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A little confused about what constitutes kidnapping?

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OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Oh wow...

After rereading all of this, I'm not entirely convinced you even believe I'm the son! LOL. I get it. All your responses make sense now. :eek: And when you found out I was, in your mind, I had to be young. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. You weren't either.
No, we actually do want to help.

I suggest you sit down with mom and have her clarify exactly what she realistically wants to achieve in the divorce, then come back and post it in a paragraph or two.
 


Because this is your mother's legal issue. At 45, she really should be able to ask questions about her own situation herself. She should be able to research her issues online herself. It is not that complicated. My 80+yo mother is capable of it.

You are not a party to the case. How old are you, btw?
As blunt as it was I passed this along to her, stealth. I truly hope she will make the effort.

I just think that sometimes well educated people who grew up around technology really don't realize what it takes to get up to this sort of level when you barely know what a mouse is and you think your web browser is "the internet". How do you think so many little old ladies get scammed every day?

My youngest brother can tell spam from a real link in a glance. And I know people with master's degrees who can't. We sometimes take this sort of knowledge for granted.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
As blunt as it was I passed this along to her, stealth. I truly hope she will make the effort.

I just think that sometimes well educated people who grew up around technology really don't realize what it takes to get up to this sort of level when you barely know what a mouse is and you think your web browser is "the internet". How do you think so many little old ladies get scammed every day?

My youngest brother can tell spam from a real link in a glance. And I know people with master's degrees who can't. We sometimes take this sort of knowledge for granted.
As I said - my 80+yo mother is capable of navigating the 'Net. And I can guarantee you that she did not grow up surrounded by technology - it was in rather short supply in the DP camps in Germany, my friend.

At the end of the day, you are not a party to this divorce. THAT is why we're not giving you further help.
 
At the end of the day, you are not a party to this divorce. THAT is why we're not giving you further help.
So you're saying plain and simple, that if my mom posts on this forum, which will be her first forum ever, you will answer her with all the openness you have to give and none of the hostility that's been given towards me for speaking on her behalf?

So I'll just direct her to my threads and let her copy the questions which I copywrote, everything will be peachy? I'll give it a shot.

I don't see that working and to be honest people here will probably just give her the cold shoulder thinking it's me.
 
No, we actually do want to help.

I suggest you sit down with mom and have her clarify exactly what she realistically wants to achieve in the divorce, then come back and post it in a paragraph or two.
This is easy, considering the ever-changing plan for her successful integration into the workforce as an independent person is all we've discussed for months now. But it still doesn't get any of the technical questions answered. (not to mention this is the wrong forum.)

First. They've been married 22 years.

1. She doesn't want a divorce, but she's come to terms with him pushing for it and tried to get down to brass tacks.
2. She doesn't care if the house is sold or not, she just wants a place to live and raise her children.
3. She knows she needs a job and has already applied to several entry level pharm tech positions.
4. At the suggestion of several people, including my father and I, she wants to enter a 24 month adult program at the community college that will get her a certificate in pharm tech, rad tech, ultrasound tech, or something similar, and preferably one that will include an Associates degree as well. Although with all the remedials she would need the later may not be realistic. She would like spousal support to cover some or all of this.
5. She will realistically have the kids in her care more than 1/2 the year, but he will not budge on 50/50 joint custody despite that fact. She wants him to since it's not realistic.
6. She wants the child support that they are entitled to, not even necessarily general living expenses but if nothing else to put in a college fund since my father, who lucked into an advanced degree, neglected to fiscally prepare for any of my brother's future.
7. She would like spousal support to help with living expenses at the very least while she in what would be considered a rehabilitative period.
8. She would like some spousal support in Futuro to help bridge the income gap between what she will make and what the boys are accustomed to. Obviously it will be less than rehabilitative support, and obviously it will never meet the original lifestyle they had until she's been working for several years, but she's going from being the primary person in charge of a 6000 a month budget, to zero. I'm only looking at case studies here and she's not trying to be greedy.
9. She REALLY wants to know if this mediated divorce agreement is fair or if she would be better just letting it go to court. (My advice was that mediated is generally better, but if she doesn't sign by Friday he's filing a contested divorce. He sprung this on her in May, and said he's wanted a divorce for 8 years.) So again, she REALLY wants to get the pros and cons figured out.
10. She want's to be in control of her own finances after the divorce and not have to go through him every time she wants a pair of shoes for the kids.
11. She wonders (I personally wonder this too and I asked him.) Why should she leave? Why doesn't he take the money he was going to pay in spousal support for housing and go get himself an apartment. He is, after all, the one who wants the divorce. If he's only home for 3-4 hours a night and weekends, then why should he interrupt their normal lifestyle with a SAHM? Hell, my father already takes them somewhere every weekend (lake, etc) since this started. It's not like it would be any different.
 
Past educating herself and raising her children she's not really sure what else she wants. She currently doesn't think she'll remarry. Although my father never thought he'd want a divorce. He swears up and down he'll continue to support the children and that's why he doesn't want to pay child support. But the reason these things go to court is because 3-5 years down the line, those views might change. By either side.

In the current agreement alimony + child support comes to about 1200/mth or 20% of his income. The alimony is in the form of 2 years of cobra payments, 18 months of van payments, and 3 years of housing allotment. There is no perpetual spousal support written into this contract at this point. And I'm sorry if this sounds greedy, but when you divorce your wife of 22 years in TN you'd better be prepared to pay spousal support in Futuro.

However under the current agreement he remains in control of all these payments. She does not get any cash. So if she is able to get any of these things cheaper, then he benefits.
She simply wants to get a set amount and budget it according to her needs.

This agreement does not currently include a home equity buyout either, as he thinks he's just going to be able to turn around and sell the house and land, easy-peasy, splitting the profits. At my suggestion and with regard to the economy, he has considered the option of a buyout.
 
I have no worries for my father either since he is well educated and will go on to command an even higher salary as he continues accepting new job offers. However, he literally refuses to believe anything my mother tells him unless I double check it and personally explain it. He wants a divorce and he wants it now. When the city wouldn't let him file a divorce-in-a-box because of the 90 day waiting period involved with kids he went through the roof.

His most recent threat was to drag her through the mud splitting everything 50/50.
To be honest, they don't have much debt.
Right now she is almost wondering if she should let him.
 
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gr8rn

Senior Member
You need to have your Mom hire an attorney. She should not accept his offer without an attorney no way no how. 20% of his income? No WAY .
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Yes, 50/50 is fair. However the considerations include his retirement etc... I have a few things to comment on, though I am not a divorce expert. Shared custody, is not custodial parent. IE.. Just because they have shared custody, does not mean dad gets a significant break on C/S. The kids will be with mom if she is custodial parent. They are 2 different things time and money wise. Also, mom needs a clean financial break. Dad continuing to make the van payment etc.. leaves her under his thumb. From the background you have given, as mentioned, she needs to find a good lawyer to protect her interests. I would suggest one NOT in the small town that would be inclined to just play ball.
 
OP - Your mom needs to get a consult or two with a few attorneys. Go outside your town or county and find a few attorneys in the same judicial district.

Child support - is only for minor children. Even with 182.5 days each, there would still be child support. Go to the tennesee anytime website and download the calculator, put in the number of minor children, incomes and see what it would be.

One note on child support: you are not going to find a minimum wage statute for your mother's income, but if you'll look you'll find imputed income amounts for males/females that are higher. However, generally you will find that for a SAH parent, the court will impute at minimum wage (1256/mo). There will be an income for your Mom.

Alimony - it takes in so many factors for how much & how long. In futuro has gotten a lot harder. She really needs an attorney to look at all the assets and debts, etc. to get a good grasp. And, as someone has pointed out, retirement plans are also equally divided in the division of assets.

I can certainly understand she wants more financial independence after divorce and paying the rent is an odd choice, however, paying Cobra and paying the vehicle are not that unusual, as is the disadvantaged spouse getting a larger portion of assets.

I would also talk to an attorney about including a provision that Husband carries term life insurance and/or disability insurance for the amount of unpaid alimony or to satisfy the obligations agreed (vehicle, Cobra, etc.) in case something happens to Husband.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
I would also talk to an attorney about including a provision that Husband carries term life insurance and/or disability insurance for the amount of unpaid alimony or to satisfy the obligations agreed (vehicle, Cobra, etc.) in case something happens to Husband.
Wow, that is just BRUTAL. Not saying it wouldn't happen, I'm just saying that if I was a judge (and I'm certainly not), I would smack a litigant over the head with my gavel for suggesting that. Geez, a guy can't even terminate his obligations by DYING.
 
Wow, that is just BRUTAL. Not saying it wouldn't happen, I'm just saying that if I was a judge (and I'm certainly not), I would smack a litigant over the head with my gavel for suggesting that. Geez, a guy can't even terminate his obligations by DYING.
There is no emotion in it. If you choose to take alimony or part of a settlement to be paid over time (such as Husband paying off vehicle and carrying Cobra for a specified time) rather than receiving a lump sum at divorce, it's not uncommon at all to have life insurance to cover it.

It's not uncommon in TN (in fact there's a provision in the form parenting plan) to specify the parent paying child support to carry life insurance in an amount chosen by the parties to help offset child support should the parent paying support become deceased.

TN even has a provision in the standard injunction filed with all divorces to prohibit both parties from cancelling or changing beneficiaries on ALL types of insurance while the divorce is ongoing.
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
Wow, that is just BRUTAL. Not saying it wouldn't happen, I'm just saying that if I was a judge (and I'm certainly not), I would smack a litigant over the head with my gavel for suggesting that. Geez, a guy can't even terminate his obligations by DYING.
No. Any person's debt does not die with said person. Their Estate handles it. If the debtee :)) has no significant assets, then it is reasonable for the debtor to, in this legal situation, request a LIP to assist.

And as you are NOT a Judge...hush your muffin.

LIP's are ordered all the time. BY. JUDGES.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
So you're saying plain and simple, that if my mom posts on this forum, which will be her first forum ever, you will answer her with all the openness you have to give and none of the hostility that's been given towards me for speaking on her behalf?

So I'll just direct her to my threads and let her copy the questions which I copywrote, everything will be peachy? I'll give it a shot.

I don't see that working and to be honest people here will probably just give her the cold shoulder thinking it's me.
Surely your mother can come up with her own user name and post her questions in her own words.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Wow, that is just BRUTAL. Not saying it wouldn't happen, I'm just saying that if I was a judge (and I'm certainly not), I would smack a litigant over the head with my gavel for suggesting that. Geez, a guy can't even terminate his obligations by DYING.
That's absurd. Why should he be able to evade his legal obligations in any way?

It's actually not uncommon for someone to be ordered to carry life insurance sufficient to cover their obligations (divorce and otherwise) in the event of their death.
 

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