Cease and desist

[threetime1]

I am sorry but not sure where to post this.

NC

This all started back in July. Our daughter was at the pool with two boys. Couple weeks later the homeowner association was asking for witnesses about someone busted a beer bottle at the pool and pool needed cleaned. They posted a very grainy video of some kids at the pool. Not one frame showed any beer at this pool. None carried in, none being drank, nothing. We got a letter in the mail stating it looked like our daughter blaming her. The letter stated we owed and we needed to release the other kids names so they could share the cost. It also stated if we paid then no one in the neighborhood would know it was us. We asked our daughter about this and she stated this didn't happen when she was down at the pool. So we ignored the letter. Few weeks latter we had to board members come and confront my wife using bully tactics, they were asked to leave and not return. They left, but we received another letter from their attorney stating same thing. We sent a cease and desist letter back to the lawyer. He wrote back refusing to cease and desist and that the HOA was just going to attach the $2050 to our dues. All this with no proof. What should we do? Can we sue for harassment?

 

[quincy]

I am sorry but not sure where to post this.

NC

This all started back in July. Our daughter was at the pool with two boys. Couple weeks later the homeowner association was asking for witnesses about someone busted a beer bottle at the pool and pool needed cleaned. They posted a very grainy video of some kids at the pool. Not one frame showed any beer at this pool. None carried in, none being drank, nothing. We got a letter in the mail stating it looked like our daughter blaming her. The letter stated we owed and we needed to release the other kids names so they could share the cost. It also stated if we paid then no one in the neighborhood would know it was us. We asked our daughter about this and she stated this didn't happen when she was down at the pool. So we ignored the letter. Few weeks latter we had to board members come and confront my wife using bully tactics, they were asked to leave and not return. They left, but we received another letter from their attorney stating same thing. We sent a cease and desist letter back to the lawyer. He wrote back refusing to cease and desist and that the HOA was just going to attach the $2050 to our dues. All this with no proof. What should we do? Can we sue for harassment?

You would be smart to consult with an attorney in your area for a review of the video and an interview with your daughter. The attorney can help you respond to the HOA threats.

How old is your daughter?

 

[threetime1]

You would be smart to consult with an attorney in your area for a review of the video and an interview with your daughter. The attorney can help you respond to the HOA threats.

How old is your daughter?

17

 

[quincy]

Thank you for answering my question.

Here is a link to North Carolina’s parental responsibility law (NCGSA 1-538.1):
https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_1/GS_1-538.1.html

The maximum amount you as a parent can be held liable for is $2000 in damages, under state law, if in fact there are witnesses who might point the finger at your daughter. Your attorney can advise you.

 

[threetime1]

Thank you for answering my question.

Here is a link to North Carolina’s parental responsibility law (NCGSA 1-538.1):
https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_1/GS_1-538.1.html

The maximum amount you can be held responsible for is $2000 in damages, under state law.

I appreciate the link, but our daughter didn't do this. There is no video proof nor anyone claiming they saw her do this. Just someone days later found glass. Can a lawyer just ignore a cease and desist letter? Can they just add money to our HOA dues without proof?

 

[quincy]

I appreciate the link, but our daughter didn't do this. There is no video proof nor anyone claiming they saw her do this. Just someone days later found glass. Can a lawyer just ignore a cease and desist letter? Can they just add money to our HOA dues without proof?

If you want to prevent the HOA from adding the amount of damages to your homeowner dues, you should consult with an attorney in your area.

HOA’s often think they have more power than they do and they will try to exert it, to the detriment of the homeowners who live in the community. Your attorney can set them straight.

 

[threetime1]

If you want to prevent the HOA from adding the amount of damages to your homeowner dues, you should consult with an attorney in your area.

HOA’s often think they have more power than they do and they will try to exert it, to the detriment of the homeowners who live in the community. Your attorney can set them straight.

It's just frustrating that I either spend the money on an attorney or the HOA. I am lawyered out at this point. I have spent around $60k on attorneys the past three years

 

[quincy]

It's just frustrating that I either spend the money on an attorney or the HOA. I am lawyered out at this point. I have spent around $60k on attorneys the past three years

I don’t think an attorney will cost you close to $2000 but you would be looking at a few hundred dollars - unless you can find free assistance at a legal aid clinic near you.

You might want to consider running for the HOA Board or you might want to consider moving in the future.

We perhaps see more complaints about HOAs than any other real estate problem on this forum.

As to a lawsuit, yes. You could sue the HOA if they add the clean-up costs to your dues.

 

[eerelations]

Can a lawyer just ignore a cease and desist letter?

Yes. C&D letters legally weigh less than the paper they're printed on.

 

[quincy]

Because of the placement of this thread in the Defamation section of the forum, I will include a link to the Digital Media Law Project’s (2014) overview of defamation law in North Carolina:

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/north-carolina-defamation-law

The only problem with ignoring a Cease and Desist letter is that a lawsuit could soon follow if the recipient of the letter does not in fact cease and desist. But the letter itself has no force of law behind it.

 

[zddoodah]

They posted a very grainy video of some kids at the pool.

Who are "they," and where did "they" post this video?

we had to board members come and confront my wife using bully tactics

Such as?

We sent a cease and desist letter back to the lawyer.

Asking him to cease and desist doing what?

He wrote back refusing to cease and desist and that the HOA was just going to attach the $2050 to our dues. All this with no proof. What should we do?

What does "attach the $2050 to our dues" mean? And is someone serious claiming that a single broken beer bottle in or near a pool required over $2,000 in cleaning? That's obviously absurd on its face.

Can we sue for harassment?

Anyone can sue anyone for anything, but nothing you've described constitutes illegal "harassment."

Unfortunately, you chose to live under the rule of an HOA, and this is exactly the sort of things that HOAs do that makes living in one a horrible idea. No one here knows what your HOA rules/by-laws say about a situation like this, and those rules/by-laws will govern how this will play out.

Can a lawyer just ignore a cease and desist letter?

Of course. What would make you think it might not be possible for a lawyer (or anyone else) to do this?

Can they just add money to our HOA dues without proof?

First of all, "proof" is nothing more than a quantum of evidence that is sufficient to persuade someone that a fact is or isn't true. It is unreasonable to believe that someone doesn't think some sort of evidence exists. You may not know what it is, and you might not think it's sufficient, but someone has some evidence.

Second, as noted above, what your HOA may and may not legally due is set forth in the rules/by-laws you agreed to when you moved in. Typically what happens is that any unpaid amount becomes a lien against your home that will have to be paid other otherwise taken care of when you sell your property.

 

[quincy]

Broken glass in a pool can lead to costly cleanup. I am not seeing the $2000 as an absurd figure. I am finding the threats and demands for payment a bit absurd, however, unless there is far more to support these beyond a “grainy video” and suspicions.

 

[threetime1]

Who are "they," and where did "they" post this video?

The HOA. We have cameras around all the property and there were 2 on the pool and one in the parking lot. None of which showed anyone carrying a case of beer in nor anyone drinking, throwing bottles, nothing. They also posted on the community board for help finding who did this.

Such as?

I meant two, not to. They came to our door trying to scare tactic her into admitting our daughter did it. Threatening to tell the community it was us.

Asking him to cease and desist doing what?

Sending letters demanding we pay for this cleanup

What does "attach the $2050 to our dues" mean? And is someone serious claiming that a single broken beer bottle in or near a pool required over $2,000 in cleaning? That's obviously absurd on its face.

It means exactly what it says. They said they will just attach it to our HOA dues and that means they can lean our home. Yes, the health department is clear on this subject. If there is broken glass around a pool, the pool must be drains, pressure washed, and vacuumed up before the pool can be opened back up.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything, but nothing you've described constitutes illegal "harassment."

I have to disagree. Multiple letters and people showing up at my house feel s like harassment to me.

Unfortunately, you chose to live under the rule of an HOA, and this is exactly the sort of things that HOAs do that makes living in one a horrible idea. No one here knows what your HOA rules/by-laws say about a situation like this, and those rules/by-laws will govern how this will play out.

What does it matter the rules of an HOA. There has to be proof.

Of course. What would make you think it might not be possible for a lawyer (or anyone else) to do this?

I know people can do anything they want, but there has to be repercussions.

First of all, "proof" is nothing more than a quantum of evidence that is sufficient to persuade someone that a fact is or isn't true. It is unreasonable to believe that someone doesn't think some sort of evidence exists. You may not know what it is, and you might not think it's sufficient, but someone has some evidence.

Second, as noted above, what your HOA may and may not legally due is set forth in the rules/by-laws you agreed to when you moved in. Typically what happens is that any unpaid amount becomes a lien against your home that will have to be paid other otherwise taken care of when you sell your property.

I am not sure. They gave the entire community the evidence they had, so I have to assume, that's it. They gave us a direct link to the pics and videos.

 

[quincy]

IF your family/your daughter finds that you are shunned or ridiculed in the community as a direct result of the false accusations, you could discuss with an attorney who specializes in defamation law if you have a defamation suit worth pursuing. Without severe injury to your reputations and demonstrable economic losses, however, I do not see that the high cost of a defamation lawsuit makes legal or financial sense.

I know you said you sent a cease and desist letter that was ignored by the HOA’s attorney. A cease and desist letter sent by YOUR attorney might make the HOA back off. Cease and desist letters, as said previously, have no force of law behind them BUT, when sent by an attorney to the offenders, the C&Ds can be more effective. The recipients are made aware that a lawyer has been contacted and a legal action is being considered. Your attorney could also point out in the letter that falsely accusing someone of committing an illegal act is defamatory (even if, in your described situation, it might not give rise to a lawsuit).

I suggest you spend a little bit of money to buy an hour or two of an attorney’s time to review your options and perhaps to draft and send a more effective cease and desist - and go from there.

Good luck.