Contempt and motions in return

[norm9838]

What is the name of your state? Indiana
I filed contempt charges against the mother of my child and was suppose to go to court last Friday.

From the time we split up (Dec 1998) until October of this year her mother and I had tried to compromise and do what was in everyones best interest when it came to holidays. I tried to be flexible thinking it would be best for our child. Then all of the sudden I started to get cut out more and more. So finally I said enough and told her that I intended on exercising my rights according to our paperwork.

First she started cutting me out of my Thursdays and then Thanksgiving came and I was told point blank by her and my daughter both that she would be spending Thanksgiving with mom. I told her point blank that it was my holiday and then I wanted my daughter and her response was to tell me that she had plans and would not be there.

So Thanksgiving passed and then approached Christmas. I bought a tape recorder and decided that I was not putting up with this again and if I needed it I would have proof and boy did she let it all hang out. Two separate times.

I hired an attorney and he told me to file contempt charges for Thanksgiving. So I did. Then at the end of Jan she called and said oops I claimed our daughter on me and hubby taxes. So I got rejected efiling. I turned around and filed them on paper and sent my papers with them. I got the exemption. So now i figure they will go after her.

She told me just last week that I could go ahead and file my taxes as if I had listened to her, Then she wanted to know if I claimed our daughter as I was entitled too. I said yes I did and already got my money. She said huh, maybe it doesn't matter.

Anyway she went that Saturday and hired an attorney and filed motions back at me.

It said I had violated the visitation order in refusing to allow her access to our daughter on all of the past 4th of July except 1999. In the paperwork she was to get the even years and I was to get the 4th on the odds. Then explain why did she have her in 99 and I did not pick my daughter up for summer visitation last year until the 5th so that she could spend it with her mother. So if she is stating she did not have on the 4th after 1999 and she had her last year. Isn't that perjury? You sign the papers and attest that they are true.

She also said that I had denied her Easter in the past years. How could I have denied her Easter weekend visitation when I pick my daughter up at her moms?

She said she never had her on Mothers Day. She never came and got her or asked for her.
When I asked her a couple of times if she wanted her, her response was well I always have her on fathers day so who cares.

They said I violated the order by not picking up my child after school. Would that be when her mom or stepdad picks her up and drives her home? Or would it be when she rides the bus to a relatives house of her stepdad's so that the school does not know that she lives outside of the school district she goes to?

It also states that I am further disruptive in the visitation and I take action and makes statements to erode the relationship between her mother and her.

Lets see I don't call her ******* while my daughters on the phone like she does me. I don't say to my daughter, well now I know where you get your problem from. You don't hear me saying in the background, why don't he grow up and let you grow up? Or the my favorite if he wants to play games so can I.

I don't say to my daughter (like you love them so much) making reference to her and her husband. Neither I nor my fiancee have ever put our hands on my daughter. The only thing we have ever done is make her sit and listen to what we have to say about how she is to treat people with respect. In fact she told me once she hit her mother and I said I don't ever want to hear you say you hit your mom.

Then she also says I say I am coming to get my daughter and then I do not show up. Well after Thanksgiving I told her and her mother both. I do not care if you have plans or night I am coming to get you. If your mother takes you and leaves then I will go to the police station and have it documented. I do not want to do these things but I am going to enforce my visitation time.

Plus she wants me to pay her attorney fees. As far as her conduct I have her on tape making all the statements that I stated earlier. I also have her on tape refusing me.

So do you think that I might have a chance of winning. Her attorney wants to meet with me and my attorney and her. What do you think her attorney will think when he hears the tapes?

 

[Ohiogal]

Ask your attorney who has listened to the tapes.

 

[Zephyr]

were the recordings done legally?

 

[norm9838]

Yes the recordings were done legally. I started out telling my daughter to put her mother on the phone because I was telling her that I was going to come get my daughter for my scheduled visitation.

I was to have her according to our papers from the 26 through the 1st after Christmas. The first thing out of her mothers mouth was no I dont think so. I said yes this is what our papers said and then she went on and on.

Finally after she realized that I was not going to give up or back down she told our daughter, she said here you talk to him, now I know where you get your problems from.

That is when I told my daughter that was what our papers said and that I was going to come and get her and the whole time her mother is in the background badmouthing me.

Plus Indiana is a one party state. I knew as usual that she would not keep her cool and after the Thanksgiving deal I made up my mind that enough was enough.

I also got tired of her comparing our situation with that of her new husband. He can not even have his son unless it is supervised.

I am expected to put up with my daughter coming to my home and thinking that she will set the rules here according to what they are there,

She even told me that she can not walk her dog by herself, her step dad told her so.

Our dog is 13 and my daughter will be on the 20th. That dog would die for her and he has been in her life for one year and he thinks he is going to make up the rules in my home.

I have always been there for my daughter and one day she will realize this. I have nuture her and tried to make her a kind and decent person.

Not one who thinks everyone is out to get them. Or to be prejudice to anyone that is not like her. I did not come from the big city, I can trust my neighbors. I do not push my opinions onto her as if my life depended on it. I did not tell her to disown her own grandmother because she did not like the person in my life.

Instead I tell her to base how she feels about other people on what she thinks of them and how they treat her. I tell her to respect people. I also tell her that respect is not something freely given but it has to be earned.

Right or wrong I love my child and I want her to be happy and to be glad she is alive. Not look at me and tell me that she wants to shut herself in a room and for people to leave her alone. She was not this way a year ago.

All I know is that everything her mother is accusing me of is what she is doing to me. I had my daughter two holidays last year.

So where is the justice. If a psycologist was to examine her they would say that she is depressed and I can tell you anymore I do not know if she knows the difference between the truth and a lie.

She would sell her soul if she thought it would get her what she wanted and the sad part is she had a good teacher.

Me, grow up, I am not the one that needs to grow up and realize that in this world it is not just me, myself and I.

When it comes right down to it in order for her mother to be right or win she would sacrifice her own child.

If I thought for one minute that in the best interest of my child it would be better for me to vacate I would. I would give up the most precious thing to me if it would mean her happiness.

So in answer to your question, yes it was legal. Plus to in answer to the question what does my lawyer think? I think I would of been better representing myself but judges like it better when you have the man or the woman. For the most part if you do not have a lawyer your not worth listening to.

So I will probably loose because I do not feel my lawyer even has a clue to the hell that I go through. So be it maybe if I am lucky my daughter will wake up when she is older and can make her own decisions based on what she thinks and not what somebody is telling her.

 

[LdiJ]

To be honest, at least on the holidays, I am not sure that you are going to get very far with contempt. It sounds like neither one of you have been necessarily following the guidelines regarding holidays, and that both of you have had the child on dates that were the other one's holiday.

The fact that you let it go on for so long makes you a participant in the lack of following the guidelines, and most likely the judge is going to be somewhat irritated with both of you.

What is most likely to happen at this point is that the judge will order you to follow the guidelines, strictly. Then you need to do that. If mom doesn't cooperate then you take her back to court again.....but only if you have followed them strictly.

Therefore, if a weekend is normally your weekend, but its mom's holiday, you DO NOT pick up the child.

 

[Ohiogal]

If you feel taht way about your attorney then you may need a new attorney. HOWEVER, if your ex is not neglectful and does not abuse your daughter and is not unfit, you may find a hard road to get custody. Some of the stuff you mention is nothing more than differences in parenting style.

 

[CJane]

Wow. Those are some seriously long posts.

Dude, you're describing a normal teenage girl - at least, every one I've ever known. They hate their parents, especially if they perceive the parent as being an infringement on their social life. They're usually depressed some of the time because being a teenager sucks. They tend to be judgemental because they're insecure.

I seem to recall you posting about the Thanksgiving issue previously, and never answering the question of whether or not you actually showed up to pick up the child, or just took mom's no for an answer. Did you answer and I missed it, or did you not actually go there? That'll matter in court.

As for everything else, you have a court order for a reason. Follow it.

 

[norm9838]

Yes, I agree that both of us did not go according to the paperwork when it came to our holiday schedule. But if you read the Indiana Guidelines it states that it is in the best interest for the child or children if the parents can work together.

My attorney explained to me when we drew the paperwork up that even though we agreed to it that we did not have to follow it if we could agree to compromise.

My attorney and her attorney also told us both that if we could not agree to compromise,
then we would have to go according to our schedule that the court agreed to.

So now that’s where I am. Like I said back in October I told her and my daughter that there was no longer any compromising and that it was time to put our paperwork in force. Well I guess she thought I was just kidding her or maybe she thought it was a bluff.

When I called about Thanksgiving I did so because mom sent our daughter with the message to convey it to me however she wanted to. It has been this way for almost a year now, everything comes through my daughter. Her husband pretty much told me that I did not need to speak to his wife if I have questions concerning my daughter I am to talk to him.

So I guess Thanksgiving was the last straw.

I want the judge to say that from this day forward we will observe our agreed upon paperwork. I also want it explained to her in detail just exactly what that paperwork says and that we have two sets of papers. One paper addresses summer and regular visitation, tax exemptions, insurance etc. The other paper is an addendum to the first that addresses holidays.

I want him to say to us both that if we refuse each other our rights as they are stated on those papers that the other person will be able to seek remedy in court.

I want the judge to realize that her accusations of me making statement about her is false, that in fact she is the one who is making statements in front of our daughter against my character and that is what is causing my daughter to question her relationship with me. Also to I want it known that she intentionally encourages my daughter to act out when she is with me. Hoping for what I don’t know? Maybe that I will get so tired of it that I will not want to have her. I think not. I love her through the good or bad.

I also would like the judge to make an order for my daughter to go to counseling. If he thinks it is in our best interest that her mother and I go too then so be it. But I will have to say that I feel that my daughter at this time needs help.

She seems to thrive on getting people in trouble at every opportunity. It is nothing for her to watch television and laugh if she thinks someone is being hurtful to someone else. She also has a very bad problem with lying.

She can pay her attorney fees and I have already paid my own.

But I want the judge to be adamant about the visitation schedule.

The only reason I went this far was so we could appear in front of the judge because I feel if we don’t she will not listen. She may still not but he will know and she will know that he had told us both

No I am you do not understand I am not discribing a normal teenage child.

She has been told I can be replaced and now because I will not let he set her own rules and treat everyone however she wants to she more or less tells me in her own way she hates me. That is not normal. I never hated my parents

 

[CJane]

So now that’s where I am. Like I said back in October I told her and my daughter that there was no longer any compromising and that it was time to put our paperwork in force. Well I guess she thought I was just kidding her or maybe she thought it was a bluff.

And you NEVER should have had that conversation with your daughter. The PARENTS are supposed to work together and negotiate if they're capable of being grown-ups about the whole thing, not the parent and the CHILD.

When I called about Thanksgiving I did so because mom sent our daughter with the message to convey it to me however she wanted to. It has been this way for almost a year now, everything comes through my daughter. Her husband pretty much told me that I did not need to speak to his wife if I have questions concerning my daughter I am to talk to him.

So I guess Thanksgiving was the last straw.

And DID YOU ACTUALLY ATTEMPT TO GET THE CHILD ON THANKSGIVING? Your continual avoidance of answering this question makes me think that No, you did not. If you did not attempt to get the child and mom is not ordered to bring you the child, then she's NOT in contempt because she didn't deny you anything.

I want the judge to say that from this day forward we will observe our agreed upon paperwork. I also want it explained to her in detail just exactly what that paperwork says and that we have two sets of papers. One paper addresses summer and regular visitation, tax exemptions, insurance etc. The other paper is an addendum to the first that addresses holidays.

I want him to say to us both that if we refuse each other our rights as they are stated on those papers that the other person will be able to seek remedy in court.

I want the judge to realize that her accusations of me making statement about her is false, that in fact she is the one who is making statements in front of our daughter against my character and that is what is causing my daughter to question her relationship with me. Also to I want it known that she intentionally encourages my daughter to act out when she is with me. Hoping for what I don’t know? Maybe that I will get so tired of it that I will not want to have her. I think not. I love her through the good or bad.

It's really not the judge's job to play daddy to you two. The chances of him 'telling' anyone anything are pretty slim. I just went through a 9 hour trial a week or so ago. The judge said maybe 5 words the whole time other than "Sustained" or "Overruled". He's not gonna 'explain' anything to anyone.

Can you prove she's encouraging the child to act out? I think not.

I also would like the judge to make an order for my daughter to go to counseling. If he thinks it is in our best interest that her mother and I go too then so be it. But I will have to say that I feel that my daughter at this time needs help.

Do you have documentation that she's in need of counseling? Statements from teachers, or anything of the sort? Have you taken her to a physician to be assessed for depression? You don't need to take her to a shrink for that if she's truly depressed.

She seems to thrive on getting people in trouble at every opportunity. It is nothing for her to watch television and laugh if she thinks someone is being hurtful to someone else. She also has a very bad problem with lying.

So? I think Heathers is a GREAT movie and it's all about being evil teenagers. Doesn't make me mentally ill. And I LOVED getting my sisters in trouble when I was a teenager.

But I want the judge to be adamant about the visitation schedule.

Not the judge's job. He/she's already signed it. YOU TWO are supposed to be the ones adhering to it without the judge holding your hands.

No I am you do not understand I am not discribing a normal teenage child.

She has been told I can be replaced and now because I will not let he set her own rules and treat everyone however she wants to she more or less tells me in her own way she hates me. That is not normal. I never hated my parents

You weren't a teenage girl, were you?

I have yet to meet any female who can't very honestly say that during her teenage years she thought her parents were stupid, hateful and mean.

 

[stealth2]

So both of you put the daughter in the middle. Beautiful. Hope you're both proud of yourselves.

 

[norm9838]

No I did not put my daughter in the middle.

I told her mother that we were to discuss the situation that it was not to go through our daughter. Let me ask you this though, if your child asked you about sex or drugs and they were old enough to understand would you answer their questions. When I said to my daughter I will getting you on Thanksgiving right my intention was to tell her of the plans we had to go to her grandmothers on Thanksgiving and that we were spending Sunday with her grandpa. I did not know that she was going to tell me that she was not going to be here.

I want that to cease. But I can not control what goes on at the other end. Just like I can not control the fact that my daughter needs help with her homework and refuses to bring it here.

I know that her mother and I have different parenting ideas but I thought it would be best it we tried to work together. The only one that is going to get hurt by this is our daughter.
Apparently being in control is more important to her mother than the well being of our daughter.

As for your question about wether it went to pick her on or not. My papers state that I am to pick her up on Wednesday night before Thanksgiving and yes I went to their house. No one was at home. I stayed in the town they live in for about two hours and returned to still find an empty house.

I called the next morning on Thanksgiving and did not get an answer.

So let me ask you this, since she was not there both times to tell me no does that mean I was refused? In my eyes it is. It is not as if she lives around the corner. I also left messages on their answer machine. There was no call back.

I did not say anything to my daughter at Christmas about not having heron Thanksgiving instead I went and hired an attorney and during the whole time she was with me I did not discuss it with her. She started to ask me what was going on and why I was not taking her home on Wednesday since her mother told me that was when I was to bring her back. The only thing I told her was that I was to have her till 7pm on the 1st and then her mom was to get her.

When I received my papers from my attorney where she accused me of taking actions and making statements to erode her relationship between her and our child I did not say to my daughter ok what kind of lies are you telling now.

Do I have proof that her mother is instigating her to act up. Well I guess that is all in the way a person interput what people. I have her mother on tape saying, You are almost 13 years old now and you can make your own decisions you do not have to listen to him.

So when my daughter looks at me and says I don't have to listen to you my mom told me so, thats not instigating. I use to tell my daughter that she should listen to her mom and show her respect.

Or when I asked her why she did not bring her homework here so I could help her with the questions she has wrong, she replies by telling me that her mom said if I have a problem with it to take it up with her. She gets failing grades on all of her homework.

So I did, I called her mom and she told me it was none of my business and she did not need me to help our daughter with her homework.

So its like hitting a brick wall.

In truth I will have to say just about like trying to get some sound advice on this forum with out the snide remarks.

You people need to realize that a large portion of the people coming on here to ask questions are not lawyers, if they were they would not be here asking questions.
Maybe they do not always sound like intelligent questions. But I was always told there is no such thing as a dumb question, just a dumb answer.

 

[stealth2]

Dude - you so need to learn how to be concise.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I muddled through this entire thread and to tell you the truth, there are three children here...and I'm not sure the daughter isn't the most adult of the group.

Since you never asked a legitimate legal question I'll answer my own.

The both of you need to grow up. And if one or the other won't then the remaining parent needs to.

Motions, claims, threats and all the other crap the two of you are playing is normal bs in a custody, visitation court proceeding. However, I will answer the only question answered:

There is no way anyone, not even your own attorney, can tell you what chance you have of winning, the possibility of winning or anything else about the outcome of your case.

Simply put, you both should be relieved of the burden of raising the child.

 

[LdiJ]

No I did not put my daughter in the middle.

I told her mother that we were to discuss the situation that it was not to go through our daughter. Let me ask you this though, if your child asked you about sex or drugs and they were old enough to understand would you answer their questions. When I said to my daughter I will getting you on Thanksgiving right my intention was to tell her of the plans we had to go to her grandmothers on Thanksgiving and that we were spending Sunday with her grandpa. I did not know that she was going to tell me that she was not going to be here.

I want that to cease. But I can not control what goes on at the other end. Just like I can not control the fact that my daughter needs help with her homework and refuses to bring it here.

I know that her mother and I have different parenting ideas but I thought it would be best it we tried to work together. The only one that is going to get hurt by this is our daughter.
Apparently being in control is more important to her mother than the well being of our daughter.

As for your question about wether it went to pick her on or not. My papers state that I am to pick her up on Wednesday night before Thanksgiving and yes I went to their house. No one was at home. I stayed in the town they live in for about two hours and returned to still find an empty house.

I called the next morning on Thanksgiving and did not get an answer.

So let me ask you this, since she was not there both times to tell me no does that mean I was refused? In my eyes it is. It is not as if she lives around the corner. I also left messages on their answer machine. There was no call back.

I did not say anything to my daughter at Christmas about not having heron Thanksgiving instead I went and hired an attorney and during the whole time she was with me I did not discuss it with her. She started to ask me what was going on and why I was not taking her home on Wednesday since her mother told me that was when I was to bring her back. The only thing I told her was that I was to have her till 7pm on the 1st and then her mom was to get her.

When I received my papers from my attorney where she accused me of taking actions and making statements to erode her relationship between her and our child I did not say to my daughter ok what kind of lies are you telling now.

Do I have proof that her mother is instigating her to act up. Well I guess that is all in the way a person interput what people. I have her mother on tape saying, You are almost 13 years old now and you can make your own decisions you do not have to listen to him.

So when my daughter looks at me and says I don't have to listen to you my mom told me so, thats not instigating. I use to tell my daughter that she should listen to her mom and show her respect.

Or when I asked her why she did not bring her homework here so I could help her with the questions she has wrong, she replies by telling me that her mom said if I have a problem with it to take it up with her. She gets failing grades on all of her homework.

So I did, I called her mom and she told me it was none of my business and she did not need me to help our daughter with her homework.

So its like hitting a brick wall.

In truth I will have to say just about like trying to get some sound advice on this forum with out the snide remarks.

You people need to realize that a large portion of the people coming on here to ask questions are not lawyers, if they were they would not be here asking questions.
Maybe they do not always sound like intelligent questions. But I was always told there is no such thing as a dumb question, just a dumb answer.

Like I said, the odds are that the judge is going to be irritated with both of you.

However, an Indiana judge most likely will then order you to follow the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines, and will expect you to adhere to them.

If you don't have a copy, here's a link:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/rules/parenting/#index

 

[norm9838]

Ok, you want to give me some sound legal advice. I went with my fiancee shopping today for my daughter a dress to wear to church. We went to a couple of shops and then we stopped for a bite to eat.

My daughter had suggested that instead of getting a dress today she just wear a skirt and top she has. My fiancee said thats fine but I would like to buy you a new dress for Easter Sunday. Never guess what popped out of my daughters mouth. I won't be with you on Easter I will be at my moms.

On the papers it states from Friday at 7 p.m. till Sunday at 7. Then she said I won't be with you on my birthday either. It states on our papers that the child or children will spend that day with what ever parent they are with according to the parenting schedule. Which this year is on my regular scheduled day.

Now I know what I have to do as far as I have to be there at 7pm on the Friday before Easter and I have to be there to pick her up on her birthday for my regular scheduled weekend.

But here are my questions.

1. How do I document it if her mother refuses me on the Friday before Easter. Do I take a video camera with me? Try to get the police? Then too what if like before and she is not there?

2. Should I call my lawyer on Monday and tell him it is her intention to refuse me?

I really would like some sound answers, please, and by the way I did not respond to my daughter when she said those things. I just looked at her and said I am not discussing things with you that I will discuss with your mother.

So did I handle myself ok. Also I have no intention of calling her mother unless you think a conversation taped between her and I will help my case more. I was ready to just settled but I am so sick of this! I am really trying to be the adult here but I do not want to be the patsy either. Surely her lawyer explained to her the papers she has.

Do you think an attorney would actually advice their client to go against the papers now after this is all going on? Its not like she can say now well I didn't know about the papers. I sent her a copy of our paperwork back in the first of Novemeber of last year and I sent it certified and she had to sign for it, so she can not say she does not have the papers