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Breaking Lease early

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south

Senior Member
Ok that narrowed that down

JETX said:
Though not relevant to the issue, the obvious answer is in refusing to comply with the HQS of HUD. Simply, the OP is not using 'negligence' correctly as the landlord is purposely refusing to comply.


Not relevant to the issue. See above.


Not relevant to the issue. Not relevant as the ONLY issue is the HUD decertification of the property due to the landlords refusal to comply.


Not relevant to the issue. See above. As for the 'leaving in same condition', that is clearly a desire of the tenant in trying to NOT screw the landlord by walking on the property.... and trying to get her deposit back.


No. HUD would not decertify if that was the case.


Not relevant to the issue. See above.


Not accurate. The only thing we KNOW is that the "failed inspection because the owner failed (or refused) to make the needed repairs." and "they are giving me my certificate back to go find another home."
Bottom line (unless you know something else)... is that HUD has 'decertified' the property and is no longer going to pay their share. The landlord is trying to demand the full rent (and lease obligation) from the Section 8 tenant. That is NOT allowed by the landlords agreement with HUD.


Not relevant to the issue.
 


ENASNI

Senior Member
so

aut disce aut discede
So... to make this clear to me... if you do not mind.

Per JETX
If she was in a Section 8 approved dwelling already... HUD inspected it and it failed... she can break lease and if leaves apartment pristine... gets SD back

arguement

Per South.
If she was in a complex... with a voucher and that complex was trying to get approved, but then failed... she is stuck with her lease and the problems that come with it..

Do I have it right?
I don't think Elizabeth is coming back... it got too hairy in here. :eek:
 

south

Senior Member
This the black hole thread stand back you might get sucked in.


ENASNI said:
aut disce aut discede
So... to make this clear to me... if you do not mind.

Per JETX
If she was in a Section 8 approved dwelling already... HUD inspected it and it failed... she can break lease and if leaves apartment pristine... gets SD back

arguement

Per South.
If she was in a complex... with a voucher and that complex was trying to get approved, but then failed... she is stuck with her lease and the problems that come with it..

Do I have it right?
I don't think Elizabeth is coming back... it got too hairy in here. :eek:
 

JETX

Senior Member
ENASNI said:
Per JETX
If she was in a Section 8 approved dwelling already... HUD inspected it and it failed... she can break lease and if leaves apartment pristine... gets SD back
Nope. And that is NOT what I said.
I provided a link to one of the housing authority websites which said:
"If items that failed inspection are not repaired in the required time, KCHA may begin withholding housing assistance payments. The tenant cannot be held responsible for the Housing Authority's portion of the rent. When the repairs have been made and the unit passes the final HQS inspection, the Housing Authority will resume housing assistance payments, prorated from the date of the inspection."

From that, my assumption is that the lease would remain.... but that the tenant would only be obligated to pay the pre-arranged (and accepted) amount... and that HUD would no longer be obligated to pay their share.

I really don't understand how assumed intelligent people can't 'follow the ball'... or simply assume the ball will 'bounce' somewhere else.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
JETX said:
I really don't understand how assumed intelligent people can't 'follow the ball'... or simply assume the ball will 'bounce' somewhere else.
I haven't had the balls since my second divorce ;)
 

zippysgoddess

Senior Member
My goodness. This sure got interesting, didn't it?

If she moved into the unit, conditional on it being approved by HUD and it wasn't then she wouldn't be stuck with a lease. However that doesn't sound right for this situation since she said she had been living there for months.

(I am disabled and my DH is also, as well as being a full time student so we are on HUD!)

HUD does a yearly inspection, they often conduct it early, around 7 or 8 months into the lease. That way if repairs are needed, the landlord has 30days to make them before reinspection, this continues until they pass it, as long as the landlord complies, so that when the year is up and the lease is ready for renewal there are no delays in the LL being sent his rent checks.

So it is highly possible, while we can't be sure just from the OP's statement, that HUD insistuted the inspection, failed it and the LL just doesn't want to be bothered with their nitpicking type or repairs.

Or, she could have had a problem with something needing fixed, the LL refused to do it and she had to call HUD for enforcement.

LL/Tenant issues are a whole different ball game when there are HUD agreements in place, they are binding over all else. JETX is right on that. Those must considered first when someone is on Section 8.

As to the security deposit, if there are tenant caused damages to the apartment, even if you are moving because of breach of HUD contract, he can still keep it to cover his repairs. HUD only sets the limits of how much he can charge for a deposit, they can't force him to give it back.
 

elizabethrae

Junior Member
I didnt mean to cause such a dispute here, sorry. I only get on the net about once a day, so I didnt see all your questions until just now South, sorry. Anyhow to answer your first question, I had my section 8 certificate when I moved in there. I have actually been on section 8 since 1997 when I became disabled. To answer some of your other questions:

What was the landlord exactly negligent of?
she is refusing to make necessary repairs to the home, after I requested them, and after the Housing Authority requested them.
What exactly is he refusing to fix or repair?
The house seems to have no insulation, and the windows are very drafty (Theyre rigged, not the right size windows for the holes). During the winter months (in Ohio) I literally had to put my kids to sleep with their winter coats on under several layers of blankets. I also put space heaters in each room. The electrical outlets are in very bad shape, maybe 1 in 4 outlets work. The water pressure is terrible for the bathroom, it literally takes me 15-20 minutes to fill a regular size bathtub halfway with water. There are 100 other little problems, but those are the only 3 Im really concerned about, they are the only ones I ever complained about to the landlord and eventually the housing authority.
What has happened to house in last 7 months?
The weather got colder, therefore revealing the drafty windows and extremely cold circumstances. I also basically got tired of hering that she was sending someone out to fix these things, so I went to the housing authority.
Tenant states they are leaving in the same condition they rented it in, so what is wrong with it now?
Why do you ask the same question twice?
Did the tenant cause the dis-repair?
No
Has something been damaged by tenant?
My son broke a closet door which I replaced with a brand new door, and I let her know about that, just in case she noticed, she wouldnt think I was hiding anything. That was a couple months ago though


I hope that answered all your questions south. The whole scenario is this. Last August, I was in a hurry to move because I couldnt stand where I was at (duplex, noisy neighbors, etc.). I was dead set on finding a single family home, which I found here. If you guys know anything about Section 8, at least the way it operates here, you go to the Housing Authority office, and request your certificate so that you can start looking for a new home. You can only have it for 30 days though, after that it is in danger of being forfeited. When I found this home, I was on like my 25th day, so I was really in a hurry. It was August, so I didnt think anything about the windows being drafty or the cold weather problems, and I definitely didnt test each and every plug (which I now know to do). The original nspector that came out basically asked me if I wanted the house, I said yes, he approved it. You gotta love government employees huh? I started noticing the problems with the water and electricity immediately and started calling the landlord with them right away. It was excuse after excuse. When winter came is when I started complaining to the housing authority because I really couldnt stand the freezing temperatures. They came out and did an emergency inspection in early january. Told her the repairs she had to make, she never did it, but kept postponing and postponing until the HA finally gave up. They sent her the letter that they were going to be stopping the rent last week, but heres the kicker, they are still going to pay her rent through May 31. In doing some research, this was an abandoned house that this lady purchased last March, she probable did some cosmetic work on it, and though she would make a quick couple dollars, not knowing the work involved. She owns no other properties in this county, and hasnt in the last 5 years, except for her personal home. It just boils down to she got in over her head, she has commented to me many times that she wishes she could just sell the house and be done with it. I hope that straightens the story out for everyone, and thanks for the answer about the deposit Jet.
 

south

Senior Member
Ok this is what I am talking about; when the whole story comes out it sheds a whole new light on the subject..

These are major repairs.....

The landlord is not being bad here they are simply over their head in expensive corrections, its not so much refusing perhaps they just cannot afford thousands of dollars in repairs, and off course you deserve descent water pressure no drafts and to be comfortable.

The original inspector came out never mentioned the items; in his defense it was probably at a time when it was not drafty or cold and in the owners defense they were never informed in the beginning of the possible correction problems and expenses.

I think you need to reason with the landlord or contact the housing in your area and ask them to explain to the landlord to release you from the contract or fix the problems.

I think this landlord will have a hard time in court trying to win a case against you if it came to that.




elizabethrae said:
I didnt mean to cause such a dispute here, sorry. I only get on the net about once a day, so I didnt see all your questions until just now South, sorry. Anyhow to answer your first question, I had my section 8 certificate when I moved in there. I have actually been on section 8 since 1997 when I became disabled. To answer some of your other questions:

What was the landlord exactly negligent of?
she is refusing to make necessary repairs to the home, after I requested them, and after the Housing Authority requested them.
What exactly is he refusing to fix or repair?
The house seems to have no insulation, and the windows are very drafty (Theyre rigged, not the right size windows for the holes). During the winter months (in Ohio) I literally had to put my kids to sleep with their winter coats on under several layers of blankets. I also put space heaters in each room. The electrical outlets are in very bad shape, maybe 1 in 4 outlets work. The water pressure is terrible for the bathroom, it literally takes me 15-20 minutes to fill a regular size bathtub halfway with water. There are 100 other little problems, but those are the only 3 Im really concerned about, they are the only ones I ever complained about to the landlord and eventually the housing authority.
What has happened to house in last 7 months?
The weather got colder, therefore revealing the drafty windows and extremely cold circumstances. I also basically got tired of hering that she was sending someone out to fix these things, so I went to the housing authority.
Tenant states they are leaving in the same condition they rented it in, so what is wrong with it now?
Why do you ask the same question twice?
Did the tenant cause the dis-repair?
No
Has something been damaged by tenant?
My son broke a closet door which I replaced with a brand new door, and I let her know about that, just in case she noticed, she wouldnt think I was hiding anything. That was a couple months ago though


I hope that answered all your questions south. The whole scenario is this. Last August, I was in a hurry to move because I couldnt stand where I was at (duplex, noisy neighbors, etc.). I was dead set on finding a single family home, which I found here. If you guys know anything about Section 8, at least the way it operates here, you go to the Housing Authority office, and request your certificate so that you can start looking for a new home. You can only have it for 30 days though, after that it is in danger of being forfeited. When I found this home, I was on like my 25th day, so I was really in a hurry. It was August, so I didnt think anything about the windows being drafty or the cold weather problems, and I definitely didnt test each and every plug (which I now know to do). The original nspector that came out basically asked me if I wanted the house, I said yes, he approved it. You gotta love government employees huh? I started noticing the problems with the water and electricity immediately and started calling the landlord with them right away. It was excuse after excuse. When winter came is when I started complaining to the housing authority because I really couldnt stand the freezing temperatures. They came out and did an emergency inspection in early january. Told her the repairs she had to make, she never did it, but kept postponing and postponing until the HA finally gave up. They sent her the letter that they were going to be stopping the rent last week, but heres the kicker, they are still going to pay her rent through May 31. In doing some research, this was an abandoned house that this lady purchased last March, she probable did some cosmetic work on it, and though she would make a quick couple dollars, not knowing the work involved. She owns no other properties in this county, and hasnt in the last 5 years, except for her personal home. It just boils down to she got in over her head, she has commented to me many times that she wishes she could just sell the house and be done with it. I hope that straightens the story out for everyone, and thanks for the answer about the deposit Jet.
 

elizabethrae

Junior Member
Was there a point to your response? In all your posts on this thread, you never answered my question. Do I have a case to get my SD back??? You and the landlord can go have your little pity party elsewhere please. In over her head=negligence=not my fault.
 

ENASNI

Senior Member
um

I hate to jump back into the black hole here.. and JETX usually makes an appearance daily... but if you leave the dwelling in the same condition as you found it... and JETX says that Hud says you are allowed out of the lease... then yes.

Elizabeth, why... if you are in such communication with the housing authority can't they answer these questions for you.. I am not being catty here... just curious. I have not had to deal with them...are they not helpful?
 

elizabethrae

Junior Member
Its funny, the housing authority totally agrees with me on this one, they even called the landlord and she hung up on them. But, its not up to them to get my deposit back. Its up to me, and I just wanted to get a lawyers opinion to be sure I was right about that.
 

south

Senior Member
Im agreeing with you numb nuts, read the post

elizabethrae said:
Was there a point to your response? In all your posts on this thread, you never answered my question. Do I have a case to get my SD back??? You and the landlord can go have your little pity party elsewhere please. In over her head=negligence=not my fault.
 

JETX

Senior Member
ENASNI said:
and JETX says that Hud says you are allowed out of the lease... then yes.
Damn it!! I have NEVER, EVER said that the OP would be allowed out of her lease.

As I understand it (and based on the Housing Authority information I cited earlier), here is an example of how this thing (Section 8) works:
Landlord contracts with HUD and tenant for say, one year at $800 per month. Based on HUD's evaluation of the tenant, the tenant is liable for a portion of this amount (lets say $200) and the housing authority pays the remainder ($600) per month.
This would remain as long as the landlord complies with the HQS (Housing Quality Standards). If, as in this case, the property is no longer in compliance, the housing authority STOPS paying their percentage... but the tenants lease obligation of $200 per month continues.
The landlord simply loses the HUD portion due to his/her refusal to comply.... and the tenant would NOT be liable for that 'loss'.... for the full duration of the remaining lease.
Upon expiration, the tenant would presumably NOT have the lease extended.
Depending on the condition at the end of the lease period, the tenant may, or may not, get his/her deposit refund.
 

ENASNI

Senior Member
Whoa

I made the JET swear... omg the power.. :D
Hey man... the paralegal giving you the cold shoulder... sorry... here have a cookie... we can't all be a smart as you okay...
I happened to loan half my brain to my daughter taking some training tests for the SATs so I have an excuse... and it is Friday...so I am not gonna feel bad because I am gonna think you still like me JET... :)
 

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