Alimony/child support during separation

[inthetrailer]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OHIO

My wife and I have been informally separated for almost a full year now. We had another house which I was living in but sold it two months ago. I've been living on our property in a trailer since then, hence the screen name. Everything is still shared between us - we have equal access to bank accounts, etc., and while we have talked about filing we never do anything about it. I am finally ready to make this a legal separation.

We are both fairly cheap people, and things are amicable between us, and I think we will try to do most of this on our own with the exception of hiring a lawyer at the end to review the docs before filing. She saw a lawyer earlier this year and has some idea of what she can get. I have a better idea and know that she can totally screw me if this goes to divorce. I would like to come up with a very fair offer for her, one that she will accept without making her question if I am trying to get the best of her.

We are both 35 and been married 14 years now. She hadn't worked in over 10 years but just got a job last month making $10/hr, 20 hrs a week. I made $145k last year and am blowing that out this year (in sales and having a great year), but who knows what next year holds - I could make half that. We have 3 kids all 10 years old and under. I know I'm on the hook for some serious alimony and child support payments and that's where I have questions.

Using various child support calculators and the one in Ohio law it looks like I should be paying anywhere from $1900 to $2200 a month, and I am planning to offer her $1500-$2000 in alimony for 3 years. When we file the separation will I have to notify my employer and have them take these out of my pay, or can I just send a check directly to her? Or, better yet (for me), is there any way to do these "under the table", as in, in the Separation Agreement state there is no alimony or child support, but I will still pay her those amounts anyway...? My fear here is twofold, I don't want my work to know what is going on, and if my pay suddenly drops and I can't afford to pay those amounts next year I don't want to be in a lot of trouble with the state. She understands the situation and (I think) would agree to this arrangement if there was a way to do it.

One other question, once this files can I still keep her on my health insurance or will she have to get her own?

Thanks in advance.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[Isis1]

If keeping this out of your boss' eye is your main concern, then yes, you can pay her directly through a court order. As long as you comply with that order in a timely manner, the courts would not push for a wage garnishment. However, i have been hearing that the states are looking to do wage garnishments as a requirement from the start instead of waiting for someone to default. Not yet, but in the future.

Now, alimony is tax deductible for you, so you don't want that under the table anyway. Child support will be determined. And it protects you, her, and the children to get a court order for such.

In my years scoping the internet and a few forums, i've only seen "you've should have gotten a court order" or "i could kick myself for not getting a court order". I have yet to see anyone say, "i didn't get a court order and it was the best decision ever".

 

[mistoffolees]

When we file the separation will I have to notify my employer and have them take these out of my pay, or can I just send a check directly to her? Or, better yet (for me), is there any way to do these "under the table", as in, in the Separation Agreement state there is no alimony or child support, but I will still pay her those amounts anyway...? My fear here is twofold, I don't want my work to know what is going on, and if my pay suddenly drops and I can't afford to pay those amounts next year I don't want to be in a lot of trouble with the state. She understands the situation and (I think) would agree to this arrangement if there was a way to do it.

One other question, once this files can I still keep her on my health insurance or will she have to get her own?

There's no reason to notify your employer. If the order says you have to pay $xxxx, then you can give her a check for $xxxx each month. As long as you pay on time, no one else will be involved.

Some people CHOOSE to have the state child support enforcement group get involved (or, if you stop paying and she has to go to court to go after you, then CSE will probably be involved) as it can make things easier for both parties. But it's not usually a requirement.

If your income drops dramatically, you can probably file for modification (check the rules in your state), so you don't need to spend too much time worrying about 'what if').

She will probably not be able to keep you on her insurance. There are some companies that allow it, but most don't. She can continue to cover the kids, but not you.

You didn't ask, but I don't really like the idea of "an" attorney reviewing the final agreement. An attorney can only represent one of you. I would suggest that you each have your own attorney review the agreement - it shouldn't cost that much and will ensure that you're both covered. HOWEVER, you will both need to be firm with the attorney that you're happy with the proposed agreement and are not looking to get into a battle to fight for every penny.

 

[CJane]

You absolutely should NOT attempt to get Mom to agree to any sort of "under the table" agreement.

First of all, I have no idea why you care if your employer knows that you're getting divorced/paying child support/whatever.

Second of all, there are tax issues. Alimony = a tax deduction for you and a liability for Mom. It counts as income for her. And, in fact, that amount should be included in child support calculations.

Thirdly, neither of you is protected by an "under the table" agreement. It will only create problems, not solve them.

 

[Ohiogal]

Wrong. IN OHIO child support MUST be paid through CSEA.

Also are you looking at a legal separation, a dissolution, or a divorce?

 

[Isis1]

Wrong. IN OHIO child support MUST be paid through CSEA.

Also are you looking at a legal separation, a dissolution, or a divorce?

Just for clarification, oh chocolate one....can he pay directly to CSEA, or do they have to garnish?

 

[inthetrailer]

Wow, that sounds like it was a really bad idea. OK. Point taken - put it all in the agreement. I am looking to turn our informal separation into a legal separation, and if things don't change in a year file for dissolution.

I don't want my work to know as I work at a really small place and the politics are bad enough already. If there's any convenient way for them to not garnish (like, setting up direct deposit to an account owned by her or something) that would be ideal for me. But if I don't have a choice then it is what it is.

This is exactly what scares me:

I would suggest that you each have your own attorney review the agreement - it shouldn't cost that much and will ensure that you're both covered. HOWEVER, you will both need to be firm with the attorney that you're happy with the proposed agreement and are not looking to get into a battle to fight for every penny.

She is not a firm person. I am fairly certain that if she retains an attorney that she will be talked into ditching whatever we have agreed to (because it would be fair to both of us) and coming after me very aggressively...

 

[Isis1]

Technically, what you might want to look into a mediator, as opposed to hiring an attorney.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OHIO

My wife and I have been informally separated for almost a full year now. We had another house which I was living in but sold it two months ago. I've been living on our property in a trailer since then, hence the screen name. Everything is still shared between us - we have equal access to bank accounts, etc., and while we have talked about filing we never do anything about it. I am finally ready to make this a legal separation.

We are both fairly cheap people, and things are amicable between us, and I think we will try to do most of this on our own with the exception of hiring a lawyer at the end to review the docs before filing. She saw a lawyer earlier this year and has some idea of what she can get. I have a better idea and know that she can totally screw me if this goes to divorce. I would like to come up with a very fair offer for her, one that she will accept without making her question if I am trying to get the best of her.

We are both 35 and been married 14 years now. She hadn't worked in over 10 years but just got a job last month making $10/hr, 20 hrs a week. I made $145k last year and am blowing that out this year (in sales and having a great year), but who knows what next year holds - I could make half that. We have 3 kids all 10 years old and under. I know I'm on the hook for some serious alimony and child support payments and that's where I have questions.

Using various child support calculators and the one in Ohio law it looks like I should be paying anywhere from $1900 to $2200 a month, and I am planning to offer her $1500-$2000 in alimony for 3 years. When we file the separation will I have to notify my employer and have them take these out of my pay, or can I just send a check directly to her? Or, better yet (for me), is there any way to do these "under the table", as in, in the Separation Agreement state there is no alimony or child support, but I will still pay her those amounts anyway...? My fear here is twofold, I don't want my work to know what is going on, and if my pay suddenly drops and I can't afford to pay those amounts next year I don't want to be in a lot of trouble with the state. She understands the situation and (I think) would agree to this arrangement if there was a way to do it.

I doubt that there is any way that a judge, in a situation like this one, would let you get away with a divorce decree that did not at least outline child support, and probably alimony as well. Your wife would also be a fool to allow you to do that either. You shouldn't want it either because then you wouldn't be able to deduct the alimony from your taxes.

If your income drops, then you have the option of taking things back to court for a modification.

These days, it is much more the norm for support to be garnished from paychecks. There is usually no stigma attached to that. However, a judge may allow you to pay her directly, but it will be just as enforceable. You will not be able to reduce the amounts without taking it back to court for a modification.

One other question, once this files can I still keep her on my health insurance or will she have to get her own?

Many, if not most employer plans don't allow that. She can purchase COBRA for a specified period of time, but its often more economical (assuming there are no outstanding medical issues) to get private insurance rather than COBRA.

Seriously, having the financial issues outlines and ordered legally honestly protects everyone, yourself included. Don't allow embarrisment to get in the way of doing things the smart way.

 

[LdiJ]

Wow, that sounds like it was a really bad idea. OK. Point taken - put it all in the agreement. I am looking to turn our informal separation into a legal separation, and if things don't change in a year file for dissolution.

I don't want my work to know as I work at a really small place and the politics are bad enough already. If there's any convenient way for them to not garnish (like, setting up direct deposit to an account owned by her or something) that would be ideal for me. But if I don't have a choice then it is what it is.

This is exactly what scares me:

She is not a firm person. I am fairly certain that if she retains an attorney that she will be talked into ditching whatever we have agreed to (because it would be fair to both of us) and coming after me very aggressively...

Why would you automatically assume that if she hires an attorney the attorney will discourage her from signing a fair agreement? I hope that you are not planning to offer her a less than equitable agreement hoping that she will think its "fair".

The worst you are looking at is that she gets half of the marital assets (net of the marital debts, which I assume you will be wise enough to take on, since its your credit that will be mostly effected), Alimony for anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the length of the marriage, guideline child support until your child age out of child support, and perhaps you will be required to pay her attorney fees.

No matter how agressive an attorney gets, you are not looking at any worse than that...because of course you would have a good attorney as well.

However, if the two of you come up with an agreement that is fairly close to that, and come up with fair agreements regarding the custody of your children, I cannot imagine why any attorney she consulted would discourage her from signing.

You really do want her to consult her own attorney.

 

[Ohiogal]

I doubt that there is any way that a judge, in a situation like this one, would let you get away with a divorce decree that did not at least outline child support, and probably alimony as well. Your wife would also be a fool to allow you to do that either. You shouldn't want it either because then you wouldn't be able to deduct the alimony from your taxes.

If your income drops, then you have the option of taking things back to court for a modification.

These days, it is much more the norm for support to be garnished from paychecks. There is usually no stigma attached to that. However, a judge may allow you to pay her directly, but it will be just as enforceable. You will not be able to reduce the amounts without taking it back to court for a modification.



Many, if not most employer plans don't allow that. She can purchase COBRA for a specified period of time, but its often more economical (assuming there are no outstanding medical issues) to get private insurance rather than COBRA.

Seriously, having the financial issues outlines and ordered legally honestly protects everyone, yourself included. Don't allow embarrisment to get in the way of doing things the smart way.

If they are LEGALLY SEPARATED, he can still cover her on his insurance. And did you read what I STATED Ld? You know NOTHING about Ohio law. He must pay THROUGH CSEA when it comes to child support.

He may be able to pay directly HOWEVER CSEA will send the order directly to his employer for garnishment once it is received because THAT IS THE LAW. Ohio is very stringent about having employers deduct child support. And employers in Ohio are NOT allowed to hold it against an employee.

 

[Isis1]

As i was muttering about service time frames for massachusett courts. I had an idea.

If OP, was concerned about the stigma of a wage garnishment coming through the mail or fax machine directly to payroll, if he were to take the order himself to submit it to payroll, he'd still come out looking responsible. Not forced into it. Just a thought.

 

[inthetrailer]

Sorry to bring this back up, but one other thought occurred to me. Assuming we file for the legal separation and have it recorded before end of year... if we later (let's say, two years from now) choose to convert this to a dissolution, will the Separation Agreement we filed at the time of separation still be valid or will we have to file a new agreement for the dissolution? This is in OHIO again. I can create a separate topic for this if it's way off.

The concern here is we have already agreed to CS and maintenance amounts based on the income and standard of living at the time of the separation (now). My income could significantly grow in the next two years and I need to know if/when we go to convert this will we have to then revisit CS and maintenance at the future income or can we keep the existing numbers on the agreement.

To take this a bit further, since we have agreed that I will pay 3 years of maintenance, if our separation lasts longer than 3 years and maintenance is complete, if we then convert to dissolution will I be on the hook for MORE or will the original agreement be valid?

To address one of the previous questions, I am indeed offering a fair and equitable maintenance package to her. Maybe TOO fair from what I've heard other people in similar situations have received. But she will have the kids most of the time and IMO it would be foolish to not ensure they are taken care of well. But at the same time, if I make more money after we are legally separated I would like to keep some of it.

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry to bring this back up, but one other thought occurred to me. Assuming we file for the legal separation and have it recorded before end of year... if we later (let's say, two years from now) choose to convert this to a dissolution, will the Separation Agreement we filed at the time of separation still be valid or will we have to file a new agreement for the dissolution? This is in OHIO again. I can create a separate topic for this if it's way off.

The concern here is we have already agreed to CS and maintenance amounts based on the income and standard of living at the time of the separation (now). My income could significantly grow in the next two years and I need to know if/when we go to convert this will we have to then revisit CS and maintenance at the future income or can we keep the existing numbers on the agreement.

To take this a bit further, since we have agreed that I will pay 3 years of maintenance, if our separation lasts longer than 3 years and maintenance is complete, if we then convert to dissolution will I be on the hook for MORE or will the original agreement be valid?

To address one of the previous questions, I am indeed offering a fair and equitable maintenance package to her. Maybe TOO fair from what I've heard other people in similar situations have received. But she will have the kids most of the time and IMO it would be foolish to not ensure they are taken care of well. But at the same time, if I make more money after we are legally separated I would like to keep some of it.

Child support is always modifiable therefore you can and should expect that if your income increases, that child support will increase.

When you file for dissolution it is possible that alimony could be revisited at that time.

Ohiogal has stated many times on these forums that alimony in Ohio is generally anywhere from one year of alimony for every 2 years or marriage, or one year of alimony for every 3 year of marriage. Since you have been married for 14 years, that would be about 4.5 years to 7 year of alimony. 3 years obviously falls short of that.

 

[inthetrailer]

Child support is always modifiable therefore you can and should expect that if your income increases, that child support will increase.

When you file for dissolution it is possible that alimony could be revisited at that time.

Ohiogal has stated many times on these forums that alimony in Ohio is generally anywhere from one year of alimony for every 2 years or marriage, or one year of alimony for every 3 year of marriage. Since you have been married for 14 years, that would be about 4.5 years to 7 year of alimony. 3 years obviously falls short of that.

I get that the CS is always modifiable, that's no problem. My main concern is revisiting alimony should we convert from separation to dissolution. If I've paid for 2 years of it already when we file for dissolution, and we agreed to 3 years total, I'd rather not start the clock over when the filing is complete.

Re: the length of time, we are both fully aware of the typical alimony guidelines however I offered to pay more (monthly) than "normal" but for a shorter period of time. If the judge doesn't like our agreement we have agreed to reduce the monthly amount and make the alimony payout within the typical timeframes.