Contractor Asking for Outrageous Balance Beyond Scope of Contract - Threatening Lein

[sundevil98]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I hired a contractor to do some work on a bathroom in a rental house that I own in Michigan. Unfortunately, I live in Texas, so have only been able to communicate with the contractor by phone. I have a written contract that details (to an extent) the work that was to be done. I can post the contract if anyone wants to see it.

The basic scope of work was to tear out an existing bathtub and shower liner, tear out the bath walls and replace them with a new tub and tiled walls, put in a new floor, and put the existing toilet and sink back in after the new floor was put down.

Anyway, during the first day the contractor was in the house, he called me and told me that there was some additional work that he had to do as there was some water damage behind the walls. He claimed that he needed to replace the studs in the wall. I asked him what the additional cost was going to be, and he said it would be "a couple hundred dollars." I said that was fine, and asked him to continue with the work.

The terms of the contract stated that $4,000 was due up front. A balance of $2,100 was due at the completion of the project.

When the contractor was finished, he sent me a text message stating that I owed $4,200. I was obviously shocked as this was $2100 more than was written into the contract and much more than "a couple hundred dollars" for the extra work that we agreed to. He had no explanation of what work was done. In order to close out my conditions of the contract, I sent $2,400 to the contractor via Postal Money Orders. This included the $300 for the sub-floor and $2100 for the final payment. He received the money, and sent me a text message to ask me where the other "$2000 was?".

I called him back. When I asked him how he came up with $2100 in extra work, he said that he had to 1) Replace the entire sub floor, 2) Replace the studs in the wall, 3) Snake the drain line for the bathtub, 4) Replace some O-rings on a toilet valve, and 5) Re-route the new drain from the new tub. He said that the entire sub floor needed to be replaced and that alone was $1000. I explained to him that written into the contract was that if the entire sub-floor needed to be replaced, there would be an additional $300 charge. At this point, he started to back pedal, and said there was still $2000 worth of work in the other work he performed. I asked him to send me an itemized list of the work he did so that I could look it over. After we spoke on the phone, he sent me a text message stating "I just had a talk with my wife and I do feel bad this is what ill do for u if u can pay $1100 in one payment ill eat half the labor that's the best I can come up with for u."

Two days later, he sent another text message to see if I received his message about the discount. I replied that I did, and that I was still waiting for his itemized list of labor and materials. I then sent him an email, asking for the same... I also asked for pictures showing that he replaced the studs in the wall, and asked for receipts for the materials he had to purchase. He replied the next day with nothing more than a poorly written description of the work that he did.

Before he started the work, he knew that there was quite a bit of water leaking through the walls and into the basement. In the contract, is the following, "Expense incurred because of unusual or unanticipated conditions will be paid for by the Owner." In my opinion, the soggy studs that he encountered in the wall should not have been unanticipated, although, I'm willing to pay a reasonable fee for the replacement of these studs. However, I'm yet to be convinced that he performed $2000 in work (let alone $1100)

This morning he sent me an email stating the following (this is the actual email text):

"I have not herd from u if there no payment by tommarow I will put a lean on the house and I will take the the pluming out and by law I can take out what I was not payed for I gave u a 1000$ off so 12.000 is what I want buy tues"

I'm assuming he's asking for $1200... But, I'm not sure...

I'm not a contractor, but I'm an engineer that works in the construction business. I've asked a few contractors I work with (they are all on the commercial - not residential side), and they all said that to frame a tub wall, they'd expect maybe $500 at most for materials and labor, and that's on the high side. I've done some research, and found a website that lists typical rates based on zip code, and it lists framing an interior wall for that size of bathroom at around $250-$300. I'm willing to pay him the $500 at this point, just to go away, but I'm not sending any more than that.

Anyway, from what I understand he's free to file a lein on the house, granted he goes through the proper channels. However, does he have a right to go into the house and remove the work that he's claiming wasn't paid for (the interior wall and subfloor)? I'm not exactly sure how he's going to manage taking out the interior wall that he's already tiled over, as well as the sub floor that he's already put new flooring over?

Also, I should mention that he failed to replace the shower nozzle with the item specifically listed in the contract (that alone is $100 retail price).

I should also point out that the contractor was the sales guy for a remodeling company (let's call them RemodelCo). The original contract was written up by RemodelCo. We had issues getting the financing, and once we finally came up with the cash for the job, we contacted the Contractor again. He said that he could perform the work himself and could do it for about $1500 cheaper than if we went through RemodelCo (yeah, I know... should have been a big red flag right there). Well, he basically took the original contract, and sent it back to me with his business card as the header (covering the RemodelCo header). Inside the contract RemodelCo is still listed as warrantying the work according to the "Lifetime Workmanship Warranty" as described by RemodelCo.

Worst part is, the people living in the house gave him a key for access when he was doing the work, and he has refused to return it to them. I'm looking into getting a locksmith now before he thinks he can just head over there and start ripping the (only) restroom out of the house to get his materials back.

Looking for any advice here... But, mainly want to know what right he has (if any) to take out the walls and flooring he's claiming haven't been paid for.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I hired a contractor to do some work on a bathroom in a rental house that I own in Michigan. Unfortunately, I live in Texas, so have only been able to communicate with the contractor by phone. I have a written contract that details (to an extent) the work that was to be done. I can post the contract if anyone wants to see it.

The basic scope of work was to tear out an existing bathtub and shower liner, tear out the bath walls and replace them with a new tub and tiled walls, put in a new floor, and put the existing toilet and sink back in after the new floor was put down.

Anyway, during the first day the contractor was in the house, he called me and told me that there was some additional work that he had to do as there was some water damage behind the walls. He claimed that he needed to replace the studs in the wall. I asked him what the additional cost was going to be, and he said it would be "a couple hundred dollars." I said that was fine, and asked him to continue with the work.

The terms of the contract stated that $4,000 was due up front. A balance of $2,100 was due at the completion of the project.

When the contractor was finished, he sent me a text message stating that I owed $4,200. I was obviously shocked as this was $2100 more than was written into the contract and much more than "a couple hundred dollars" for the extra work that we agreed to. He had no explanation of what work was done. In order to close out my conditions of the contract, I sent $2,400 to the contractor via Postal Money Orders. This included the $300 for the sub-floor and $2100 for the final payment. He received the money, and sent me a text message to ask me where the other "$2000 was?".

I called him back. When I asked him how he came up with $2100 in extra work, he said that he had to 1) Replace the entire sub floor, 2) Replace the studs in the wall, 3) Snake the drain line for the bathtub, 4) Replace some O-rings on a toilet valve, and 5) Re-route the new drain from the new tub. He said that the entire sub floor needed to be replaced and that alone was $1000. I explained to him that written into the contract was that if the entire sub-floor needed to be replaced, there would be an additional $300 charge. At this point, he started to back pedal, and said there was still $2000 worth of work in the other work he performed. I asked him to send me an itemized list of the work he did so that I could look it over. After we spoke on the phone, he sent me a text message stating "I just had a talk with my wife and I do feel bad this is what ill do for u if u can pay $1100 in one payment ill eat half the labor that's the best I can come up with for u."

Two days later, he sent another text message to see if I received his message about the discount. I replied that I did, and that I was still waiting for his itemized list of labor and materials. I then sent him an email, asking for the same... I also asked for pictures showing that he replaced the studs in the wall, and asked for receipts for the materials he had to purchase. He replied the next day with nothing more than a poorly written description of the work that he did.

Before he started the work, he knew that there was quite a bit of water leaking through the walls and into the basement. In the contract, is the following, "Expense incurred because of unusual or unanticipated conditions will be paid for by the Owner." In my opinion, the soggy studs that he encountered in the wall should not have been unanticipated, although, I'm willing to pay a reasonable fee for the replacement of these studs. However, I'm yet to be convinced that he performed $2000 in work (let alone $1100)

This morning he sent me an email stating the following (this is the actual email text):

"I have not herd from u if there no payment by tommarow I will put a lean on the house and I will take the the pluming out and by law I can take out what I was not payed for I gave u a 1000$ off so 12.000 is what I want buy tues"

I'm assuming he's asking for $1200... But, I'm not sure...

I'm not a contractor, but I'm an engineer that works in the construction business. I've asked a few contractors I work with (they are all on the commercial - not residential side), and they all said that to frame a tub wall, they'd expect maybe $500 at most for materials and labor, and that's on the high side. I've done some research, and found a website that lists typical rates based on zip code, and it lists framing an interior wall for that size of bathroom at around $250-$300. I'm willing to pay him the $500 at this point, just to go away, but I'm not sending any more than that.

Anyway, from what I understand he's free to file a lein on the house, granted he goes through the proper channels. However, does he have a right to go into the house and remove the work that he's claiming wasn't paid for (the interior wall and subfloor)? I'm not exactly sure how he's going to manage taking out the interior wall that he's already tiled over, as well as the sub floor that he's already put new flooring over?

Also, I should mention that he failed to replace the shower nozzle with the item specifically listed in the contract (that alone is $100 retail price).

I should also point out that the contractor was the sales guy for a remodeling company (let's call them RemodelCo). The original contract was written up by RemodelCo. We had issues getting the financing, and once we finally came up with the cash for the job, we contacted the Contractor again. He said that he could perform the work himself and could do it for about $1500 cheaper than if we went through RemodelCo (yeah, I know... should have been a big red flag right there). Well, he basically took the original contract, and sent it back to me with his business card as the header (covering the RemodelCo header). Inside the contract RemodelCo is still listed as warrantying the work according to the "Lifetime Workmanship Warranty" as described by RemodelCo.

Worst part is, the people living in the house gave him a key for access when he was doing the work, and he has refused to return it to them. I'm looking into getting a locksmith now before he thinks he can just head over there and start ripping the (only) restroom out of the house to get his materials back.

Looking for any advice here... But, mainly want to know what right he has (if any) to take out the walls and flooring he's claiming haven't been paid for.

He has the right to place a contractor's lien, not tear out the work. Get the locks changed ASAP.

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

I hired a contractor to do some work on a bathroom in a rental house that I own in Michigan. Unfortunately, I live in Texas, so have only been able to communicate with the contractor by phone. I have a written contract that details (to an extent) the work that was to be done. I can post the contract if anyone wants to see it.

The basic scope of work was to tear out an existing bathtub and shower liner, tear out the bath walls and replace them with a new tub and tiled walls, put in a new floor, and put the existing toilet and sink back in after the new floor was put down.

Anyway, during the first day the contractor was in the house, he called me and told me that there was some additional work that he had to do as there was some water damage behind the walls. He claimed that he needed to replace the studs in the wall. I asked him what the additional cost was going to be, and he said it would be "a couple hundred dollars." I said that was fine, and asked him to continue with the work.

The terms of the contract stated that $4,000 was due up front. A balance of $2,100 was due at the completion of the project.

When the contractor was finished, he sent me a text message stating that I owed $4,200. I was obviously shocked as this was $2100 more than was written into the contract and much more than "a couple hundred dollars" for the extra work that we agreed to. He had no explanation of what work was done. In order to close out my conditions of the contract, I sent $2,400 to the contractor via Postal Money Orders. This included the $300 for the sub-floor and $2100 for the final payment. He received the money, and sent me a text message to ask me where the other "$2000 was?".

I called him back. When I asked him how he came up with $2100 in extra work, he said that he had to 1) Replace the entire sub floor, 2) Replace the studs in the wall, 3) Snake the drain line for the bathtub, 4) Replace some O-rings on a toilet valve, and 5) Re-route the new drain from the new tub. He said that the entire sub floor needed to be replaced and that alone was $1000. I explained to him that written into the contract was that if the entire sub-floor needed to be replaced, there would be an additional $300 charge. At this point, he started to back pedal, and said there was still $2000 worth of work in the other work he performed. I asked him to send me an itemized list of the work he did so that I could look it over. After we spoke on the phone, he sent me a text message stating "I just had a talk with my wife and I do feel bad this is what ill do for u if u can pay $1100 in one payment ill eat half the labor that's the best I can come up with for u."

Two days later, he sent another text message to see if I received his message about the discount. I replied that I did, and that I was still waiting for his itemized list of labor and materials. I then sent him an email, asking for the same... I also asked for pictures showing that he replaced the studs in the wall, and asked for receipts for the materials he had to purchase. He replied the next day with nothing more than a poorly written description of the work that he did.

Before he started the work, he knew that there was quite a bit of water leaking through the walls and into the basement. In the contract, is the following, "Expense incurred because of unusual or unanticipated conditions will be paid for by the Owner." In my opinion, the soggy studs that he encountered in the wall should not have been unanticipated, although, I'm willing to pay a reasonable fee for the replacement of these studs. However, I'm yet to be convinced that he performed $2000 in work (let alone $1100)

This morning he sent me an email stating the following (this is the actual email text):

"I have not herd from u if there no payment by tommarow I will put a lean on the house and I will take the the pluming out and by law I can take out what I was not payed for I gave u a 1000$ off so 12.000 is what I want buy tues"

I'm assuming he's asking for $1200... But, I'm not sure...

I'm not a contractor, but I'm an engineer that works in the construction business. I've asked a few contractors I work with (they are all on the commercial - not residential side), and they all said that to frame a tub wall, they'd expect maybe $500 at most for materials and labor, and that's on the high side. I've done some research, and found a website that lists typical rates based on zip code, and it lists framing an interior wall for that size of bathroom at around $250-$300. I'm willing to pay him the $500 at this point, just to go away, but I'm not sending any more than that.

Anyway, from what I understand he's free to file a lein on the house, granted he goes through the proper channels. However, does he have a right to go into the house and remove the work that he's claiming wasn't paid for (the interior wall and subfloor)? I'm not exactly sure how he's going to manage taking out the interior wall that he's already tiled over, as well as the sub floor that he's already put new flooring over?

Also, I should mention that he failed to replace the shower nozzle with the item specifically listed in the contract (that alone is $100 retail price).

I should also point out that the contractor was the sales guy for a remodeling company (let's call them RemodelCo). The original contract was written up by RemodelCo. We had issues getting the financing, and once we finally came up with the cash for the job, we contacted the Contractor again. He said that he could perform the work himself and could do it for about $1500 cheaper than if we went through RemodelCo (yeah, I know... should have been a big red flag right there). Well, he basically took the original contract, and sent it back to me with his business card as the header (covering the RemodelCo header). Inside the contract RemodelCo is still listed as warrantying the work according to the "Lifetime Workmanship Warranty" as described by RemodelCo.

Worst part is, the people living in the house gave him a key for access when he was doing the work, and he has refused to return it to them. I'm looking into getting a locksmith now before he thinks he can just head over there and start ripping the (only) restroom out of the house to get his materials back.

Looking for any advice here... But, mainly want to know what right he has (if any) to take out the walls and flooring he's claiming haven't been paid for.

**A:the answer to your question depends upon the terms and conditions in your written contract. Why did you not have a local agent or consultant?

 

[sundevil98]

**A:the answer to your question depends upon the terms and conditions in your written contract. Why did you not have a local agent or consultant?

I guess next time I will.

My wife and I are just trying to get by as best we can with this place. We're upside down on the mortgage by a LOT, and have to rent a house in Texas as well. We're not poor, but we're by no means super wealthy. We've been lucky so far without having to spend a ton of money. Believe me, if I could get rid of this house without having to write a huge check to the bank, I would.

Also, nothing in the contract says he can come back and take out any work not paid for... I've never heard anything like that. I believe he's just being threatening.

 

[sundevil98]

Another Question about Lein Amount

Let's say Contractor files a Lein... Does he have to substantiate the amount in some way? If not, it seems like he gets to write a blank check for whatever he feels he's owed. Is there some sort of arbitration process to settle the amount?

 

[CSO286]

Let's say Contractor files a Lein... Does he have to substantiate the amount in some way? If not, it seems like he gets to write a blank check for whatever he feels he's owed. Is there some sort of arbitration process to settle the amount?

If I'm not mistaken, in order to obtain the lien, he'll first have to sue you and win a monetary judgment.

The lien is the method of collecting on said judgment.

You would have the opportunity to appear in court and contest his suit.

 

[LdiJ]

If I'm not mistaken, in order to obtain the lien, he'll first have to sue you and win a monetary judgment.

The lien is the method of collecting on said judgment.

You would have the opportunity to appear in court and contest his suit.

Contractor's liens don't work that way. It is not necessary to get a judgment before placing a contractor's lien. Basically all a contractor has to do is state that they did not get paid. Then its up to the homeowner to take it to court to fight the lien.

 

[CSO286]

Contractor's liens don't work that way. It is not necessary to get a judgment before placing a contractor's lien. Basically all a contractor has to do is state that they did not get paid. Then its up to the homeowner to take it to court to fight the lien.

I stand corrected.

 

[sundevil98]

Michigan Construction Lien Act

Is anyone familiar with the Michigan Construction Lien Act?

I've been perusing through it tonight. Basically, I'd specifically like to know what sort of repercussions I now face as I was unaware I was supposed to post a Notice Of Commencement during the duration of the work.

It's water under the bridge now, but it appears my only repercussions are that I would need to reimburse any contractor or subcontractor any fees they imposed in trying to get my contact information in order to send me a Notice of Furnishing.

 

[HomeGuru]

Is anyone familiar with the Michigan Construction Lien Act?

I've been perusing through it tonight. Basically, I'd specifically like to know what sort of repercussions I now face as I was unaware I was supposed to post a Notice Of Commencement during the duration of the work.

It's water under the bridge now, but it appears my only repercussions are that I would need to reimburse any contractor or subcontractor any fees they imposed in trying to get my contact information in order to send me a Notice of Furnishing.

**A: so did you hire an attorney yet?

 

[sundevil98]

**A: so did you hire an attorney yet?

I sent the contractor a certified letter stating to not contact me until he could provide evidence of the work he's claiming he did. He replied with a text message again threatening to enter the home, tear out the tile work he did, and remove the studs from the walls.

I did some investigating, and found the guy's middle name through those Internet lookup sites. He does not have a contractor's license.

I think he's up doo doo creek without a paddle. The Michigan law specifically says your rights as a contractor who provides improvements without a license is basically doing so at his own risk as the contractor cannot file a lawsuit to collect monies owed, nor can he/she file a lien on the property.

I sent him another letter today telling him to take the items I've requested (license number, notice of furnishing, sworn statement, receipts, and photographs) to his attorney and have his attorney contact me. I also specifically requested he make no further contact with me.

If he sends another threatening or intimidating email or calls me, I will seek a restraining order for stalking per Michigan statute.

 

[HomeGuru]

Good luck to you.