creditor refuses to provide aged credit card agreement, what are my options?

[SCREWCREDIT]

FLORIDA

In 1997, I opened a credit card account with a local credit union. The account fell deragotory and has exhausted the 7.5 year FCRA allowable credit reporting period. It righteously fell off my consumer files in November, however, it has been illegally reaged. It's also my opinion several other subsections of the FCRA have been violated. I intend to move forward with litigation.

Before I do so, I need to research the answers to some very important questions. I must obtain the credit card agreement provisioning this account. I have verbally requested the agreement from the institution and I was basically told to go F myself.

I know I can obtain the agreement by subpeona upon filing my suit. However, I must bring suit forward before this subepona can be issued. I do not want to wrongfully file this law suit and I must encase as much certainty around this case as I possibly can. I plan to make my request in writing, so I have a letter of denial for my records. However, at this point..

what are my alternatives for the time being, if any? are there any federal or state information acts that would permit me to obtain this agreement? I could get a copy of the current agreement just for "general knowledge", however, it wouldn't be binding to my 1997 account as I'm sure there have been many provisions in the agreement since that time period.

Thank you.

 

[cmorris]

Send your request certified mail, return receipt.

Can you prove when you defaulted? Do you have copies of your old credit reports?

Is this deliquent account currently with a collection agency?

 

[SCREWCREDIT]

Well, I don't see how those questions are essential to answering mine, but..

a) no I can not prove when I defaulted
b) yes I have old copies of my credit reports, a few anyway
c) no the account has never been sold or sent to a third party collection agency as far as I know.. the ownership of the account still shows as the original creditor provided by the newly and wrongfully reported data
d) whatever records I dont have dont matter.. I can issue subpeonas to Equifax, the institution, etc.

 

[cmorris]

Lawsuits are always a LAST resort. I'm sorry you didn't see the relevance of my questions, but it determines how I think you should proceed.

On your old credit reports, does it show the correct date of last activity? If so (it should), send copies--not the originals--to the credit bureau(s) requesting permanent deletion because the tradeline is obsolete. Send this certified mail return receipt.

Send copies of your old and new credit reports (black out other account info) to the original creditor. In a letter, tell them they have illegally reaged your account. Remind them this is a violation of federal law. If they do not delete, you will be forced to resort to appropriate legal action. Send this certified mail return receipt.

These letters and CMRR cards will help build a paper trail. You always want a good, long paper trail before going to court. It is not a violation until you have brought the error to the offending party's attention. IF they refuse to correct the situation, THEN you have a violation. Judge's want to see that you have tried numerous times to fix this. That means you may have to send a couple of these type of letters (addressed to a "higher-up" in the company is best--can be found on the web), and an intent-to-sue letter. The judge will not care if you have called and complained--you need to PROVE it. Letters sent CMRR and credit reports are great for proof.

Keep a file with ALL of your documents (old credit reports, new credit reports, letters, CMRR cards, etc). If after you have tried numerous times to correct this in writing, then do your homework before you sue.

Go to creditbaords.com to learn more about your rights, letter templates, and filing lawsuits (if it actually comes to that). Start in the Newbie's Section.

 

[SCREWCREDIT]

Unless I overlooked such content, no where in the FCRA does state a consumer must notify the party in violation before a law suit can commence.

I do intend to notify all parties involved, in writing. However, information can be obtained by subepona if necessary. Surely the credit bureaus have archived (on reels I'm sure) the details of every modification made to the files they maintain. I see the point you're making but in contrast, if I rip off someones car, law enforcement isn't going to ask the owner if he made an ample attempt to "resolve it" before they charge me with grand theft auto.

It is my opinion there is a crime being committed here. I know it sounds unrealistic, but I don't see why the US Attorneys office, on my behalf, couldn't hold the company criminally liable too. Creditors need to start assuming responsibility for the problems they create. While the FCRA does charge each consumer with the responsibility of maintaining their credit files, it does so only to a certain extent. Too many creditors make a mockery of a consumer credit file and the affected individual is left spending an enormous amount of effort and time cleaning up their willfully non-compliant mistakes. I'm a consultant, my time is worth money. I do quite a bit of IT work for several attorneys. Since I have the right contacts, I'm confident I could obtain the necessary services for a "nominal fee". Therefore, I won't rule out the possibility of litigation on the account of "cost".

And why does everyone keep mentioning "Date of Last Activity". Since when does deragotory information become unreportable determined by the date of last activity. I know that seems to be the general assumption. Individuals educated with credit in general will tell you the clock starts running from the last activity field. I have yet to find where this is true. Read 605 of the FCRA. It defines a totally unrelated method for calculating that time period begining 455 days after the 1996 FCRA amendment. Perhaps the Date of Last Activity governed accounts prior to this enactment date but since the revised act is actually bound to my account in question, I'm really not concerned with how the FCRA was authored prior to the revised versions effective date of December of 1997.

 

[cmorris]

Have you actually read anything from the FTC? Case law? Talked to others who have brought suit WITHOUT the necessary paper trail? That didn't bring the error(s) to the offender's attention? Ever heard of bonafide error?

YOU NEED A PAPER TRAIL!

 

[SCREWCREDIT]

A paper trail would be useful, I agree. It's not essential to bringing a suit forward. If the parties involved are issued subpeonas for relevant information to the case, they have to provide it. Both creditors and credit bureaus maintain that information. If ordered by the court to furnish it, they have to. That is why I am not worried about not having items readily available to me such as:

a) credit card agreement
b) a month to month copy of my credit report since 1997 (accounts existence)
c) etc..

I can get that information by subpeona and I intend to.

 

[Ladynred]

Surely the credit bureaus have archived (on reels I'm sure) the details of every modification made to the files they maintain.

Don't bet on it. Keeping that kind of information for that long on EVERY consumer in their files would be a massive task. The CRA's don't keep that kind of information.

Second, it is unlikely that the original creditor even HAS the original contract, they don't keep them in perpetuity either, the general practice for document retention is to purge anything more than 5 years old. Yes, you can subpoena those documents, but I seriously doubt they could produce, even with microfilmed records. If this credit union DOES have a longer retention period, then you may get lucky. I don't see what good it will do you though, illegal re-aging has nothing to do with the date of the original contract.

Per the FACT Act, you have the right to dispute directly with the furnisher of the information contained in your reports. I presume that is what you've done. However, asking verbally is NOT going to get you anywhere - if its not in writing, it never happened. As CMorris already stated, you need the paper trail.

As for the DOLA, you are correct, that date does NOT determine the start of the reporting period. The date of deliquency that preceeded placement for collections, internal or external, and/or charge-off IS the date you need and reporting that date IS required by the FCRA. However, this date is rarely on your credit reports (except for EQ, I think they supply it), you have to call the CRA and ask them for the date of first deqlinquency. Illegal re-aging is when that date is changed or mis-reported.

Experian has been sued and sued, and sued, they are NOT an easy nut to crack and they will bring their considerable resources to bear to fight you tooth and nail. They will deny wrong-doing at every turn and stonewall you to death. I do know of people who have won considerable amounts from EX for their many violations of the law, but it was not simple and the guy who did it had the time, patience and tenacity to keep on their butts.

If you want to sue someone, sue the Credit Union, they are the furnishers of information. Nailing EX is not going to be that easy.