Speeding Ticket in FLORIDA

[JL514]

I received a traffic citation last night and I was hoping you could help me understand a few things. My ticket was for Unlawful Speed (65mph in a 40mph), Statute 316.189 subsection (1), and occurred just outside the University of Miami, in Coral Gables.



1) The officer noticed my radar detector and quickly mentioned that he had obtained my speed by pacing me with his car. How well does this stand?

2) The infraction occurred on Ponce de Leon Blvd. I turned into UM to turn around and go back home (I did not know I was being followed), and I was pulled over at the intersection of Stanford Drive and Levante Avenue, two streets within the University. On the citation, after my registration info, under "UPON A PUBLIC STREET OR HIGHWAY, OR OTHER LOCATION, NAMELY:" the officer wrote "Stanford Dr + Levante Ave." However, this is NOT where the violation occurred, simply where I pulled over. I was not speeding on Stanford nor Levante. Did he fill the ticket out wrong?

3) Do you know if NY and FL have a reciprocity agreement? Namely, do Florida "points" have any affect (do they even show up) in NY? I live in New York, my tags and license are from NY as well.

Thank you for your time,

Jordan

[The Occultist]

Originally Posted by JL514

1) The officer noticed my radar detector and quickly mentioned that he had obtained my speed by pacing me with his car. How well does this stand?

It will stand pretty well. However, Cepe will be along shortly I'm sure with directions on fighting the ticket based on the calibration of the officer's speedometer.

2) The infraction occurred on Ponce de Leon Blvd. I turned into UM to turn around and go back home (I did not know I was being followed), and I was pulled over at the intersection of Stanford Drive and Levante Avenue, two streets within the University. On the citation, after my registration info, under "UPON A PUBLIC STREET OR HIGHWAY, OR OTHER LOCATION, NAMELY:" the officer wrote "Stanford Dr + Levante Ave." However, this is NOT where the violation occurred, simply where I pulled over. I was not speeding on Stanford nor Levante. Did he fill the ticket out wrong?

Irrelevant.

3) Do you know if NY and FL have a reciprocity agreement? Namely, do Florida "points" have any affect (do they even show up) in NY? I live in New York, my tags and license are from NY as well.

Both NY and FL are part of the Non Resident Violators Compact, meaning that yes, FL will report the violation to NY. You should call your NY DMV and ask how they will assess points to your license.

Thank you for your time

No problem.

[Jim_bo]

1. I think that a challenged "pace" ticket could be difficult to prosecute. I do think there is an issue with the calibration of the speedometer (otherwise, why would they need to calibrate the radar guns?) But I think the easier arguments may be in how the pace was conducted, i.e. how far did he pace you? was he opening or closing during the pace? did he maintain speed consistent with yours for the entire pace? etc...

2. I think there may be a technicality issue with the street, but I also think the court will offer latitude for making a "clerical" error.

3. If you are a NY resident, are you going back to NY soon?? If so, you won't be available for traffic court and this is all moot.

[JL514]

Thank you for your response. I should have been a little more precise, as I certainly understand the idea of pacing a car. However, I had just returned to FL from NY after a month break. My car had been sitting in a garage for that time. I took the car out for a few minutes just to make sure everything was still working.

I quickly accelerated through the first three gears, coasted for a very short time, and made a left hand turn into the University. The stretch of road in question was no more than half a mile, and because of the quick acceleration, I would assume there would be time required for the officer to make the same reaction. Also, since I was turning, I had to slow down. I couldn't have been at my "top speed" for more than 5 seconds. I'm curious how the officer was able to reach and maintain a speed while maintaining a set distance behind me in this time frame. Also, I am pretty sure I wasn't going 65. It is the number that has me slightly aggravated. In FL the fine is the same for 20-29+, but I think in NY there is a point jump from 24mph+ to 25mph+. Could someone point me in the direction of FL point application guidelines?

Also, in NY, the best thing to do is always plead "Not Guilty," and go to court. The officer usually takes you outside before the court session starts, and talk with you and offer a reduced violation. Usually to a non-moving violation like "parking on pavement" or "faulty speedometer." The officer who issued my ticket informed me that that's not how things work in FL. He told me I will actually have to speak/present my case to the judge, something I've never had to do.

I'm not sure what to say. Do I ask for economical leniency because I am a college student with huge expenses? Do they do that? Can/should I ask for community service hours instead of a fine?

What can you recommend?

I will be in FL until May, when this semester ends.

[The Occultist]

You can ask for anything you want. Whether or not they will grant the leniencies you're asking for is NOT something anybody on this board can answer for you.

If you think you have a case, then by all means plead not guilty and challenge the officer. If you lose the case you will certainly not be granted any of the leniency you're trying for.

[sukharev]

Well - what do they teach you in school? Do your research, and find the answers you are looking for. Asking will only get you that far.

Just to point you in the right direction:

on this forum - search all posts by "You Are Guilty" (NY expert) using keyword "points". You'll find the answer to points transfer.

on NY DMV site - use same keyword, and find exact and current status of points transfer.

My advice - if court date is before you leave FL, go to court, plead guilty with explanation (that you are a student, unfamiliar with the area, and so on...) and hope for leniency. Save attitude for later. Pay whatever fine the judge gives you. Move on (see above for explanation on points).

[JL514]

Originally Posted by sukharev

Well - what do they teach you in school? Do your research, and find the answers you are looking for. Asking will only get you that far.

Just to point you in the right direction:

on this forum - search all posts by "You Are Guilty" (NY expert) using keyword "points". You'll find the answer to points transfer.

on NY DMV site - use same keyword, and find exact and current status of points transfer.

My advice - if court date is before you leave FL, go to court, plead guilty with explanation (that you are a student, unfamiliar with the area, and so on...) and hope for leniency. Save attitude for later. Pay whatever fine the judge gives you. Move on (see above for explanation on points).

Again, thank you for all your replies. I didn't mean to have an attitude, nor would I ever approach a bench with an attitude. I am unfamiliar with actually speaking/pleading my case to a judge, so I didn't know what I was in for. "Not guilty" is what you select on a NY ticket to go to court. I didn't mean I was going to go to court here and say I wasn't guilty, and fight with the officer.

I think I am going to go to court, and simply explain my situation, opt for community service and see what happens. I was just trying to get a feel of how well this would work and/or what the probable result would be.

As far as not doing my research, I came here with an initial set of questions because the regular posters have more knowledge than I do. I was not asking for information that is readily available. I was not asking because I was too lazy to search elsewhere. When I was replied to, I received answers to most of what I was asking, but when I had one more question I asked if someone could point me in the right direction. Not hand me an answer. If one person could say "just check NY DMV site" that would save me probably an hour. I would never think to start at the DMV website.

So, thank you again for all your replies, advice, and answers. Please do not talk down to me as if I am being lazy. This forum offers "free advice," I came to it for what it offers, and you tell me I should do my own research? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[You Are Guilty]

You do need to do the minimum amount of your own basic research. Things like "how many points does NY assess for out of state convictions" can be answered with Google in about 12 seconds. (I'll save you the trouble on this one, the answer is "0". NY DMV could not care less what you get convicted of out of state. Your insurance company, on the other hand...)

IMO, asking volunteers to take time of of their lives to help you when you are not willing to help yourself is a bit arrogant, and certainly doesn't provide any incentive for people to do so for you.

[JL514]

How exactly do you think I found this website? By searching. The truth is, searching for anything about "points" or "tickets" yeilds several hundred pages of attorneys and classes and e-books.

It also yields several forum questions that have been previously asked. My question was slightly different than those asked before me. I posted the same question on four different boards, and this is the only one where anyone has told me "you should do the research by yourself, we're here to help, but not really."

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by JL514

How exactly do you think I found this website? By searching. The truth is, searching for anything about "points" or "tickets" yeilds several hundred pages of attorneys and classes and e-books.

It also yields several forum questions that have been previously asked. My question was slightly different than those asked before me. I posted the same question on four different boards, and this is the only one where anyone has told me "you should do the research by yourself, we're here to help, but not really."

That's where you were wrong the "senior posters" such as the occultist are here to mock not to help - they think this is the free mocking board

You are Guilty is slightly different - he has to work in the corrupt systmen on a daily basis and is thus jaded. He has the information but will not give it out freely.

LWPAT or some of the other knowledgeable posters are here infrequently.

Chances of the points going between Florida and NY is a crap shoot at best.

On pacing in FL

from:
Dep't of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles v. Roberts

One of the issues in the suppression hearing was whether the initial stop for speeding was proper when the facts indicated that the speedometer was not certified to be properly calibrated to show the exact speed of the vehicle. The circuit court held that the officer's opinion as to the speed of the vehicle was inadmissible to show excessive speed


*fn1 When an officer "pace-clocks" a motorist, the officer follows the motorist for a sufficient distance at the same speed and, using the speedometer on the police vehicle, judges the speed of the motorist. Absent speculation, there is no indication here that this officer employed this methodology.


[74] *fn2 Perhaps the Respondent was traveling in the opposite direction in heavy traffic. If this was the vantage point from which the officer claimed to make a capable assessment of speed, he should be working for NASA rather than the highway patrol. The point is that not every "observation" about speed is necessarily one that we should assume is reasonable. Otherwise, the judicial function is rendered nugatory.

[JL514]

Cepe, thank you for your honest reply. I did not have an intention of going to court to "fight" the ticket, but to ask for leniency. I had planned on saying something like:

"I just got back after a month of letting the car sit, and wanted to take it out to make sure it was still in good condition. I accelerated quickly to stress the engine, but did not realize I was speeding. I was not in a rush to go anywhere, speeding was never my intention, and I immediately slowed down after testing the gears..."

Which is the honest truth. But the more I think about it, the more skeptical I become about the pacing. As I said, The stretch of road was less than a half mile, and I accelerated, but had to slow down almost immediately to change lanes and make a left hand turn at a light. I do not believe that the officer could have paced me for any sufficient amount of time to get an accurate reading.

Should I go with the "I'm sorry, I honestly didn't realize" approach? Maybe bring my airplane tickets with me to show I really was gone for a month?

Or do I go with the questioning of pacing, with a exact distance measurement of the strip in question?

Thanks again for your help.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by JL514

Cepe, thank you for your honest reply. I did not have an intention of going to court to "fight" the ticket, but to ask for leniency. I had planned on saying something like:

"I just got back after a month of letting the car sit, and wanted to take it out to make sure it was still in good condition. I accelerated quickly to stress the engine, but did not realize I was speeding. I was not in a rush to go anywhere, speeding was never my intention, and I immediately slowed down after testing the gears..."

Which is the honest truth. But the more I think about it, the more skeptical I become about the pacing. As I said, The stretch of road was less than a half mile, and I accelerated, but had to slow down almost immediately to change lanes and make a left hand turn at a light. I do not believe that the officer could have paced me for any sufficient amount of time to get an accurate reading.

Should I go with the "I'm sorry, I honestly didn't realize" approach? Maybe bring my airplane tickets with me to show I really was gone for a month?

Or do I go with the questioning of pacing, with a exact distance measurement of the strip in question?

Thanks again for your help.

Your intentions are irrelevant.

The only defense to speeding is that you were not speeding.

Ask for diversion (see next post).

[seniorjudge]

Standard answer

Here are some hints on appearing in court:

Dress professionally in clean clothes.

Do not wear message shirts.

Don't chew gum, smoke, or eat. (Smokers...pot or tobacco...literally stink. Remember that before you head for court.)

Bathe and wash your hair.

Do not bring small children or your friends.

Go to court beforehand some day before you actually have to go to watch how things go.

Speak politely and deferentially. If you argue or dispute something, do it professionally and without emotion.

Ask the court clerk who you talk to about a diversion (meaning you want to plead to a different, lesser charge), if applicable in your situation. Ask about traffic school and that the ticket not go on your record, if applicable. Ask also about getting a hardship driving permit, if applicable. Ask about drug court, if applicable.

From marbol:

“Judge...

You forgot the one thing that I've seen that seems to frizz up most judges these days:

If you have a cell phone, make DAMN SURE that it doesn't make ANY noise in the courtroom. This means when you are talking to the judge AND when you are simply sitting in the court room.

If you have a ‘vibrate’ position on your cell phone, MAKE sure the judge DOESN'T EVEN HEAR IT VIBRATE!

Turn it off or put it in silent mode where it flashes a LED if it rings. AND DON'T even DREAM about answering it if it rings.”

(Better yet, don’t carry your cell phone into the courtroom.)”


Here are six stories that criminal court judges hear the most (and I suggest you do not use them or variations of them):

1. I’ve been saved! (This is not religion specific; folks from all kinds of religious backgrounds use this one.)

2. My girlfriend/mother/sister/daughter/wife/ex-wife/niece/grandma/grand-daughter is pregnant/sick/dying/dead/crippled/crazy and needs my help.

3. I’ve got a job/military posting in [name a place five hundred miles away].

4. This is the first time I ever did this. (This conflicts with number 5 below, but that hasn’t stopped some defendants from using both.)

5. You’ve got the wrong guy. (A variation of this one is the phantom defendant story: “It wasn’t me driving, it was a hitchhiker I picked up. He wrecked the car, drug me behind the wheel then took off.” Or, another variation: “I was forced into it by a bad guy!”)

6. I was influenced by a bad crowd.

[url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=854687#post854687[/url]

Public defender’s advice

[url]http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/70300494.html[/url]


Other people may give you other advice; stand by.

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by JL514

Cepe, thank you for your honest reply. I did not have an intention of going to court to "fight" the ticket, but to ask for leniency. I had planned on saying something like:

"I just got back after a month of letting the car sit, and wanted to take it out to make sure it was still in good condition. I accelerated quickly to stress the engine, but did not realize I was speeding. I was not in a rush to go anywhere, speeding was never my intention, and I immediately slowed down after testing the gears..."

Which is the honest truth. But the more I think about it, the more skeptical I become about the pacing. As I said, The stretch of road was less than a half mile, and I accelerated, but had to slow down almost immediately to change lanes and make a left hand turn at a light. I do not believe that the officer could have paced me for any sufficient amount of time to get an accurate reading.

Should I go with the "I'm sorry, I honestly didn't realize" approach? Maybe bring my airplane tickets with me to show I really was gone for a month?

Or do I go with the questioning of pacing, with a exact distance measurement of the strip in question?

Thanks again for your help.

The feudal lords (judges) tend to ignore the law a lot and like you to beg for forgiveness, but it all depends on the judge.

When you get to court you will know after the first few defendants what is in store for you.

call the clerk and ask if the court offers "probation before judgement" for first time traffic offenses.

If it looks bad use the "i'm sorry approach and ask for "probation before judgement" - still not as good as dismissal but you will not get the conviction (or points and insurance hike) if you can stay clean for 6 months or so...

they may even profferr a reduction to a non-moving violation... you never know...but it is worth your time to try

[JL514]

Judge: the Advice from a Public Defender was a great read. Probably some of the funniest things I've read in a while, thank you.

Cepe & Judge: My sincerest thanks again for your efforts. I will most likely be calling ahead, and possibly sitting in on a session as suggested.

Thank you for the sound advice. But now, do I ask for a diversion or probation before judgment? Would I receive either more likely by mentioning that I've been in the area for nearly three years now and this has been my first violation?

This is not a sarcastic nor loaded question: Should I vary anything/act differently in the presence of a female judge? The officer told me it's usually a woman in the court room I'm headed to.