Don't know if I should pay lawyer

[walker2]

What is the name of your state? NY

So I'm trying to get my mother signed up for Medicaid while protecting a trust she inherited, which has a spendthrift clause. I had a phone conversation set up with a lawyer and was told by someone from his office that the first half hour would be free, but if the call went longer he charges 295-375 per hour. It didn't go longer, and during the call I asked the lawyer about the costs and he gave me a number of 6k. I decided to go with him and we then exchanged some emails, mainly me giving him information and documents he asked for.

Then I'm sent an engagement letter asking for a 12k retainer. Feeling misled, I then tell him I'm not moving forward with him because I was under the impression it would be 6k. Then a week later I'm surprised to get an invoice of almost 800 for 2.4 hours he spent on my emails and documents. My initial reaction is I shouldn't pay him because I had not yet agreed to pay him anything. The only thing I thought I could be charged for at that point was if the phone call went over half an hour, something I would be able to control. I took notes during my phone call with him and the person at his office, and I didn't write anywhere I would be paying him for this, nor do I remember agreeing to it, and it's not in the emails either.

However, this is the first time I've tried to hire a lawyer and I suppose it's possible I don't remember the conversations perfectly. So I'm wondering if this is normal for a lawyer to charge for time spent without a clear written or verbal agreement.

 

[Zigner]

Yes, he did work on your behalf. Pay the man.

As a note, a "retainer" is like a deposit. Your case may only end up being $6k, or it may be more. The way it works is that the attorney holds on to those funds in a client trust account and whittles away at them as he does work for you. Once it's all said and done, the attorney refunds whatever is left in the account.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? NY

So I'm trying to get my mother signed up for Medicaid while protecting a trust she inherited, which has a spendthrift clause. I had a phone conversation set up with a lawyer and was told by someone from his office that the first half hour would be free, but if the call went longer he charges 295-375 per hour. It didn't go longer, and during the call I asked the lawyer about the costs and he gave me a number of 6k. I decided to go with him and we then exchanged some emails, mainly me giving him information and documents he asked for.

Then I'm sent an engagement letter asking for a 12k retainer. Feeling misled, I then tell him I'm not moving forward with him because I was under the impression it would be 6k. Then a week later I'm surprised to get an invoice of almost 800 for 2.4 hours he spent on my emails and documents. My initial reaction is I shouldn't pay him because I had not yet agreed to pay him anything. The only thing I thought I could be charged for at that point was if the phone call went over half an hour, something I would be able to control. I took notes during my phone call with him and the person at his office, and I didn't write anywhere I would be paying him for this, nor do I remember agreeing to it, and it's not in the emails either.

However, this is the first time I've tried to hire a lawyer and I suppose it's possible I don't remember the conversations perfectly. So I'm wondering if this is normal for a lawyer to charge for time spent without a clear written or verbal agreement.

How did you find this attorney? Is the lawyer licensed to practice in New York?

You can file a complaint with the Bar organization.

 

[Zigner]

How did you find this attorney? Is the lawyer licensed to practice in New York?

You can file a complaint with the Bar organization.

A complaint for what? It doesn't appear anything improper has occurred.

 

[quincy]

A complaint for what? It doesn't appear anything improper has occurred.

A $6000 figure was quoted. Had a $12,000 figure been quoted, documents would not have been sent.

Here is a link to the New York Bar’s Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 1.5:

https://www.nycourts.gov/legacypdfs/rules/jointappellate/NY-Rules-Prof-Conduct-1200.pdf#page11

 

[Zigner]

A $6000 figure was quoted. Had a $12,000 figure been quoted, documents would not have been sent.

The attorney wasn't charging $12,000, so there's no conflict with the quote.
The attorney was asking for a refundable retainer, which does not appear to be addressed in your linked PDF.

 

[quincy]

There was a failure by the attorney to communicate properly the cost of representation. walker2 was told, or was at least under the impression, that the cost to retain the attorney was $6000.

Yes, the attorney spent time with emails and reading documents and that would ordinarily justify a charge for the attorney’s time based on the attorney’s rate - but walker2 was misled at the start about the amount needed to retain the attorney. Had he been told $12,000, there would have been no emails or documents sent to the attorney.

 

[walker2]

A $6000 figure was quoted. Had a $12,000 figure been quoted, documents would not have been sent.

Here is a link to the New York Bar’s Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 1.5:

https://www.nycourts.gov/legacypdfs/rules/jointappellate/NY-Rules-Prof-Conduct-1200.pdf#page11

Thanks for the link. He is a member of the NYS bar. It seems like he didn't follow rule 1.5 (b)

(b) A lawyer shall communicate to a client the scope of the representation and the basis or rate of the fee and expenses for which the client will be responsible. This information shall be communicated to the client before or within a reasonable time after commencement of the representation and shall be in writing where required by statute or court rule. This provision shall not apply when the lawyer will charge a regularly represented client on the same basis or rate and perform services that are of the same general kind as previously rendered to and paid for by the client. Any changes in the scope of the representation or the basis or rate of the fee or expenses shall also be communicated to the client.

I didn't feel I should have to pay him because we hadn't set up an agreement yet and I was unaware he would be charging me before we did. When I told him I wouldn't be moving forward, he said he thought I was given a 6k-14k range and that he thought it would take 10k. However, I'm sure the only number he gave me was 6k.

 

[quincy]

Thanks for the link. He is a member of the NYS bar. It seems like he didn't follow rule 1.5 (b)

(b) A lawyer shall communicate to a client the scope of the representation and the basis or rate of the fee and expenses for which the client will be responsible. This information shall be communicated to the client before or within a reasonable time after commencement of the representation and shall be in writing where required by statute or court rule. This provision shall not apply when the lawyer will charge a regularly represented client on the same basis or rate and perform services that are of the same general kind as previously rendered to and paid for by the client. Any changes in the scope of the representation or the basis or rate of the fee or expenses shall also be communicated to the client.

I didn't feel I should have to pay him because we hadn't set up an agreement yet and I was unaware he would be charging me before we did. When I told him I wouldn't be moving forward, he said he thought I was given a 6k-14k range and that he thought it would take 10k. However, I'm sure the only number he gave me was 6k.

The attorney probably didn’t mean to mislead you to the upfront cost of representation but if he only mentioned the $6000 figure and then tried to get you to agree to $12,000, that would be deceptive.

You should try to work this out with the attorney before formally disputing the bill. It sounds like an honest misunderstanding rather than an intentional act to deceive.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to information on the New York Fee Dispute Resolution Program:

http://ww2.nycourts.gov/rules/chiefadmin/137.shtml

 

[adjusterjack]

I didn't feel I should have to pay him because we hadn't set up an agreement yet and I was unaware he would be charging me before we did. When I told him I wouldn't be moving forward, he said he thought I was given a 6k-14k range and that he thought it would take 10k. However, I'm sure the only number he gave me was 6k.

Then you need to file a fee dispute, like right now. Sit on this too long and you might end up sued or in collections.

As soon as you file your dispute (in writing) send him a copy so he knows what's coming. He might cut you some slack to avoid the hassle and "unbillable" time that it takes him to respond to the fee dispute people.

 

[quincy]

I believe it is better to try to resolve this with the attorney prior to filing a dispute. It is possible that the attorney will agree to cancel the bill. However, walker2 will want the cancellation in writing and signed by the lawyer.

 

[Zigner]

I believe it is better to try to resolve this with the attorney prior to filing a dispute. It is possible that the attorney will agree to cancel the bill. However, walker2 will want the cancellation in writing and signed by the lawyer.

walker2 should also be open to the idea of splitting the bill.

 

[quincy]

walker2 should also be open to the idea of splitting the bill.

That could be a good way to resolve the matter quickly.

 

[zddoodah]

Then I'm sent an engagement letter asking for a 12k retainer. Feeling misled, I then tell him I'm not moving forward with him because I was under the impression it would be 6k.

The more reasonable response would have been to call the lawyer and say, "Hey...when we spoke, you said the fee would be $6k, but the retainer says $12k. Is this a typo?"

Then a week later I'm surprised to get an invoice of almost 800 for 2.4 hours he spent on my emails and documents. My initial reaction is I shouldn't pay him because I had not yet agreed to pay him anything. The only thing I thought I could be charged for at that point was if the phone call went over half an hour

Did you think this stuff was being done for free: "we then exchanged some emails, mainly me giving him information and documents he asked for," and did you think he wasn't doing anything with the documents you provided in anticipation of you signing the retainer?

So I'm wondering if this is normal for a lawyer to charge for time spent without a clear written or verbal agreement.

What you described is perfectly normal. Unless there's more to the story that you haven't told us, your response was unreasonable.