unclear/ unfair expectations

[crch]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

So I started employment with a new company in March 13. At the time I was hired I had been out of my old position for 6 weeks on FML after having a baby My previous position was second shift, with a LOT of flex, and with our oldest starting kindergarden in the fall I was looking for something with more typical 9-5 hours. I work as a supervisor/case manager for individuals with MR/MH issues. At the interview I discussed the hours of the position and was told that it was 9-5 with a five week on call rotation on the weekend. During the week it would be 24/7 on call. I wasn't thrilled with the on call during the week, but the truth of the matter is that my former employees always called me first anyway and it honestly is easier for me to deal with the problem. The program had not opened yet so for the first few weeks I was working on hiring staff. The requirements for the position were high considering the pay rate, and it was difficult to find qualified applicants. I discussed this numerous times with my supervisor. I posted the ad on careerbuilder, craigslist and made flyers to post at local colleges and universities. The program opened on 5/15/13 at this time it was decided that I would not be on call every 5 weekends I would be on call 24/7. Again I was not pleased, but I figured being on call for one program all the time or 12 programs every five weeks most likely comes to the same end as far as time is concerned, so I let it go. When the program opened we still did not have a full staff. This presented a problem as the home MUST be staffed 24/7. So it became the responsibility of the managers to fill the shifts. This was a nightmare for me. I made child care arrangements for 9-5 and every five weeks on call. Not overnights, second shifts, weekends- whenever. Anyone who has ever had to find childcare understands it's not an easy task. And finding child care for shifts that change by the day in a rural area is next to imposible.

I am also breastfeeding the baby. Typically I would use my 30 min lunch break split into 2 15 min breaks to pump. The agency did not have a private location for me to pump (my supervisor suggested the bathroom- I squashed that idea real fast), so I would just find an empty parking lot and pump in my car. The real issue came when I had to start working all of these residential shifts. There is a staff office in the home with an outlet and a door that locks. It should have been no problem, except the individual who lives in the home (he has MR/MH issues) tried to break down the door when I was pumping because I wasn't playing Wii with him. I could not leave the home to pump because some one has to be there at all times. After this shift I informed my employer that it would be imposible for me to continue working in the home, with out some type of accommodation for the pumping. Additionally I explained that I was having an issue with the schedule, as I was told 9-5 with an occasional shift while on call every 5 weeks. Not filling shifts three days a week. We had a meeting where I was told that I would have to fill the shifts as part of my job. They suggested having my supervisor come to relive me while I pumped. She stated that she could only do that one time per shift. I require more than one break a shift to have enough to feed the baby (as do most women). I told them that I would discuss the out come of the meeting with my spouse and my childcare provider and let them know what I could do. At every step I expressed that in no way did I want to quit my job. After discussing with child care and my spouse and my lactation consultant- I came to the realisation that there would be no way for me to continue to be employed there if that was the only accommodation they would be able to make. I sent an email explaining that and gave my notice.

When I filed for benefits they said that I had not proven that I made an effort to explore other options. I have every intention of appealing it but I don't know what will come of it. The new health care laws say that they have to give me a place to pump and allow me to take breaks to do it. It seems to me they violated that law- I also will admit this happened quickly. I resigned the night after our meeting. A week after sending the initial email; however as anyone who as breastfed can tell you- you can't just put a pause button on nursing. It works on supply and demand. So when you skip a pump or a feeding your body starts making less and less milk. Also my son has food sensitivities- specifically to cows milk proteins (also not that uncommon). I cannot eat a lot of dairy products with out him having some symptoms. I CANNOT imagine what it would be like if we gave him formula- based in cows milk. Many people have the experience of having to try many formulas before they find one that works for their baby. We would have had no time to research and find an appropriate formula for him. Beyond that every medical organization in the world seems to recognize that breast milk is better for baby. I have no problem if someone choses to make the decision to give formula- if that works for you and your family go for it! But it seems grossly unfair that I was having my federally protected choice taken away from be because my employer could not accommodate it.

Any suggestions on what to say at appeal, if there is a chance of winning the appeal.... I almost think it comes under the category of discrimination based on sex and/ or marital status?

Seriously, any opinions at all would be helpful.

 

[ecmst12]

This has nothing to do with your gender or marital status and I don't think marital status is protected in PA anyway. You don't have to be married to have a baby and not all women breastfeed. You may win your unemployment appeal but this is not a case of illegal discrimination. They are required to provide you with a private location to pump, but I don't believe they are required to give you extra breaks each shift for it. But it sounds like finding another place to work is the best thing for you and your family.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

So I started employment with a new company in March 13. At the time I was hired I had been out of my old position for 6 weeks on FML after having a baby My previous position was second shift, with a LOT of flex, and with our oldest starting kindergarden in the fall I was looking for something with more typical 9-5 hours. I work as a supervisor/case manager for individuals with MR/MH issues. At the interview I discussed the hours of the position and was told that it was 9-5 with a five week on call rotation on the weekend. During the week it would be 24/7 on call. I wasn't thrilled with the on call during the week, but the truth of the matter is that my former employees always called me first anyway and it honestly is easier for me to deal with the problem. The program had not opened yet so for the first few weeks I was working on hiring staff. The requirements for the position were high considering the pay rate, and it was difficult to find qualified applicants. I discussed this numerous times with my supervisor. I posted the ad on careerbuilder, craigslist and made flyers to post at local colleges and universities. The program opened on 5/15/13 at this time it was decided that I would not be on call every 5 weekends I would be on call 24/7. Again I was not pleased, but I figured being on call for one program all the time or 12 programs every five weeks most likely comes to the same end as far as time is concerned, so I let it go. When the program opened we still did not have a full staff. This presented a problem as the home MUST be staffed 24/7. So it became the responsibility of the managers to fill the shifts. This was a nightmare for me. I made child care arrangements for 9-5 and every five weeks on call. Not overnights, second shifts, weekends- whenever. Anyone who has ever had to find childcare understands it's not an easy task. And finding child care for shifts that change by the day in a rural area is next to imposible.

I am also breastfeeding the baby. Typically I would use my 30 min lunch break split into 2 15 min breaks to pump. The agency did not have a private location for me to pump (my supervisor suggested the bathroom- I squashed that idea real fast), so I would just find an empty parking lot and pump in my car. The real issue came when I had to start working all of these residential shifts. There is a staff office in the home with an outlet and a door that locks. It should have been no problem, except the individual who lives in the home (he has MR/MH issues) tried to break down the door when I was pumping because I wasn't playing Wii with him. I could not leave the home to pump because some one has to be there at all times. After this shift I informed my employer that it would be imposible for me to continue working in the home, with out some type of accommodation for the pumping. Additionally I explained that I was having an issue with the schedule, as I was told 9-5 with an occasional shift while on call every 5 weeks. Not filling shifts three days a week. We had a meeting where I was told that I would have to fill the shifts as part of my job. They suggested having my supervisor come to relive me while I pumped. She stated that she could only do that one time per shift. I require more than one break a shift to have enough to feed the baby (as do most women). I told them that I would discuss the out come of the meeting with my spouse and my childcare provider and let them know what I could do. At every step I expressed that in no way did I want to quit my job. After discussing with child care and my spouse and my lactation consultant- I came to the realisation that there would be no way for me to continue to be employed there if that was the only accommodation they would be able to make. I sent an email explaining that and gave my notice.

When I filed for benefits they said that I had not proven that I made an effort to explore other options. I have every intention of appealing it but I don't know what will come of it. The new health care laws say that they have to give me a place to pump and allow me to take breaks to do it. It seems to me they violated that law- I also will admit this happened quickly. I resigned the night after our meeting. A week after sending the initial email; however as anyone who as breastfed can tell you- you can't just put a pause button on nursing. It works on supply and demand. So when you skip a pump or a feeding your body starts making less and less milk. Also my son has food sensitivities- specifically to cows milk proteins (also not that uncommon). I cannot eat a lot of dairy products with out him having some symptoms. I CANNOT imagine what it would be like if we gave him formula- based in cows milk. Many people have the experience of having to try many formulas before they find one that works for their baby. We would have had no time to research and find an appropriate formula for him. Beyond that every medical organization in the world seems to recognize that breast milk is better for baby. I have no problem if someone choses to make the decision to give formula- if that works for you and your family go for it! But it seems grossly unfair that I was having my federally protected choice taken away from be because my employer could not accommodate it.

Any suggestions on what to say at appeal, if there is a chance of winning the appeal.... I almost think it comes under the category of discrimination based on sex and/ or marital status?

Seriously, any opinions at all would be helpful.

You resigned. You were not fired. You VOLUNTARILY left the job.

 

[cbg]

There are NO circumstances whatsoever under which an employer is required to lower the work standard or expectations that all other employees are required to adhere to. Not for illness, not for pregnancy, not for disability, not for breastfeeding, not for anything. They may or may not have to accommodate the employee's circumstances depending on the situation and the applicable laws, but the law NEVER requires an employer to remove any essential function of the position or allow an employee to work to a lower standard than the other employees.

 

[Silverplum]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA
{snip EXTREMELY EXCESSIVE narrative}

.... I almost think it comes under the category of discrimination based on sex and/ or marital status?

Seriously, any opinions at all would be helpful.

Why would you "almost think" that??

 

[swalsh411]

It sounds to me like you didn't even try to make their accommodation work.

 

[commentator]

Your chances are not great. But you will do better n a hearing if you keep certain things in mind. Unemployment insurance is not at all concerned with your civil rights or discrimination. it relates only to unemployment law In this law, to get unemployment insurance,a person must be out of wrk through no fault of their own. To draw unemployment when you havequit a job, you must show that you had what the system considers a valid job related reason to quit the job. You must also show that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives with the employer before you quit.

Forget my rights were violated. Forget I couldn't get a baby sitter. For heavens sake, don't bring up how important it is that you breast feed your child. And I'd certainly not mention the meetingyou had with your spouse,your child care provider ad your lactation coach and how you told your employer you'd get bck to them after this meetingwith the verdict on whetheror not you quit your job. It is not up to you to dictate to the employer about what is appropriate for you and expect them to continue to employ you. You did voluntarily quit the job, but make sure all the reasons you bring up are job related and not personal, have to do with your desire to do a professional and excellent job, and how you attempted very hard to do this in this job situation before you madethe decision to quit.

Approach this from the angle that you accepted the job with these certain expectations about the hours you'd be asked to work and the amount of work you'd hve to do. Show that they changed these hours and work requirements by refusing to provide adequate staff for the facility, trying to do he work by expandingyour job hours and duties to make up for it. Tell how you attempted to resolve this situation by....how you discussed this issue with so and so on such andsuch occasions. You don't even have to bring up that it was child care issues that was causing you all this problem.

Keep making weekly certifications. Be sure you mention how hard you tried to do a goodjob and how hard you worked, how much you attempted to resolve the situation before quitting. Leave off any personal feelings and problems and be totally professional. Just the facts. This will work better for you in the hearing than any mention of your feelings about all this, your parenting issues and how unfairy you feel you have been treated.

 

[swalsh411]

. And I'd certainly not mention the meetingyou had with your spouse,your child care provider ad your lactation coach and how you told your employer you'd get bck to them after this meetingwith the verdict on whetheror not you quit your job.

Wouldn't that help to show the OP made at least some effort to resolve the issue? It's certain better than her just deciding out the blue one day it wasn't going to work and making zero effect to come to a solution.

 

[justalayman]

I CANNOT imagine what it would be like if we gave him formula- based in cows milk.

then don't give one based on bovine milk. There are formulas based on soy and you can always do what was done decades ago before all this formula stuff was available: goat's milk.

 

[TheGeekess]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

So I started employment with a new company in March 13. At the time I was hired I had been out of my old position for 6 weeks on FML after having a baby My previous position was second shift, with a LOT of flex, and with our oldest starting kindergarden in the fall I was looking for something with more typical 9-5 hours. I work as a supervisor/case manager for individuals with MR/MH issues. At the interview I discussed the hours of the position and was told that it was 9-5 with a five week on call rotation on the weekend. During the week it would be 24/7 on call. I wasn't thrilled with the on call during the week, but the truth of the matter is that my former employees always called me first anyway and it honestly is easier for me to deal with the problem. The program had not opened yet so for the first few weeks I was working on hiring staff. The requirements for the position were high considering the pay rate, and it was difficult to find qualified applicants. I discussed this numerous times with my supervisor. I posted the ad on careerbuilder, craigslist and made flyers to post at local colleges and universities. The program opened on 5/15/13 at this time it was decided that I would not be on call every 5 weekends I would be on call 24/7. Again I was not pleased, but I figured being on call for one program all the time or 12 programs every five weeks most likely comes to the same end as far as time is concerned, so I let it go. When the program opened we still did not have a full staff. This presented a problem as the home MUST be staffed 24/7. So it became the responsibility of the managers to fill the shifts. This was a nightmare for me. I made child care arrangements for 9-5 and every five weeks on call. Not overnights, second shifts, weekends- whenever. Anyone who has ever had to find childcare understands it's not an easy task. And finding child care for shifts that change by the day in a rural area is next to imposible.

I am also breastfeeding the baby. Typically I would use my 30 min lunch break split into 2 15 min breaks to pump. The agency did not have a private location for me to pump (my supervisor suggested the bathroom- I squashed that idea real fast), so I would just find an empty parking lot and pump in my car. The real issue came when I had to start working all of these residential shifts. There is a staff office in the home with an outlet and a door that locks. It should have been no problem, except the individual who lives in the home (he has MR/MH issues) tried to break down the door when I was pumping because I wasn't playing Wii with him. I could not leave the home to pump because some one has to be there at all times. After this shift I informed my employer that it would be imposible for me to continue working in the home, with out some type of accommodation for the pumping. Additionally I explained that I was having an issue with the schedule, as I was told 9-5 with an occasional shift while on call every 5 weeks. Not filling shifts three days a week. We had a meeting where I was told that I would have to fill the shifts as part of my job. They suggested having my supervisor come to relive me while I pumped. She stated that she could only do that one time per shift. I require more than one break a shift to have enough to feed the baby (as do most women). I told them that I would discuss the out come of the meeting with my spouse and my childcare provider and let them know what I could do. At every step I expressed that in no way did I want to quit my job. After discussing with child care and my spouse and my lactation consultant- I came to the realisation that there would be no way for me to continue to be employed there if that was the only accommodation they would be able to make. I sent an email explaining that and gave my notice.

When I filed for benefits they said that I had not proven that I made an effort to explore other options. I have every intention of appealing it but I don't know what will come of it. The new health care laws say that they have to give me a place to pump and allow me to take breaks to do it. It seems to me they violated that law- I also will admit this happened quickly. I resigned the night after our meeting. A week after sending the initial email; however as anyone who as breastfed can tell you- you can't just put a pause button on nursing. It works on supply and demand. So when you skip a pump or a feeding your body starts making less and less milk. Also my son has food sensitivities- specifically to cows milk proteins (also not that uncommon). I cannot eat a lot of dairy products with out him having some symptoms. I CANNOT imagine what it would be like if we gave him formula- based in cows milk. Many people have the experience of having to try many formulas before they find one that works for their baby. We would have had no time to research and find an appropriate formula for him. Beyond that every medical organization in the world seems to recognize that breast milk is better for baby. I have no problem if someone choses to make the decision to give formula- if that works for you and your family go for it! But it seems grossly unfair that I was having my federally protected choice taken away from be because my employer could not accommodate it.

Any suggestions on what to say at appeal, if there is a chance of winning the appeal.... I almost think it comes under the category of discrimination based on sex and/ or marital status?

Seriously, any opinions at all would be helpful.

Your chances are not great. But you will do better n a hearing if you keep certain things in mind. Unemployment insurance is not at all concerned with your civil rights or discrimination. it relates only to unemployment law In this law, to get unemployment insurance,a person must be out of wrk through no fault of their own. To draw unemployment when you havequit a job, you must show that you had what the system considers a valid job related reason to quit the job. You must also show that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives with the employer before you quit.

Forget my rights were violated. Forget I couldn't get a baby sitter. For heavens sake, don't bring up how important it is that you breast feed your child. And I'd certainly not mention the meetingyou had with your spouse,your child care provider ad your lactation coach and how you told your employer you'd get bck to them after this meetingwith the verdict on whetheror not you quit your job. It is not up to you to dictate to the employer about what is appropriate for you and expect them to continue to employ you. You did voluntarily quit the job, but make sure all the reasons you bring up are job related and not personal, have to do with your desire to do a professional and excellent job, and how you attempted very hard to do this in this job situation before you madethe decision to quit.

Approach this from the angle that you accepted the job with these certain expectations about the hours you'd be asked to work and the amount of work you'd hve to do. Show that they changed these hours and work requirements by refusing to provide adequate staff for the facility, trying to do he work by expandingyour job hours and duties to make up for it. Tell how you attempted to resolve this situation by....how you discussed this issue with so and so on such andsuch occasions. You don't even have to bring up that it was child care issues that was causing you all this problem.

Keep making weekly certifications. Be sure you mention how hard you tried to do a goodjob and how hard you worked, how much you attempted to resolve the situation before quitting. Leave off any personal feelings and problems and be totally professional. Just the facts. This will work better for you in the hearing than any mention of your feelings about all this, your parenting issues and how unfairy you feel you have been treated.

Looks like it was up to OP to arrange for staffing.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I am actually shocked the employer bent over backwards so far to be as accommodating as they were. They are not required to make the job fit you. They are not required to give you a different job. I think it will bode well for them, when they present their side about how you quit your job.

 

[crch]

There are NO circumstances whatsoever under which an employer is required to lower the work standard or expectations that all other employees are required to adhere to. Not for illness, not for pregnancy, not for disability, not for breastfeeding, not for anything. They may or may not have to accommodate the employee's circumstances depending on the situation and the applicable laws, but the law NEVER requires an employer to remove any essential function of the position or allow an employee to work to a lower standard than the other employees.

General Requirements
Employers are required to provide “reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for her nursing child for 1 year after the child’s birth each time such employee has need to express the milk.” Employers are also required to provide “a place, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public, which may be used by an employee to express breast milk.”
The FLSA requirement of break time for nursing mothers to express breast milk does not preempt State laws that provide greater protections to employees (for example, providing compensated break time, providing break time for exempt employees, or providing break time beyond 1 year after the child’s birth).
Time and Location of Breaks
Employers are required to provide a reasonable amount of break time to express milk as frequently as needed by the nursing mother. The frequency of breaks needed to express milk as well as the duration of each break will likely vary.
A bathroom, even if private, is not a permissible location under the Act. The location provided must be functional as a space for expressing breast milk. If the space is not dedicated to the nursing mother’s use, it must be available when needed in order to meet the statutory requirement. A space temporarily created or converted into a space for expressing milk or made available when needed by the nursing mother is sufficient provided that the space is shielded from view, and free from any intrusion from co-workers and the public.

How is that not a requirement to have different expectations?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Reasonable is the key word. You apparently expected the employer to pay another employee two hours labor a day, plus travel expenses, to accommodate you. They offered 1 hour and you were not happy about it. I suggest if you wanted to keep the job, you should have offered to pay the second hour and travel, yourself. Specifically the statute says break as in singular, you did not present a letter from a physiacian stating you had a medically valid requirement to receive more than one break.

Section 7 of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (29 U.S.C. 207) is amended by adding at the end the following:

(r)(1)
An employer shall provide—

a reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for her nursing child for 1 year after the child’s birth each time such employee has need to express the milk; and
a place, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public, which may be used by an employee to express breast milk.

 

[crch]

Why would you "almost think" that??

Because by creating a requirement to be on call 24/7 and providing no flexibility with out coming out and saying it it's discriminatory towards single parents. 24/7 on call means 24/7 babysitter on call. I doubt that it's enough to make a solid case- but it's situations like these that are the reason women earn so much less than men. "High power" jobs come with the idea that you will work around the clock. Historically (and still to this day) most caretaking be it an elderly parent, a small child or whatever are taken on by women. I realize that it's not something that I am going to be able to win over- I just think that it's true. I think that it's what creates the gender gap.

 

[crch]

General Requirements
Employers are required to provide “reasonable break time for an employee to express breast milk for her nursing child for 1 year after the child’s birth each time such employee has need to express the milk.” Employers are also required to provide “a place, other than a bathroom, that is shielded from view and free from intrusion from coworkers and the public, which may be used by an employee to express breast milk.”
The FLSA requirement of break time for nursing mothers to express breast milk does not preempt State laws that provide greater protections to employees (for example, providing compensated break time, providing break time for exempt employees, or providing break time beyond 1 year after the child’s birth).
Time and Location of Breaks
Employers are required to provide a reasonable amount of break time to express milk as frequently as needed by the nursing mother. The frequency of breaks needed to express milk as well as the duration of each break will likely vary.
A bathroom, even if private, is not a permissible location under the Act. The location provided must be functional as a space for expressing breast milk. If the space is not dedicated to the nursing mother’s use, it must be available when needed in order to meet the statutory requirement. A space temporarily created or converted into a space for expressing milk or made available when needed by the nursing mother is sufficient provided that the space is shielded from view, and free from any intrusion from co-workers and the public.

How is that not a requirement to have different expectations?

"each time such employee has need to express the milk" specifically gives the option for more than one break