Recieved A Ticket After An Accident!!

[micham42]

What is the name of your state?PENNSYLVANIA

I WAS DRIVING TO WORK ON RT 422 AT 7A THE ROADS WERE PLOWED, IT WAS NOT SNOWING BUT I SLIPPED ON BLACK ICE AND HIT A TREE AND TOTALED MY 04 SENTRA (PIECE OF TINFOIL)! THE TROOPER CAME 1 HOUR LATER, AND SAID JUDGING BY THE DAMAGE OF CAR-I WAS GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS..EVEN THOUGH I TOLD HIM I WAS GOING WAY BELOW SPEED LIMIT (35 IN A 55 ZONE) AND ISSUED A $155 TICKET! NO OTHER VEHICLES INVOLVED...ANY ADVICE ON FIGHTING THIS?

[justalayman]

As you stated, you recieved a ticket for driving too fast for conditions, not exceeding the posted speed limit.

The fact that you had the accident is itself proof that you were driving too fast for conditions.

There are others that frequent this site that might be able to help with some defense but I can tell you from my experience I have had no luck defending it.

Truthfully, if there were no incidental damages besides yours, I feel it is pretty cheesy for the police to issue these tickets. The injury you sustained (car and/or personal) seems like punishment enough.

[micham42]

I Have Already Entered A 'not Guilty' Plea....however, I Should Expect To Pay The Entire Fine And Accept Points? Is There Any Point In Offering My Explanation To The Judge? Your Reply Makes It Sound Hopeless!

[Law Gangster]

Originally Posted by micham42

Your Reply Makes It Sound Hopeless!

It is hopeless. There is no defense. Pay the fine, or take Community Service.

IAAL

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by micham42

I Have Already Entered A 'not Guilty' Plea....however, I Should Expect To Pay The Entire Fine And Accept Points? Is There Any Point In Offering My Explanation To The Judge? Your Reply Makes It Sound Hopeless!

Always try to give an explanation unless it is so ridiculous as to piss off the judge. Cruise the forum here. There is a poster, I believe was a judge in his past life, that posts a long list of things to do when you go to court. Follow them well. And like I stated before, keep checking, somebody may have some ideas to help .

And yes I find living my life as a pessimist is better than living as an optimist.
The optimist will never get more than they expected.
I, on the other hand, almost always will.

[micham42]

Thanks For Your Humbling Advice, Oh Wise Pessimist. Although Extremely Disgruntled, I Suppose I Will Have No Choice But To Take My Lumps And Hope For The Best, Uh, I Mean The Worst!

[poohmantbb]

Originally Posted by micham42

Thanks For Your Humbling Advice, Oh Wise Pessimist. Although Extremely Disgruntled, I Suppose I Will Have No Choice But To Take My Lumps And Hope For The Best, Uh, I Mean The Worst!

Will you quit capitalizing EvErY WoRd, As It GeTs VeRy DiStRaCtInG tO rEaD.

Anyhow, the judge that was referred to was SeniorJudge. Heed his advise and you may win a few points with the Judge.

[CarrieT]

Originally Posted by micham42

What is the name of your state?PENNSYLVANIA

I WAS DRIVING TO WORK ON RT 422 AT 7A THE ROADS WERE PLOWED, IT WAS NOT SNOWING BUT I SLIPPED ON BLACK ICE AND HIT A TREE AND TOTALED MY 04 SENTRA (PIECE OF TINFOIL)! THE TROOPER CAME 1 HOUR LATER, AND SAID JUDGING BY THE DAMAGE OF CAR-I WAS GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS..EVEN THOUGH I TOLD HIM I WAS GOING WAY BELOW SPEED LIMIT (35 IN A 55 ZONE) AND ISSUED A $155 TICKET! NO OTHER VEHICLES INVOLVED...ANY ADVICE ON FIGHTING THIS?

First of all... from what you are saying, the officer did not WITNESS you, ClOCK you nor find anyone else who said you were going 'too fast for the conditions' correct?
Secondly... Ive been a passenger in a car which slid on black ice going down a small incline, (an onramp onto the freeway) travelling at less than a mile per hour and we ended up slamming into the side wall and the car was totalled.
Since you plead not guilty, you will go to court.. DO heed the advice given by seniorjudge (its good advice) and explain to the judge what happened. Now, Im not sure about Pennsylvania law, however hopefully it is the same as Oregon, that if the officer doesnt show up then you can ask that the ticket be dismissed. If the officer DOES show up, Id be prepared to question him (as you are allowed to) on HIS expertise in determining speed of a vehicle that is crashed into a tree from slipping on black ice an hour after the fact. Question him on everything to do with road conditions, weather, etc etc (there are some good sites and books out there on how to fight a speeding ticket.. utilize them!). I agree that it was an unfair ticket in this case as you werent to know there was a patch of black ice there.. you WERE being cautious in travelling slower (much slower) than the speed limit.
Best of luck
Carrie

[loulblades]

Where along 422 did this happen? Actually what I am getting at, where is the magistrate you will see? Although you may not have received your court notice yet. One of the magistrates along 422 that I came in front of seemed like a reasonable guy and I believe he would listen to your story.

[bigpigtx]

BUT I SLIPPED ON BLACK ICE AND HIT A TREE AND TOTALED MY 04 SENTRA (PIECE OF TINFOIL)! THE TROOPER CAME 1 HOUR LATER, AND SAID JUDGING BY THE DAMAGE OF CAR-I WAS GOING TOO FAST FOR CONDITIONS.

As you stated, you recieved a ticket for driving too fast for conditions, not exceeding the posted speed limit.

Sometimes 10mph, or 5 or 2 is too fast for conditions. I'm not familiar with the statute in your state, but if you had a 1 car accident in lousy conditions, you were probably going to fast.

Truthfully, if there were no incidental damages besides yours, I feel it is pretty cheesy for the police to issue these tickets. The injury you sustained (car and/or personal) seems like punishment enough

BOLOGNA and that goes well with cheese. If you don't like the fact that you were issued a citation complain to you legislators, not the police. Unfortunatley there isn't a "cheesy" provision in the law**************I wish there was, I'd carry wheels of Gouda.

Always try to give an explanation unless it is so ridiculous as to piss off the judge

Only if you like to pay court costs with the explanation.

First of all... from what you are saying, the officer did not WITNESS you, ClOCK you nor find anyone else who said you were going 'too fast for the conditions' correct?

Carrie, for some reason I can't copy and past your whole post, but it is all rubbish b/c:

Typically we do show up. That's a lousy plan, based on a slim chance, that can cost a lot of money.

Police officers, particularly Troopers have lengthy training in accident investigations (which involve case studies along with physics) as well as years of experience. Can you testify that you've seen 10 other similar accidents which would indicate the defendant may have been traveling at a speed unsafe for the conditions at the time? I bet you the officer/trooper issuing the citation can.

Since you plead not guilty,

It's "pleaded"

[justalayman]

OK bigpigtx

Sometimes 10mph, or 5 or 2 is too fast for conditions. I'm not familiar with the statute in your state, but if you had a 1 car accident in lousy conditions, you were probably going to fast.

My daughter was ticketed after an accident. She was driving 25mph (30 in a 55 zone) BELOW the speed limit. A real nice citizen had plowed his drive across the road and left ridges that were not obvious until getting very close.

A work acquaintance was driving so slowly his speedo would not actually register a speed. A corner that I know is always ice covered was where his accident was. Before the officer left there were two more accidents in the exact same place. He was ticketed for driving too fast for conditions.

Like I said, if there are no incidental damages the ONLY reason for ticketing is for the revenue. These people are both very cautious drivers and drive very safely. Sometimes being on the road at all is too fast but life goes on and so does work.

Additionally. when I recieved a ticket there were no additional charges to an initial plea in court. You are charged for "court costs" if you go or not. The reciept I recieved even listed it as court fees.

And as far as the training you speak of**************..HA!!! not in my area, with the exception of SOME of the state troopers. And yes I know this to be true. I have a relative and and friend who are state troopers and have had friends on each of the 3 other departments that are in our area.

[CarrieT]

Originally Posted by bigpigtx

Sometimes 10mph, or 5 or 2 is too fast for conditions. I'm not familiar with the statute in your state, but if you had a 1 car accident in lousy conditions, you were probably going to fast.

'probably' ? thats a nice clear, concise, definitive determination ... meaning...'not 100% sure" lol

Originally Posted by bigpigtx

Carrie, for some reason I can't copy and past your whole post, but it is all rubbish b/c:

Typically we do show up. That's a lousy plan, based on a slim chance, that can cost a lot of money.

"typically" - another nice clear, concise, definitive word.. meaning yet again... 'not 100%'.
heres the thing bigpig - what I wrote is my opinion.. my thoughts. Same as the other poster who said they felt (they said that.. they felt) it was cheesy of the officer.. etc etc. Theres no reward in arguing someones opinion by calling it 'rubbish' or making (what you consider) witty digs at it
tell you what... maybe the OP will let us know if the officer shows up.. then we can make an educated determination as to how 'typically' officers show up

Originally Posted by bigpigtx

Police officers, particularly Troopers have lengthy training in accident investigations (which involve case studies along with physics) as well as years of experience. Can you testify that you've seen 10 other similar accidents which would indicate the defendant may have been traveling at a speed unsafe for the conditions at the time? I bet you the officer/trooper issuing the citation can.

I wouldnt bet eating your hat if I was you. As you dont know who the officer was or what his experience has been. What you can bet, however is what YOU have seen or experienced and that I would take as 'truth'.

Originally Posted by bigpigtx

It's "pleaded"

thank you for the sake of a dropped 'ed' when typing too fast..... my own person (al) spell checker

Carrie

[bigpigtx]

My daughter was ticketed after an accident. She was driving 25mph (30 in a 55 zone) BELOW the speed limit. A real nice citizen had plowed his drive across the road and left ridges that were not obvious until getting very close.

Well let me only say what I KNOW, then I'll say what I think. In my state we have a law called "failure to control speed". Basically if you fail to control your speed to where you collide with something else, then it's an offense. I doesn't matter if you're going above or below the posted limit.

If that isn't quirky enough for you the Texas Transportation Code Sec. 545.351 (a) "An operator may not drive at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances then existing." and (c) "an operator shall consistent with subsections (a) and (b), drive at an appropriate reduced speed : (5) when a special hazard exists with regard to traffic, including pedestrians, or WEATHER or highway conditions."

I don't make this crud up, duly elected legislators do. I THINK that you probably have a similar law in your state. Does the code define what "reasonable and prudent" are? Does it define what an "appropriate reduced speed" is? NO! It's left up to the officer to determine that. Is it a revenue generator? How much do you think it cost the governing body to send that officer/deputy/trooper out to your wreck? Yes it sucks but if you got a ticket there IS a law on the books somewhere (however ambiguous it may be) that some elected official is responsible for.

Carrie, you're right I wasn't there. I hope law school works out for you.

[CarrieT]

Originally Posted by bigpigtx

Carrie, you're right I wasn't there. I hope law school works out for you.

Why thank you bigpig And I hope the recycling business helps you become all that you can be xxxx

[justalayman]

bigpigtx:

Yes there is a similar statute here.

When you said how much does it cost to send somebody out to my wreck:

Well I figured it up. It takes exactly the same amount as if he stayed on his butt in the donut shop. He is an hourly paid person, the cars run 24 hrs/day. Equal cost. When you figure in the possibility he may get in an accident and cause damage to his or anybody elses car.. you tell me. As I said..revenue generator. BTW I have seen poice respond to situations similar to this and actually get in a wreck themselves. Do you think they ticketed themselves....I really doubt it.

as far as my wreck, when my daughter got in her wreck the car was drivable, there was $25 damage to the farmer's fence.

I'm not argueing the fact as to a law being on the books, it is the discretion of the responding officer to decide to ticket or not.

I repeat......cheesy ticket.

The thing is unless we park our cars in November and get them back out near the end of March, we are subjected to ice covered roads. We have no choice but to drive in them. When I was young the cops would generally not ticket for this type of situation calling it an "act of God". Now that the coffers in the statehouse are nearly drained it is an easy revenue generator. It has nothing to do with ensuring the safety of the public. These are safe drivers I am talking about that were hit with an unforseen and totally unavoidable circumstance. The ticket serves zero purpose except to raise revenue.