Fired for Credit Card "Abuse"

[Ed At-Will]

Fired for Credit Card "Abuse" - UPDATE

Texas

My old organization let me go 7 weeks ago. They brought me into the room with my supervisor and legal counsel. He brought out a bill asking, "What's this all about?" The bill was from a Ritz-Carlton that I was put up in by my company for a business trip. The secretary made the reservation. I had never stayed at a hotel of that caliber so soon came to realize that everything must be charged to the hotel room. Clearly the Ritz is extremely expensive so I began to feel on edge as to what I was spending and asked some colleagues what they had done in the past and they stated that there is no written policy on per diem but use your best judgement. I tried my best but dinners and lunches alone were $40 - $80. What I decided to do, was go directly to my supervisor when I returned from the trip and let him know that being that this was my first trip with the company that we should go over the bill when it arrived and anything that he thought I should pay for out of pocket would be fine with me. He agreed that this would be fine. A month later, I emailed him the bill and we agreed on some items that I would take care of (again, this was all charged to the room, not me swiping a credit card all over the place).

The next day, he took me into the room with legal counsel and presented me with an additional bill of $240. I stated that this bill was a mistake and that I had a receipt in my office from Ritz showing the $240 being discounted and a ZERO dollar balance. I said, "Let me go get it." Before I had a chance to stand up, he said, "Basically, this just isn't working out."

Performance was always praised, attendance was great, relationships were very positive...they also let another member of my already understaffed and overworked team go two weeks before.

What do you think is going on here and will I be approved for unemployment if the employer gave this as their reason for termination? I am currently waiting for an unemployment investigator to call me on the matter. Any advice as to what to say?

 

[Ed At-Will]

One additional item to mention, after I emailed upper-management in confusion and asking for reasons for termination, I was offered two weeks pay. But still no specifics.

 

[pattytx]

Look at your screen name and then google "at will employment".

Although my opinion and $1 won't get you a large coffee at 7-11, I think your chances for UI are better than 50/50. You tried to find out what you should do, you tried to show a bill that reflected a zero balance. I will say, though, that certainly there had to be somewhere else you could have eaten than at the hotel. I road-warriored for 5 years. I often ate at Mickey D's or Denny's.

 

[Ed At-Will]

Technically I was at the Ritz for a 3-day conference that was being held there so it was quite difficult to leave until 7pm. Either way, even though I had no orientation as to what I should be spending at an expensive conference such as this, I still offered to contribute. Also, I traveled quite a bit in the central TX area the whole time during employment, and yes, I was always frugal as to where I ate (Subway, etc). Also, I noticed that I stated I was termed 7 MONTHS ago when in fact, it was 7 WEEKS ago.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[commentator]

It sounds to me as though you were let go for performance issues. How long you had been at this company and whether you have had any prior warnings about job performance will be an issue. Be sure to mention these prior performance praises you've received. It sounds as though they may be getting rid of people for economic reasons anyhow, and may not even choose to fight the claim. Even so, you proceed the same way.

In this case, when filing for unemployment which you should do immediately, you call in (avoid the internet, as this is a complicated claim) and say that you were told you were terminated, that it was not working out, that you were offered a severance of two weeks and told to go. Your line is that you simply did the job to the best of your abilities. Perhaps that you feel you had not received quite as much training and assistance as you might have. That you showed up and did your very best, and that they told you the whole job relationship was not working out and let you go. You would have liked to continue to work there, but it was not your choice. You did everything you could to keep your job.

Don't spend a lot of time going on about how you weren't trained to make trips and expense for them, didn't know how much the company would reimburse you, paid the extra charges that you'd put on your hotel bill, etc. Because this goes into another area entirely, that you willfully and knowingly attempted to defraud the company by padding your hotel bill with extras. Which as you say, you didn't, you were a babe in the woods, and you went on and paid those extras when you and the supervisor went over them. So leave that episode out as much as possible.

Professional salespeople know a lot more about how to stay in hotels and expense the company than this, for the most part. It was awfully ingenuous of you to assume you'd charge everything to the room and pay the company back the difference. They may have decided at this point that they needed to get rid of you, or it was a good excuse. But as I said, stay away from this episode if you can. They will ask "What was the final episode that led to your termination?" and you will have to brush on this lightly. But stress that you paid the differences as soon as the expenses were received. Do not spend a lot of time explaining this one or going on about it.

But it was not misconduct, or a deliberate effort to overspend. If THEY bring it up, that's your story.

 

[Ed At-Will]

Thanks Commentator, good advice.

It definitely was not performance. I was one of the best producers on my team and was always given praise. My relationships at the company, as far as I could tell, were great. I never received any verbal or written warnings. The only thing that I can think of is that I rubbed someone higher up the wrong way. I am used to a large corporate company while this was a small group that had been working together for 20 years. I was the first new hire in 5 years. I was only there for 8 months and have never been fired before.

 

[Ed At-Will]

Commentator,

The way it that it occurred is this:

Upon my return from the trip, I went to my supervisor (VP Operations) and discussed the trip and my experiences at the conference. Before leaving his office, I mentioned, "John, being that this was my first big trip with the company, I'd like to go over the final bill when it arrives to make sure that everything that I spent was alright." He said, "Sure, lets take a look when it comes."

A month later it came. He asked me to email him the expenses and which things that I thought I should pay for. I was fair, and picked up any expensive lunches or dinners. He replied that he agreed and to submit an expense report to accounting.

The next morning is when he brought me in the office to term me along with another bill for $240 (which is the one that I had the receipt for stating that it was a mistake and a zero dollar balance). When I offered to go get the receipt, he said, "Basically, this is not working out."

I think they were looking for a good reason to let me go...how can I assure unemployment?! P.S. The total bill for the 4 day trip staying at Ritz, Rental Car, Parking, etc was $1400. Very small compared to what I have seen spent in the past.

 

[pattytx]

You can NEVER be 100% guaranteed that you will receive UI. By anybody. Even the state, if you called them first, would not give you one.

All you can do is file and find out what happens. My employer may not even protest.

 

[commentator]

If you want to greatly improve your chances for getting unemployment, do not try to maintain YOUR pride by saying it definitely wasn't a performance issue. If they terminated you and indicated "it just wasn't working out" then it stands to reason that somebody in the company did not like the way you were performing for them, doesn't it? They have the right to do so, and the fact that they had previously given you good reviews just makes it more likely that you will be approved for benefits.

If you try to make it what you originally said, fired for credit card abuse..the title of your original post, it's going to open a nasty can of worms and might even get you disqualified for unemployment benefits even if the company doesn't protest. They will go into all the issues surrounding the stay at the hotel, and what the company's rules were about these things. If you've ever seen a manual with these regs in it, or signed off on the travel forms...it could be seen that you did abuse the company expense account. They will ask, "Did you do this?" and whether you knew you shouldn't or didn't understand how the billing would be done, or paid the money back, or have charges them more in the past, you did it.

If you go telling the unemployment office that you were terminated for this credit card issue, you may just talk yourself out of unemployment, without the employer's help. It looks like they have given you sort of a free card to get unemployment, since performance issues are spectacularly difficult for employers to defend as long as you said you always did the job to the best of your ability, so don't blow it by trying to insist you couldn't have been fired for performance issues.

Future employers are NOT going to have the ability to see that you drew unemployment after being fired for performance issues. Your former employer has already given you reviews and awards based on your performance and will probably not give you a bad reference. They told you that the reason you were to be leaving was that things were just not working out. They have even offered you a two weeks severance, which you WOULD NOT do if you thought someone had tried to be dishonest or stolen from your company. So you were not actually fired for misuse of the company's credit card, were you? If you insist on using this as your reason for termination, though the company probably will not say this is the reason, your chances of being approved just went 'way down.

 

[phase08]

They have even offered you a two weeks severance, which you WOULD NOT do if you thought someone had tried to be dishonest or stolen from your company. So you were not actually fired for misuse of the company's credit card, were you? If you insist on using this as your reason for termination, though the company probably will not say this is the reason, your chances of being approved just went 'way down.

Excellent point, commentator. OP, hope you pay close attention.

 

[Ed At-Will]

Commentator - I really appreciate this advice. I was always planning to keep my mouth closed about the trip and credit card situation...UNLESS, they bring it up. Should I only mention it if they specifically ask about it? What do I say if they actually specifically ask about the credit card bill? The only question I was bringing up is how vague to be when they ask the final question that you mentioned, "What was the final episode that led to your termination?"

I suppose the real answer is "This is not an appropriate fit." As this is what they said even after the credit card situation and bill questions arose.

Thanks again

 

[>Charlotte<]

Should I only mention it if they specifically ask about it?

Don't get near the expense account issues if you don't have to. By making those extravagant charges you essentially issued yourself an unauthorized loan with your employer's money. That's not going to result in anything good for you.

 

[commentator]

When you file a claim, there is a standard series of questions that they pull up when you answer the question "Why did you leave or why are you no longer working at your last job?" Performance issues, not a good fit, this is not working out...will bring up a whole different set of questions than "fired for alleged credit card abuse."

Then the employer will be contacted to give their reason. If they were to respond with "employee misused the company credit card" then you'd have another talk with unemployment, and at that time, you'd have to go into the whole thing. But I don't think that's what they're going to say. They can't really deny that they termed you because things weren't working out. So you stay away from it, and I suspect they will too. As Charlotte says, staying as far from this as you can is a good way to go. Good luck!

 

[Ed At-Will]

Thanks All! I'll let you know how it goes but I think it looks pretty positive

 

[pattytx]

Let's see, dinner at the Ritz.

I'll take a Caesar salad, prime rib, creamed spinach, loaded baked potato, some decadent chocolate dessert and a good bottle of wine. $250-$300 please. At least.