Admissable Evidence

[escape2paradise]

I am in WA.

I would like to submit text messaging records to the court. These are records of from my personal cell phone so my cell provider does not require a subpoena for me to obtain these. What is the proper way for me to present the records so that they will be admissable as evidence?

Are copies of dates, times and content from my provider admissable or will I need some sort of certification or affadavit from my provider attesting to their authenticity etc...?

 

[Zephyr]

do you have access to your state's Rules of Evidence?

 

[escape2paradise]

do you have access to your state's Rules of Evidence?

Yes, I looked it up and of course there is nothing specific to cell phones. The part that seems pertinent is

6) A document not specifically covered by any of the
foregoing provisions but relating to a material fact and having
equivalent circumstantial guaranties of trustworthiness, the
admission of which would serve the interests of justice.

Having read this I would assume yes, however, I have heard so many times on these boards that letters, police reports etc... are all inadmissable. I don't understand why, so thought that the cell phone records may be inadmissable as well without some form of authentification.

 

[Bloopy]

Yes, I looked it up and of course there is nothing specific to cell phones. The part that seems pertinent is

6) A document not specifically covered by any of the
foregoing provisions but relating to a material fact and having
equivalent circumstantial guaranties of trustworthiness, the
admission of which would serve the interests of justice.

Having read this I would assume yes, however, I have heard so many times on these boards that letters, police reports etc... are all inadmissable. I don't understand why, so thought that the cell phone records may be inadmissable as well without some form of authentification.

Is your Ex going Pro se? When it comes to anything like this it boild down to how articulate the “objection” is and your ability to combat that.

I think the need for proof authenticity is much higher in the criminal courts than in family court. The family courts seem to looooove email and text messaging records. I think that eventually will lead to better standards to prove autheticity.

I think it’s best and fairest to have a complete record of a time period and to highlight and flag to “good parts.” If the records are incomplete, it looks as you are cherry picking and could be hiding something. But Hand a judge a big stack hot papers without selective highlighting and he/she may not want to waste his/her time.

Good Luck

 

[escape2paradise]

Is your Ex going Pro se? When it comes to anything like this it boild down to how articulate the “objection” is and your ability to combat that.

I think the need for proof authenticity is much higher in the criminal courts than in family court. The family courts seem to looooove email and text messaging records. I think that eventually will lead to better standards to prove autheticity.

I think it’s best and fairest to have a complete record of a time period and to highlight and flag to “good parts.” If the records are incomplete, it looks as you are cherry picking and could be hiding something. But Hand a judge a big stack hot papers without selective highlighting and he/she may not want to waste his/her time.

Good Luck

Yes, unbelievably it appears that the X is going to go Pro Se. I thought for sure that he would get another attorney, but time is running out. I don't know how easy it will be for him to get an attorney the closer we get to trial 3/25. Heck I don't even know if he will show up for trial. My attorney sent him a notice of deposition and subpoena for docs this last week. He sent it cert. mail w/ return receipt. The PO was unable to deliver and left a notice for pick up. The X has yet to pick it up. I doubt he will. I think getting him to cooperate is going to be like pulling teeth.

I will be handing over all cell and text messaging records and will highlight the pertinent parts. I have already given the cell info to the GAL showing that the X was calling DD 10-20 times a day and texting in between. I have sent off to my cell provider for the actual contents of the text messages and am hoping they will send it to me. I have only ever seen a couple of the messages. The ones I did see included one telling daughter not to listen to me that she could do whatever she wanted and that I couldn't do anything about it. There was another saying that my husband was a homosexual, however, the way he said it was much cruder.

I don't think that he could successfully argue for the records to be excluded by himself. However, from what I've seen, the judges here give Pro Se litigants a lot of leeway and help.

 

[acmb05]

Yes, unbelievably it appears that the X is going to go Pro Se. I thought for sure that he would get another attorney, but time is running out. I don't know how easy it will be for him to get an attorney the closer we get to trial 3/25. Heck I don't even know if he will show up for trial. My attorney sent him a notice of deposition and subpoena for docs this last week. He sent it cert. mail w/ return receipt. The PO was unable to deliver and left a notice for pick up. The X has yet to pick it up. I doubt he will. I think getting him to cooperate is going to be like pulling teeth.

I will be handing over all cell and text messaging records and will highlight the pertinent parts. I have already given the cell info to the GAL showing that the X was calling DD 10-20 times a day and texting in between. I have sent off to my cell provider for the actual contents of the text messages and am hoping they will send it to me. I have only ever seen a couple of the messages. The ones I did see included one telling daughter not to listen to me that she could do whatever she wanted and that I couldn't do anything about it. There was another saying that my husband was a homosexual, however, the way he said it was much cruder.

I don't think that he could successfully argue for the records to be excluded by himself. However, from what I've seen, the judges here give Pro Se litigants a lot of leeway and help.

The cell providers will not have that information.

That being said. There are programs you can get off the internet that allows you to read the sim card of a cell phone and recover lost or deleted text messages. You would have to buy a sim card reader for it to work and I have not priced those. Ok I just looked it up and they range from about 8 bucks up top $49.99 really very cheap. I actually have one built into my printer/scanner/fax machine.

 

[Bloopy]

The cell providers will not have that information.

That being said. There are programs you can get off the internet that allows you to read the sim card of a cell phone and recover lost or deleted text messages. You would have to buy a sim card reader for it to work and I have not priced those. Ok I just looked it up and they range from about 8 bucks up top $49.99 really very cheap. I actually have one built into my printer/scanner/fax machine.

This is true. Can you imagine the societal freak out if people found out that cell phone carriers were keeping track of the contents of their text messaging? Even if Big Brother is keeping tabs, it would take a lot more than a custody case for them to admit it.

Try the Sim reader but that sounds a bit sketchy. If you’ve locked/saved any messages email them to yourself to print them. Even one of those inappropriate messages is enough to sink Dad.

I don't think that he could successfully argue for the records to be excluded by himself. However, from what I've seen, the judges here give Pro Se litigants a lot of leeway and help.

If your judge throws him that bone, it will really be because the GAL has already read/seen the records. The judge may not want to waste his/her time when all the GAL has to do is confirm the excessiveness. It’s not like the GAL can un-look at those records. You have nothing to worry about.

 

[acmb05]

This is true. Can you imagine the societal freak out if people found out that cell phone carriers were keeping track of the contents of their text messaging? Even if Big Brother is keeping tabs, it would take a lot more than a custody case for them to admit it.

Try the Sim reader but that sounds a bit sketchy. If you’ve locked/saved any messages email them to yourself to print them. Even one of those inappropriate messages is enough to sink Dad.

You could do that but emails are to easy to manipulate. You could send it to yourself and then change the wording in it. With stuff taken directly off the sim card there is no way to change it. I am downloading one of the programs now to see how it works. This could be very useful to check on your kids text messaging.

 

[Bloopy]

You could do that but emails are to easy to manipulate. You could send it to yourself and then change the wording in it. With stuff taken directly off the sim card there is no way to change it. I am downloading one of the programs now to see how it works. This could be very useful to check on your kids text messaging.

I agree and would love to hear how the SIM reader worked out. There isn’t much of a push for authenticity in the family courts but there should be. I think this will change over time.

This Dad has really sunk himself with the GAL with uber creepy stalker behavior towards daughter. The GAL would likely read the info in any form according to my crystal ball.

 

[escape2paradise]

My cell provider doesn't have phones with Sim cards. As far as I know, there is only one provider that actually does, T Mobile. I know an aquaintence with a different cell provider who was able to get text messages from her provider, that's how I came up with the idea.

I have a few reasons for wanting the cell regards admissable. The text messages are only one, so if that is not available then I still want what is.

I am going to subpoena the X's records as well. For one, I want to show the court that he was in town the day he had DD run away the last time. He claimed to be out of the State. The day before she ran he called the GAL and also claimed. Too bad he didn't plan the whole thing a little better. His cell records will show his location when he called me, the GAL etc... that day. Everybody knows he was involved, including the GAL. I just want to make sure we have as much info point the judge in that direction as well. I also need to show that he was in contempt of the last order. He didn't like that the judge placed restrictions on when he could call. He bought DD a cell phone and then continued to call, call, call, text, text, text. He thought I would never be able to show this, since I can't see the bills monthly. I guess he forgot about subpoena's.

 

[Ronin]

As with much evidence in family law cases... it depends.

For your attorney to get it entered as 'evidence', your ex will likely have to be confronted with it in court, at which point he can either admit or deny it. Whatever he admits to is easy money for your lawyer. If he denies it, then the judge will likely dismiss the denied evidence unless you make a convincing response or an offer of proof.

While any good lawyer would stand up an argue that electronic communications can be manipulated, which they can be, the judge will already know that stuff. With text messaging and emails and such, it will likely be dismissed if he strongly denies it and it comes down to your word against his. If your attorney is smart, he/she would likely setup the line of questioning and work him into a corner with other questions before asking him whether or not he sent those. But if you already gave your ex a heads up you are going to attempt to use this in court against him, he will be better prepared for this and on the defensive.

 

[escape2paradise]

I haven't sent the subpoena yet. We are supposed to depose the X very soon so hop-efully the attorney can set it up as you've suggested.

As far as any good attorney being able to argue against it, he doesn't have one of those. He has himself. I'm not trying to be mean, but he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I am shocked that he would attempt to rep himself. Especially since he started this whole thing with one of the best attorney's in town.

How can text messages be altered when the report of the message contents would come straight from the cell provider?

 

[Ronin]

I did not say that he had to personally argue against it, since most judges already know what this argument is. Since your ex is pro se, it will be up to the judges discretion whether or not to accept or reject the evidence. I am guessing the judge would 'tend to lean' toward rejecting it unless you come up with something solid.

As Bloopy questioned, I do not believe that you will get this text info directly from the cellular provider. However I may be wrong here, and would not be surprised if you did. Homeland security is raising the specter of big brother watching everything we say and do these days...

 

[acmb05]

My cell provider doesn't have phones with Sim cards. As far as I know, there is only one provider that actually does, T Mobile. I know an aquaintence with a different cell provider who was able to get text messages from her provider, that's how I came up with the idea.

I have a few reasons for wanting the cell regards admissable. The text messages are only one, so if that is not available then I still want what is.

I am going to subpoena the X's records as well. For one, I want to show the court that he was in town the day he had DD run away the last time. He claimed to be out of the State. The day before she ran he called the GAL and also claimed. Too bad he didn't plan the whole thing a little better. His cell records will show his location when he called me, the GAL etc... that day. Everybody knows he was involved, including the GAL. I just want to make sure we have as much info point the judge in that direction as well. I also need to show that he was in contempt of the last order. He didn't like that the judge placed restrictions on when he could call. He bought DD a cell phone and then continued to call, call, call, text, text, text. He thought I would never be able to show this, since I can't see the bills monthly. I guess he forgot about subpoena's.

Ok I go tthe program going and found out that you do not need a SIM card you can just plug your phone into the computer with a USB cord that fits it. It reads the internal memory. It worked on my phone when I tested it and pulled up messages from well over a year ago. This is actually a very cool program.

If you type in "cell phone text message recovery" in google it will give you a bunch of different ones to look over.

 

[majomom1]

Ok I go tthe program going and found out that you do not need a SIM card you can just plug your phone into the computer with a USB cord that fits it. It reads the internal memory. It worked on my phone when I tested it and pulled up messages from well over a year ago. This is actually a very cool program.

If you type in "cell phone text message recovery" in google it will give you a bunch of different ones to look over.

Wow.... I will have to check this out. I need it for Monday!!!

I have TMobile and they say they cannot provide any of the text messages. When I forward it to my email... it does not work. I used an actual camera and took pictures of the messages on my phone! (I still have them saved on my phone too.)

I have a sim card, but don't have the reader or any USB cable either. I will be shopping tomorrow!!