Condensed Version!!! Overcharged Rent

[valnyc]

Astoria, NY

I rent a room in a shared apt. Rent was meant to be divided equally. That was repeated several times before and after I moved in: everyone pays the same. My roommate has been seriously overcharging me. She is the lease holder of the apt. but not the owner of the property. I have asked her nicely numerous times but she does not admit it nor deny it. She knows what she had done is wrong though. The difference is of at least $1000 in her pocket which I find obscene. The landlord did not know about this either. I want the tramp out before she takes anything else. The landlord just wants his rent.

My question is: 1) what should we do? We, the two roommates who have been ripped off, want to stay and want the other two tramps to go. 2) Is what the roommate and leaseholder done illegal? (I can only think so!) 3) Could I pursue reimbursements in court? 4) Don´t I have the legal right to know how much the lease is or see a copy of the lease as a tenant? 5) Does the landlord have the legal right not to tell me how much the rent is? (I am a tenant, after all) 6) What are my options? 7) What sort of legal action could I take against her?

I don´t really want to go ahead with it, I just want her out. She´s a recent holder of a Greencard and her friend an illegal foreigner so I don´t think they´re interested in trouble.

Urgent help is much appreciated!
Ripped Off New Yorker

 

[justalayman]

let's make this easier.

why is the other girl the only person on the lease?

What is the actual dollar amount you agreed to pay for rent, and not "we will split the rent" but what dollar amount did you agree to pay and who was the agreement with?


how long, if at all, did the person on the lease live there prior to you moving in?

Oh, and since she is on the lease and you aren't, if anybody goes, it's going to be you. She is bound by that contract and unless she violates some part of the lease, the LL cannot evict her.

 

[valnyc]

let's make this easier.

why is the other girl the only person on the lease?
She rented the apt in Aug 2010, I moved in in Dec 2010. She didnt want me on the lease, obviously.

What is the actual dollar amount you agreed to pay for rent, and not "we will split the rent" but what dollar amount did you agree to pay and who was the agreement with?
I agreed with her to pay $800 for my room based on the fact that the apt has 4 rooms, some bigger, some smaller. Mine is the 2nd biggest. Allegedly the rent of each room is 900, 800, 600 and 450. That would be splitting the rent according to sq feet and fairly. I agreed and so did my roommate.
Problem is, she never paid 900 for her room and her friend never paid 600 for her room either. On top of that, she sublet her room for 800. Do the math.

how long, if at all, did the person on the lease live there prior to you moving in?
3 months.

Oh, and since she is on the lease and you aren't, if anybody goes, it's going to be you. She is bound by that contract and unless she violates some part of the lease, the LL cannot evict her.
1- There is a signed lease, that´s what the LL told me. There´s a signed agreement. There was a lease but she made a last minute change and he didnt sign it and give her a copy. It´s all verbal. 2. She could not sublet (anyway lease isnt signed).

NEXT?

 

[valnyc]

I forgot, most importantly, the rent is 1.600.

 

[justalayman]

ok, since you didn't even move in at the same time, you are simply her tenant (a subtenant)

I agreed with her to pay $800

that is all that matters. Your rent is $800 regardless of what she pays for the entire unit to her LL. Her rent could be free but she could still charge you $800, unless there is some rent control that wouldn't allow it.

1- There is a signed lease, that´s what the LL told me. There´s a signed agreement. There was a lease but she made a last minute change and he didnt sign it and give her a copy. It´s all verbal.

verbal or written is irrelevant for most purpose but it appears the LL has accepted their is some lease or rental agreement between himself and the girl.

2. She could not sublet (anyway lease isnt signed).

why not? it doesn't appear her LL has a problem with her subleasing to you.

Unless the LL is willing to evict this girl, and that is presuming there is no written lease), it is her apartment and you rent from her. You have no right to demand she leave. You have no right to demand the rent be shared equally or anything else. You agreed to what you agreed to.

 

[valnyc]

Thanks for your answers. Just a few more. I must admit I am shocked. I can´t believe an illegal foreigner can rip me off that easy.

ok, since you didn't even move in at the same time, you are simply her tenant (a subtenant)
There are 4 roommates: two are in the "scamming" (which is how I see this making money on top of others, first time for me). True, I didn´t move in at the same time but the other "scammed" roommate did and she is very upset. Would that make any difference? We both would like the scammers to leave

Quote:
I agreed with her to pay $800
that is all that matters. Your rent is $800 regardless of what she pays for the entire unit to her LL. Her rent could be free but she could still charge you $800, unless there is some rent control that wouldn't allow it.
Okay. That´s the moral issue. Nothing illegal happened then, just a tramp who says she´s sharing the rent equally when instead she´s making money on top of you. Had I known, obviously, I wouldn´t have rented the room.

Quote:
1- There isnt a signed lease, that´s what the LL told me. There isnt even a signed agreement. There was a lease but she made a last minute change and he didnt sign it and give her a copy. It´s all verbal.
verbal or written is irrelevant for most purpose but it appears the LL has accepted their is some lease or rental agreement between himself and the girl.
Yes, there is a verbal agreement and there is a lease most likely filled out to some extent however never signed by the LL.

Quote:
2. She could not sublet (anyway lease isnt signed).
why not? it doesn't appear her LL has a problem with her subleasing to you.
I mean, the LL gave the lease to her and it was meant to be a residential apt for 3 people. She made a last minute change for 4 people - he thought it was too many and in the end he didn´t sign it. I´m not subletting. I´m a tenant, am I not? That´s what´s confusing in my mind. But I think I´m getting it now. Anyway, she´s done more than a sublet. She rented her room while she was here and, once, rented her room to someone who in turn rented the room for a week. That´s what the LL isnt happy with.

Unless the LL is willing to evict this girl, and that is presuming there is no written lease), it is her apartment and you rent from her. You have no right to demand she leave. You have no right to demand the rent be shared equally or anything else. You agreed to what you agreed to.
I see. What about the fact that she lied? She lied to both of us. If she had said that from the beginning, fine, but she didn´t. I dont want to kick her out. I want her to leave due to the embarrassment. And she should be embarrassed. What do you suggest?

 

[Gail in Georgia]

"I don't want to kick her out. I want her to leave due to the embarrassment. And she should be embarrassed. What do you suggest".

Find another place to live, provide adequate notice and move out if you disagree with the amount of rent you initially agreed to pay.

Gail

 

[valnyc]

RE: Condensed Version!!! Overcharged Rent Last Question!!

Hello,
Thank you for the answers but I am very surprised that he only advice I get is "move out" when this person has lied to me. I guess you are just being very practical and straight to the point. Okay, maybe what I have to understand is that lying isn´t illegal (to some extent) and that she hasn´t done anything illegal, although morally wrong.

But I had asked this question last night and I would appreciate if it could be answered:

justalayman: ok, since you didn't even move in at the same time, you are simply her tenant (a subtenant)

valnyc: There are 4 roommates: two are in the "scamming". I didn´t move in at the same time but the other "scammed" roommate did and she is very upset and wants them out, too, or at least do something about this situation. My question is: Would it make any difference if I had rented the room when she rented the apt, and moved into the apt together, while she´s telling me that the rent is shared equally? That´s not my case but it is my roommates case. I´m asking on her behalf (or it´s a hypothetical question).

I guess that´s my last question. Thank you for your support.

 

[CreativeBlock]

My question is: Would it make any difference if I had rented the room when she rented the apt, and moved into the apt together, while she´s telling me that the rent is shared equally? That´s not my case but it is my roommates case. I´m asking on her behalf (or it´s a hypothetical question).

If you or your roommate had signed the lease before the other woman did? Then, yes, that would make a difference. Otherwise, no.

 

[justalayman]

I think I might have mislead you about the timing of the lease signing. What I was trying to determine was if there was anyway you were a co-tenant of the person that I see as your landlord rather than her tenant.

So, based on your statements:

1. There is a single person (primary tenant) with a lease to rent the entire apartment from "the" LL.

2. There are 3 subtenants. Their LL is the person listed as primary tenant in #1.

As such, primary tenant has a contract (albeit apparently verbal) with you and other (sub)tenants with each of you owing a specified and agreed to amount due her (primary tenant) each month.

Primary tenant's lease has nothing to do with you. If primary tenants LL has a problem with primary tenant, then he deals with primary tenant.

Until the lease/rental agreement between primary tenant and "the" LL ends, you are simply a subtenant and have no right to demand primary tenant be removed from the premises. As well, you have no right to demand to contract with "the" LL until the current lease/rental agreement between primary tenant and "the" landlord has ended.

So, if you are not happy, your option is to live with it or find lodging elsewhere.

 

[valnyc]

RE: Condensed Version!!! Overcharged Rent Last Question!!

justalayman:
That´s exactly what has happened, that is exactly the situation. You couldnt have said it better. As you can see I´m not good at explaining myself and am far from being an attorney. It´s crystal clear. If I may, one last (truly last) question:
In that case, as the primary tenant with a contract (albeit apparently verbal), she has the right to ask me to leave, as long as she gives me a 30 days notice. Am I correct? I couldn´t fight that, could I? I coudn´t stay longer than the 30 day notice.

I never thought this forum would have been of so much help. Thank you so much everyone. Thank you justalayman. You were all great and have cleared all my doubts. I will definitely recommend you to all my friends and acquaintances.
Best,
valnyc

 

[justalayman]

I am not positive it is 30 days but it quite likely is. Be cautious though. I believe in NYC it is an actual calender 30 days. Not sure if that is the same in the rest of NY or if the state requires 1 month being 1 rental period.

The difference is: with the 30 calender days, if notice is given on a date such as the 17th, the 30 days would run from that time until the 17th of the following month. If one month/rental period, it would be from whenever rent is due (typically the first of the month) until the end of that month. That would mean if you gave notice on the 17th, the 1 month rental period would actually be the end of the following month (notice on Jan 17th. Lease is terminated Feb 28th as an example.


If you were given proper notice, if you stay beyond the notice period, you are considered a hold over tenant and subject to legal action to have you removed. The LL does not have the right to actually remove you or lock you out without a court order.

 

[Banned_Princess]

justalayman:
That´s exactly what has happened, that is exactly the situation. You couldnt have said it better. As you can see I´m not good at explaining myself and am far from being an attorney. It´s crystal clear. If I may, one last (truly last) question:
In that case, as the primary tenant with a contract (albeit apparently verbal), she has the right to ask me to leave, as long as she gives me a 30 days notice. Am I correct? I couldn´t fight that, could I? I coudn´t stay longer than the 30 day notice.

I never thought this forum would have been of so much help. Thank you so much everyone. Thank you justalayman. You were all great and have cleared all my doubts. I will definitely recommend you to all my friends and acquaintances.
Best,
valnyc

In NY if you are current with your rent. notice of vacating the appartment has to be in writing and it has to be a 30 day notice, and you have to have been served before the rent is due on the move out period. (like if your rent is due on the first, the latest you can be notified the LL to move out (or for you to tell the ll you will be out) is jan 31 to be out March 1st.

If you do not move out, the LL (the girl you are renting from) can start a court case for eviction baised on staying over. She has no power to lock you out, or put your stuff outside or anything like that. only a judge can order your stuff to be tossed out.

 

[valnyc]

Thanks, Banned_Princess.
Is email valid and legal as written notice of vacating?

(It still shocks me that the LL (the girl I am renting the apt from) and prime tenant is running a rooming house type situation, without having informed me previously, and I am the one suffering all the damage.)

 

[Gail in Georgia]

Steps to terminating a month to month tenancy in New York (both in the city of New York and outside this area):

TenantNet :: View topic - Month-to-Month Tenants in NY

Gail