College Support Order and Aptitude for College

[stoneycrusty]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
Does anyone have any knowledge of what constitutes an aptitude for college? I have two daughters (twins) who will turn 19 on Tuesday at which time they will become emancipated and child support will terminate. My ex emailed me out of the blue asking if I was going to pay for 1/3 of college. We had never discussed college prior to this and she gave me no details. There is no mention of payment of college expenses in the divorce decree. She has filed a petition for college expenses and we both have an attorney.

Through discovery, my attorney learned that their grade point averages are 2.2 and 2.3 and they rank in the lower twenty-fifth percentile in their class. One received an F in Algebra and one had a D in English among other poor grades. According to these numbers they were only conditionally accepted at the institution they applied to. I have serious concerns about their ability to perform at a college level and am reluctant to agree to any settlement as the opposing attorney has requested. My attorney's position is that if we do go to court there is the risk that I could be ordered to pay they amount that the petitioner requests.

Neither party has saved any amount towards college and both of us have excess consumer debt. Neither of us have much left over after normal monthly expenses to apply toward a college education. I have requested that the hearing be postponed until the financial aid package is received detailing whether or not they qualify for the Federal Pell grant and any student loans they are eligible for. I do not know if this request will be accepted by opposing council.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience in a matter like this and would like to hear opinions.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
Does anyone have any knowledge of what constitutes an aptitude for college? I have two daughters (twins) who will turn 19 on Tuesday at which time they will become emancipated and child support will terminate. My ex emailed me out of the blue asking if I was going to pay for 1/3 of college. We had never discussed college prior to this and she gave me no details. There is no mention of payment of college expenses in the divorce decree. She has filed a petition for college expenses and we both have an attorney.

Through discovery, my attorney learned that their grade point averages are 2.2 and 2.3 and they rank in the lower twenty-fifth percentile in their class. One received an F in Algebra and one had a D in English among other poor grades. According to these numbers they were only conditionally accepted at the institution they applied to. I have serious concerns about their ability to perform at a college level and am reluctant to agree to any settlement as the opposing attorney has requested. My attorney's position is that if we do go to court there is the risk that I could be ordered to pay they amount that the petitioner requests.

Neither party has saved any amount towards college and both of us have excess consumer debt. Neither of us have much left over after normal monthly expenses to apply toward a college education. I have requested that the hearing be postponed until the financial aid package is received detailing whether or not they qualify for the Federal Pell grant and any student loans they are eligible for. I do not know if this request will be accepted by opposing council.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience in a matter like this and would like to hear opinions.

So what do you want for your children? A life of "Would you like paper or plastic?" or perhaps "Do you wish to supersize your order"?

What does 1/3 CC cost? Is your children worth that money?

 

[stoneycrusty]

So what do you want for your children? A life of "Would you like paper or plastic?" or perhaps "Do you wish to supersize your order"?

What does 1/3 CC cost? Is your children worth that money?

I think that if THEY didn't want that kind of life for themselves they would have put more effort into their high school education.

1/3 for me would be $1100.00 per month. Once my lawyer calculated my income and expenses he determined that I am actually in the negative every month and without my wife's income would not be able to meet my financial obligations.

 

[Ohiogal]

So what do you want for your children? A life of "Would you like paper or plastic?" or perhaps "Do you wish to supersize your order"?

What does 1/3 CC cost? Is your children worth that money?

Truthfully I think that is an unfair question because not all parents have money to put towards college expenses, not all parents can get loans to help with college and not all parents are in a position to pay for college. Why can't the children WORK if they really want to go to college? That would make more sense.

 

[stealth2]

No, not every child should go to college. But one would hope that his/her/their parents would know their child's strengths and weaknesses sooner than their 19th birthday and encourage a different path. Why and how is it you are only now finding out their GPA's? That kind of boggles my mind. And how/why is it that you have not apparently encouraged them to follow their strengths in building their futures?

Now, having said that... Some kids just don't do well in HS. My youngest wasn't a stellar HS student. I could give reasons/excuses, but I won't. She's a smart kid, though. And has been flying high in college. No... not a 4.0, but a solid GPA. On top of being a college athlete. She just needed something different. She is enjoying getting an *education*. That is something that will hold her in good stead for a lifetime.

So - what is important to you for your kids?

 

[stealth2]

Truthfully I think that is an unfair question because not all parents have money to put towards college expenses, not all parents can get loans to help with college and not all parents are in a position to pay for college. Why can't the children WORK if they really want to go to college? That would make more sense.

Ya know.... I really don't have the money. Nor are loans an option. Both of my kids work and have scholarships. Every semester is a struggle.

Yes, these girls SHOULD contribute, and it seems Mom is planning on that. But why is Dad only realizing - at 19 - that his girls have academic issues? And apparently only when he's been asked to help with the expense?

 

[stealth2]

WAIT! It's not even OP who found out their GPAs. It was his attorney. So what has Dad been doing for 14 years? (figuring they started school at 5.)

ETA: pretty well all p/x is about $.

 

[commentator]

It is kind of hard in this day and time to say that if these very marginal students do not get to start right into college right now, funded by their parents, their lives will be doom and gloom and lower class, as in "do you want fries with that?" College is not the best route for everyone.

In fact, I have seen several young people who have more degrees than a thermometer who are asking this question and tickled to get even this job, trying to pay back huge high student loans they took out to get these degrees.

I feel it's non-helpful to berate this guy because his daughters have been marginal students. It is entirely possible that they are not good students, have never been good students, and they and mom have just not been concerned and have not shared this with him. And it's hard for us to say that it would have been possible for him to step in if he did know of their academic performance and get them to raise their grades, inspire them with determination, make them scholarship academics. Some people just aren't so inclined, educators are always trying to figure out how to change that.

What he really needs to do is talk with these girls individually at this point, ask them what they perceive as their next step, what they are interested in studying, how serious they are about college, how willing they are to participate in paying for the education, move on with it, and let himself be led and guided by that.

One of the young men in my family didn't know what he wanted to have as his major when quizzed, but he certainly knew what fraternity he wanted to join! He ended up going into the military, and coming out to complete college later with much more maturity.

And that these girls are twins causes me to wonder, do they want to do this college experience as a unit, or do they actually have different interests? We're dealing with two individuals here.

True, lots of kids who are not spectacular students in high school come out and do well in college. But he does need to be actively involved from here on out, whether he is forking out any of the money or not. If his finances are as he depicts, even if he has a court order to pay, they will not get a complete ride, will need to work and seek all sorts of financial assistance to get through. He needs to be very actively involved in this from now on.

 

[stealth2]

It is kind of hard in this day and time to say that if these very marginal students do not get to start right into college right now, funded by their parents, their lives will be doom and gloom and lower class, as in "do you want fries with that?" College is not the best route for everyone.

In fact, I have seen several young people who have more degrees than a thermometer who are asking this question and tickled to get even this job, trying to pay back huge high student loans they took out to get these degrees.

I feel it's non-helpful to berate this guy because his daughters have been marginal students. It is entirely possible that they are not good students, have never been good students, and they and mom have just not been concerned and have not shared this with him. And it's hard for us to say that it would have been possible for him to step in if he did know of their academic performance and get them to raise their grades, inspire them with determination, make them scholarship academics. Some people just aren't so inclined, educators are always trying to figure out how to change that.

What he really needs to do is talk with these girls individually at this point, ask them what they perceive as their next step, what they are interested in studying, how serious they are about college, how willing they are to participate in paying for the education, move on with it, and let himself be led and guided by that.

One of the young men in my family didn't know what he wanted to have as his major when quizzed, but he certainly knew what fraternity he wanted to join! He ended up going into the military, and coming out to complete college later with much more maturity.

And that these girls are twins causes me to wonder, do they want to do this college experience as a unit, or do they actually have different interests? We're dealing with two individuals here.

True, lots of kids who are not spectacular students in high school come out and do well in college. But he does need to be actively involved from here on out, whether he is forking out any of the money or not. If his finances are as he depicts, even if he has a court order to pay, they will not get a complete ride, will need to work and seek all sorts of financial assistance to get through. He needs to be very actively involved in this from now on.

The only thing he should be berated for is apparently being a clueless an disinterested parent - based on his history here and his not knowing how his kids were doing on school until his lawyer found out their grades.

 

[Ohiogal]

Ya know.... I really don't have the money. Nor are loans an option. Both of my kids work and have scholarships. Every semester is a struggle.

Yes, these girls SHOULD contribute, and it seems Mom is planning on that. But why is Dad only realizing - at 19 - that his girls have academic issues? And apparently only when he's been asked to help with the expense?

Probably because parenting for him as always been financial. I am not excusing his lack of knowledge. My issue is no parent should be required to pay for their children to attend college. If they can contribute then YES they should.

 

[stealth2]

Probably because parenting for him as always been financial. I am not excusing his lack of knowledge. My issue is no parent should be required to pay for their children to attend college. If they can contribute then YES they should.

My ex is ordered to (at HIS request). He pays $5k/yr for one, $0 for the other. I am livid that he thinks he gets to take #1 out right after graduation. #1 has told him that I, his sister and his grandparents are taking him & friends out after, but he will be available for drinks. And ya know? I deserve it.

 

[Proserpina]

Many CPs who come here to ask how they can get the NCP to contribute to the college fund have often been ripped apart (kid can get scholarships, work, get loans themselves).

This NCP is asking if has to contribute, specially since at least on the surface the twins aren't exactly showing an aptitude for that whole learning thing.

Is it a case of NCP being penalized via his wallet for past actions (or inaction)?

 

[Just Blue]

Many CPs who come here to ask how they can get the NCP to contribute to the college fund have often been ripped apart (kid can get scholarships, work, get loans themselves).

This NCP is asking if has to contribute, specially since at least on the surface the twins aren't exactly showing an aptitude for that whole learning thing.

Is it a case of NCP being penalized via his wallet for past actions (or inaction)?

Yup..a bit. OP allowed his children to fail in school by his/her inaction. And now is looking for a way to have these children fail in life.

I can/could not afford to send my girls to University. But I damn sure can do ALL THAT I CAN do for my kids to get an higher education.

Now IF, as a parent, I do what I can and yet said child fails...that is on her/him. I don't disagree with any member that has posted.

 

[stoneycrusty]

Ya know.... I really don't have the money. Nor are loans an option. Both of my kids work and have scholarships. Every semester is a struggle.

Yes, these girls SHOULD contribute, and it seems Mom is planning on that. But why is Dad only realizing - at 19 - that his girls have academic issues? And apparently only when he's been asked to help with the expense?

I have known in the past that they were struggling in certain classes. I did ask them what the problem was and did lecture them about their grades and putting forth some extra effort. Getting any kind of definitive response from them was like pulling teeth. I even suggested that maybe they should spend a little less time with dance (which was extensive) and spend a little more time on their schoolwork. I never did actually request copies of their grades which in retrospect does show some "disinterest" on my part.

However, no I did not realize that there were struggling as much as they obviously were.

 

[stoneycrusty]

What he really needs to do is talk with these girls individually at this point, ask them what they perceive as their next step, what they are interested in studying, how serious they are about college, how willing they are to participate in paying for the education, move on with it, and let himself be led and guided by that.

I did sit them down and talk to them about this on the last date that they came for visitation which was over a year ago. At that time we did not discuss grades but did discuss the fact that there was no way I could afford their first choice of colleges. I did make them the offer that they could come stay with me free of room and board and I would help them with personal expenses if they were interested in attending a branch campus near me and they would pay for their college expenses. They have not come to see me since that date even though I have asked them to several times. I have gone to see them (about an hour between homes) on four different occasions but there seems to be no interest in reciprocation on their part.