How to help my dad in ICU?

[Justinc]

(FL)

My mom and I run an eldercare home with up to 6 residents, and we have often seen people coming out of hospitals and other nursing homes practically near death, then they move here and magically make a full rebound. I think the health care industry might be the problem, and now my dad is caught up in it. There was a problem with his heart, he has had a pacemaker for a year or two now and they recently had to operate again. Now he has ended up with congestive heart, fluid in the lungs, and is so doped up he can't get out a single word. His mind was functioning as good as ever a week ago, so I believe they are chemically restraining him, as well as physically. This isn't tearing me up inside like it might be for others in my family, but I worry they also might be idiots. An even bigger problem is I might suspect his wife to manipulate the situation, and I'm not sure how I can confront that. I just want to do the right thing. Any advice?

 

[justalayman]

You do realize they are in the hospital to be treated for some medical issue, right? It is expected they are not going to be 100% when discharged. They need to recuperate after whatever issue it was they went to the hospital for. If they are showing improvement once they come to your home, then the hospital did good.

 

[sandyclaus]

(FL)

My mom and I run an eldercare home with up to 6 residents, and we have often seen people coming out of hospitals and other nursing homes practically near death, then they move here and magically make a full rebound. I think the health care industry might be the problem, and now my dad is caught up in it. There was a problem with his heart, he has had a pacemaker for a year or two now and they recently had to operate again. Now he has ended up with congestive heart, fluid in the lungs, and is so doped up he can't get out a single word. His mind was functioning as good as ever a week ago, so I believe they are chemically restraining him, as well as physically. This isn't tearing me up inside like it might be for others in my family, but I worry they also might be idiots. An even bigger problem is I might suspect his wife to manipulate the situation, and I'm not sure how I can confront that. I just want to do the right thing. Any advice?

Your father's wife has the right to make medical decisions on his behalf. If you feel that she is not acting in his best interests, you can certainly file a petition and seek guardianship and a medical power of attorney in her place.

 

[ecmst12]

I don't know how old your dad is, but it sounds like his heart is shutting down. CHF can sometimes be treated to improve comfort and extend life somewhat, but eventually the pathology is going to win.

 

[Justinc]

I guess all I can do is try to communicate with him in whatever limited ways I can... I don't know if he can write, he didn't seem to be holding a thought too well. And my guess would be that that has nothing to do with the heart failure. I might have to play detective on this one.

 

[Proserpina]

I guess all I can do is try to communicate with him in whatever limited ways I can... I don't know if he can write, he didn't seem to be holding a thought too well. And my guess would be that that has nothing to do with the heart failure. I might have to play detective on this one.

I'm not trying to be facetious, but where did you obtain your medical license?

Do you believe every single cardiologist and doctor and nurse who has been treating your father are all in cahoots to silence him? For what purpose?

Do you understand what CHF actually is, and how it can affect other body parts? Including the brain?

 

[commentator]

It sounds as though you believe your father may be being given the wrong medicines or being given too much medicine to keep him docile. Over-medicalization is an issue in eldercare. But when someone is in ICU, they may be given quite a bit of medicine to keep them from fighting the treatments, pulling out their IV's and being too agitated to rest.

Some things for you to consider in this situation: Since you and your wife run a care facility,which was not the choice for his care at this time by his physicians and the person who has medical power, you might appear to have some sort of vested interest in what is going on, you might want to be careful about throwing around accusations, "doing some detective work," implying that other family members are just stupid when they are concerned. You can help the whole family deal with this situation, but maybe not by being accusative and demanding.

Since you are not the person providing most of his care, he may rally and make a big effort to appear better when you are around. I have seen this happen many times. The ill person really will be at his best when outsiders come in, will even sometimes campaign to convince them "there's nothing really wrong with me, I shouldn't even be here!" when actually they're very compromised.


You can get a very good idea of the level of his functioning and the type of care he is receiving if you are a very frequent visitor, and you visit at various times, unannounced and without an agenda. Short frequent visits will give you a very good idea about how sick he really is and what is going on. If you really believe that your father is being over medicalized or not cared for properly, it would be a very good idea to discuss it with his wife as a concerned son. Your father is sounding as though he needs complete care, and as if he may be fading quickly, and if you determine otherwise, more power to you. But really, at his age with his diagnosis, your belief that his doctors could heal him completely if he was just given the right treatment may be a little unrealistic.

 

[Justinc]

Thanks commentator, I shall heed your advice. And he is over 70, but he seemed completely independent before, maybe a little weak but driving himself to work etc, so I was hoping he would still make a recovery, but from ecmst12's suggestion maybe my expectations are wrong. And yeah I'm pretty cynical about health care, I don't trust the drug companies and am wary of hospitals. I actually think this entire society is a scam though, no regard for being a person, adults are expected to perform as automated money-making machines with no human judgement, it skews our entire existence. Call me paranoid.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks commentator, I shall heed your advice. And he is over 70, but he seemed completely independent before, maybe a little weak but driving himself to work etc, so I was hoping he would still make a recovery, but from ecmst12's suggestion maybe my expectations are wrong. And yeah I'm pretty cynical about health care, I don't trust the drug companies and am wary of hospitals. I actually think this entire society is a scam though, no regard for being a person, adults are expected to perform as automated money-making machines with no human judgement, it skews our entire existence. Call me paranoid.

Let me put this another way. If your father has CHF and it ISN'T being treated by specialists, he'd die a lot faster. I hate to be so blunt, but I lost my late DH from CHF. He was in his THIRTIES. I know of what I speak.

I'll also say though, that sometimes keeping a patient alive in the ICU is not always the best thing for the patient. There does come that painful point where the family - or the patient if they're still able - needs to consider palliative care (even at home), rather than being kept alive by machines. All too often the very sick patients aren't made aware of other alternatives.

I do wish you and your family luck.

 

[Farren]

I think you should try to provide best facilities and medication to your father, which you could afford and available to you. Then keep praying for him and hope for the best. Rather than consulting and seeking guidance from others. As sometime it could lead to more complications and irritation to understand a situation. As everyone has their own ideas and opinions.
I hope everything will be fine, wish you best of luck.

 

[Proserpina]

I think you should try to provide best facilities and medication to your father, which you could afford and available to you. Then keep praying for him and hope for the best. Rather than consulting and seeking guidance from others. As sometime it could lead to more complications and irritation to understand a situation. As everyone has their own ideas and opinions.
I hope everything will be fine, wish you best of luck.

Sigh. You're spamming, aren't you?

 

[Mass_Shyster]

Not yet, but I suspect the 'Farren' signature will change to a link in a few short moments.

 

[Proserpina]

Not yet, but I suspect the 'Farren' signature will change to a link in a few short moments.

I think you're right.

Le sigh :/

 

[ecmst12]

So you would prefer if he was given less medicine so he could live out his final days or hours gasping for breath, in a constant state of panic, just so you could talk to him? I don't think this is about your father's needs at all.

 

[Justinc]

I went today, and he's a vegetable. They're transferring him to hospice. They claim to have only used chemical restraints once... I didn't believe them but I don't know what to believe. Maybe brain damage from lack of oxygen? Whatever the case, his wife believes the doctors are doing the right thing. Even if I'm not sure and even if they can't answer my concerns, and even if it isn't what I think my father would want, I have to accept that he put his life in her hands of his own free will and that is his own responsibility. I am sad he can't express anymore and that I can't communicate with him and he is maye non-sapient or even non-sentient at this point, but maybe it's nobody's fault and I just need to reflect and come to terms with it. That would be the hard part.