyone concur with this conclusion?

http://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/tg_bulletins/abt/filing_requirements_for_individuals.htm

 

[quincy]

Thanks for this info. It has been the most useful to myself in the search. These pages seem to indicate it is legal to do so. "You may import less than 90 liters of liquor into New York during a one-year period for your personal use without being registered. "

Does anyone concur with this conclusion?

http://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/tg_bulletins/abt/filing_requirements_for_individuals.htm

It's a 2012 publication, for one thing. I am not sure what sort of changes have been made in the New York alcohol laws since then (if any). That said, the tax information does seem clearer than the ABC law sections.

But what exactly is your question now, votking? Are you still wondering about shipping the bottle you received back, or do you have additional concerns? I have sent a private message to You Are Guilty, the forum's New York attorney, and it might be nice if he actually had an idea of what you want to know.

 

[single317dad]

It's a 2012 publication, for one thing. I am not sure what sort of changes have been made in the New York alcohol laws since then (if any). That said, the tax information does seem clearer than the ABC law sections.

But what exactly is your question now, votking? Are you still wondering about shipping the bottle you received back, or do you have additional concerns? I have sent a private message to You Are Guilty, the forum's New York attorney, and it might be nice if he actually had an idea of what you want to know.

That's why I labeled my link as "extraneous"; while it answered some questions nicely, it didn't appear to address OP's original question. Hopefully YAG can give a clear answer to the actual inquiry.