Drop off of children

[cooltwins]

What is the name of your state? MN

Joint custody, two children age 13. Court orders state that during the summer, mom will drop off children at dad's by 9pm on Sunday. Dad sent email stating that this Sunday, drop off must be at 7:30pm because he will not be home. Did not ask politely, stated that this is how it would be. Dad stated that if Mom did not drop off by 7:30, she must drop off by 6:30am Monday morning. It is a 1 hour drive to Dad's. Children have no way of getting into house if Dad is not home.

Does mom have to drop off at 7:30 instead of 9pm? If she drives to Dad's and he is not home, can she bring children back to her home and tell Dad that he now must pick children up?

1 1/2 hours earlier may seem like no big deal, but if Dad can get away with it once, he will continue to try and get away with it in the future and anything else he can think of. He has a history of this demanding behavior and I have learned not to give in and to follow the paperwork. If he lived 10 mins away, it would be no big deal for me to drive back home and bring them later, but an hours drive is a long ways.

Any advice as to what I should do in this situation?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

What is the name of your state? MN

Joint custody, two children age 13. Court orders state that during the summer, mom will drop off children at dad's by 9pm on Sunday. Dad sent email stating that this Sunday, drop off must be at 7:30pm because he will not be home. Did not ask politely, stated that this is how it would be. Dad stated that if Mom did not drop off by 7:30, she must drop off by 6:30am Monday morning. It is a 1 hour drive to Dad's. Children have no way of getting into house if Dad is not home.

Does mom have to drop off at 7:30 instead of 9pm? If she drives to Dad's and he is not home, can she bring children back to her home and tell Dad that he now must pick children up?

1 1/2 hours earlier may seem like no big deal, but if Dad can get away with it once, he will continue to try and get away with it in the future and anything else he can think of. He has a history of this demanding behavior and I have learned not to give in and to follow the paperwork. If he lived 10 mins away, it would be no big deal for me to drive back home and bring them later, but an hours drive is a long ways.

Any advice as to what I should do in this situation?

My response:

You said it yourself - - the orders say "by" 9:00 p.m. That DOESN'T mean "at" 9:00 p.m. It means "no later than" 9:00 p.m.

Dad gets his way on this one.

IAAL

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? MN

Joint custody, two children age 13. Court orders state that during the summer, mom will drop off children at dad's by 9pm on Sunday. Dad sent email stating that this Sunday, drop off must be at 7:30pm because he will not be home. Did not ask politely, stated that this is how it would be. Dad stated that if Mom did not drop off by 7:30, she must drop off by 6:30am Monday morning. It is a 1 hour drive to Dad's. Children have no way of getting into house if Dad is not home.

Does mom have to drop off at 7:30 instead of 9pm? If she drives to Dad's and he is not home, can she bring children back to her home and tell Dad that he now must pick children up?

1 1/2 hours earlier may seem like no big deal, but if Dad can get away with it once, he will continue to try and get away with it in the future and anything else he can think of. He has a history of this demanding behavior and I have learned not to give in and to follow the paperwork. If he lived 10 mins away, it would be no big deal for me to drive back home and bring them later, but an hours drive is a long ways.

Any advice as to what I should do in this situation?

Nope...you do not have to agree to that...nor do you have to agree to a 6:30 AM dropoff on Monday.

You should respond to dad's email and tell him that you will either drop off the kids at 9:00 PM as normal or he can make arrangements to pick up the children at his convenience.

KEEP A HARD COPY OF HIS EMAIL.

 

[stealth2]

Nope...you do not have to agree to that...nor do you have to agree to a 6:30 AM dropoff on Monday.

You should respond to dad's email and tell him that you will either drop off the kids at 9:00 PM as normal or he can make arrangements to pick up the children at his convenience.

KEEP A HARD COPY OF HIS EMAIL.

Except, as IAAL pointed out, she didn't say AT 9pm, but BY 9pm. This truly seems like one of those nitpicky things that is not worth digging one's heels in over.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

What is the name of your state? MN

Joint custody, two children age 13. Court orders state that during the summer, mom will drop off children at dad's by 9pm on Sunday. Dad sent email stating that this Sunday, drop off must be at 7:30pm because he will not be home. Did not ask politely, stated that this is how it would be. Dad stated that if Mom did not drop off by 7:30, she must drop off by 6:30am Monday morning. It is a 1 hour drive to Dad's. Children have no way of getting into house if Dad is not home.

Does mom have to drop off at 7:30 instead of 9pm? If she drives to Dad's and he is not home, can she bring children back to her home and tell Dad that he now must pick children up?

1 1/2 hours earlier may seem like no big deal, but if Dad can get away with it once, he will continue to try and get away with it in the future and anything else he can think of. He has a history of this demanding behavior and I have learned not to give in and to follow the paperwork. If he lived 10 mins away, it would be no big deal for me to drive back home and bring them later, but an hours drive is a long ways.

Any advice as to what I should do in this situation?

Pick your battles wisely, why is it that 13 yo children don't have a house key for their residence during the summer?

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Nope...you do not have to agree to that...nor do you have to agree to a 6:30 AM dropoff on Monday.

You should respond to dad's email and tell him that you will either drop off the kids at 9:00 PM as normal or he can make arrangements to pick up the children at his convenience.

KEEP A HARD COPY OF HIS EMAIL.

My response:

Ldij - how much real life, actual, legal experience to you have concerning this type of an issue? Oh, that's right - - none.

IAAL

 

[stealth2]

Pick your battles wisely, why is it that 13 yo children don't have a house key for their residence during the summer?

Good question. Although I suppose a lot depends on what time Dad intends to be home, as well as the maturity of the kids, and the type of area the residence is in. I know I'd be okay with mine being on their own here for a few hours if necessary - even at night.

 

[LdiJ]

Except, as IAAL pointed out, she didn't say AT 9pm, but BY 9pm. This truly seems like one of those nitpicky things that is not worth digging one's heels in over.

I am not sure that I agree...based on what she stated in her first post. Plus, dad's "either/or" clearly wasn't reasonable. Come on.....6:30 AM when its an hour drive?

"By 9:00 PM" also doesn't give dad the authority to assign an earlier time. I stand by my original answer.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

I am not sure that I agree...based on what she stated in her first post. Plus, dad's "either/or" clearly wasn't reasonable. Come on.....6:30 AM when its an hour drive?

"By 9:00 PM" also doesn't give dad the authority to assign an earlier time. I stand by my original answer.

My response:

You obviously have no experience, LdiJ. Writer, please pay no attention to the inexperienced "LdiJ". Just read your own words. The answer is just as I have stated.

IAAL

 

[LdiJ]

My response:

Ldij - how much real life, actual, legal experience to you have concerning this type of an issue? Oh, that's right - - none.

IAAL

Wrong...observation...in and out of court. What's more I KNOW that you know as well that "by 9:00 PM" doesn't mean that dad can dictate when the kids are to be returned.

Based on the original post I see nothing wrong...and possibly everything right, with mom standing her ground on this one. We all know that there are a lot of parents out there, men and women who think that they can "dictate" terms. I personally believe that its best to put those types of parents...male or female...firmly in their place whenever possible.

 

[SingleMom67]

I think what gets forgot often times in this forum is what the long-term outcome may be of decisions that are made. In other words, if this poster decides to not drop off the kids at 6:30 (because of variances in language interpretation ("by" or "at")) and Dad decides to file for contempt against her, the judge is going to be pretty p.o.'d that the mother couldn't be flexible enough to move up the time by an hour and a half. I agree with the comment of pick and chose the battles. If you honestly can drop them off at 6:30 just do it. Ask the father to ask you a little nicer next time. Maybe give you more warning. Possibly provide the children with a key if you feel comfortable with that. But if you can't get them there at 6:30, then send a response detailing why you can't. And yes, keep copies!!!

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Wrong...observation...in and out of court.

My response:

I forgot . . . you're an experienced "observer." Well, then, by all means, the writer should follow your "tried and true", "knowledgeable" legal experience. Oh, brother.

If the court wanted to make an order that stated "only at 9:00 p.m.", then I could agree with you. This would have been a simple matter for the court to do. But, by signing the order with the word by, the court built in "flexibility." The word "by" is just another way of saying "no later than."

IAAL

 

[legalcuriosity]

Wrong...observation...in and out of court. What's more I KNOW that you know as well that "by 9:00 PM" doesn't mean that dad can dictate when the kids are to be returned.

No, but because of that language, it DOES leave it up for interpretation. Legally, he can ask for the children to be dropped off at this time. It's only 90 minutes before the deadline, which is 9pm. It's not like he's being asked to drop off the kids at 3 pm. It states by 9pm.

While people have gone back-and-forth on this forum about broad and vague language in other orders, this is neither. The mom can certainly refuse, but it wouldn't look good on here and would most likely find her in contempt. If she refuses, then she must drop-off the child at another time the dad does dictate.

It's no different if the mom needed to drop the kids off at 7:30 because of a prior commitment. 7:30 is by 9pm. The ball IS in the dad's court with this one.

 

[cooltwins]

I should of had the exact wording in front of me. Sorry about that. It states that during the summer, my parenting time will begin at 5pm on Friday and end at 9pm on Sunday.

Dad is a very controlling, manipulative compulsive liar. Constantly makes threats to get his way, which I usually ignore. Told me in an email that I had to have the boys dropped off by 7:30pm because he would not be home until 11:30pm. He will not give them a house key because he is afraid that someone will get a hold of the key and break into his house. It is a nice residential neighborhood, but he just moved there and the boys do not know any of the neighbors. I would feel uncomfortable asking them to keep the boys until 11:30pm. He will not even give me or the boys his cell phone number to reach him at.

So again, if I give in on what may seem like a minor issue, he will continue to try and get away with these type of things. He will point out everytime, that I did it once, so no reason why I can't do it again. I do not want to set a precidence and would prefer to stick to the original paperwork.

I feel that I should bring the kids back at 9pm and if he is not there and they cannot get into the house, I can bring them back home and he can now come and get them. (Paperwork also states that whoever is caring for the children on the weekend will provide transportation). Because of this clause, would I be better to bring them back on Monday after I get off work. Leaving at 5:30am so I can have them back before he leaves for work is rediculous. Plus, when he lived closer, he left early one time and left me a note stating that since I was late, he wanted me to bring them to his work so he could then bring them home. (I brought them to their grandparents and he picked them up on his way home).

It's a difficult situation and I just want to do what is right.

 

[legalcuriosity]

I should of had the exact wording in front of me. Sorry about that. It states that during the summer, my parenting time will begin at 5pm on Friday and end at 9pm on Sunday.

Are you sure that is the exact language of your order? "Begins at 5pm" and "end at 9pm." As you can see from the responses so far, what you stated before is open to interpretation.

Dad is a very controlling, manipulative compulsive liar. Constantly makes threats to get his way, which I usually ignore. Told me in an email that I had to have the boys dropped off by 7:30pm because he would not be home until 11:30pm. He will not give them a house key because he is afraid that someone will get a hold of the key and break into his house. It is a nice residential neighborhood, but he just moved there and the boys do not know any of the neighbors. I would feel uncomfortable asking them to keep the boys until 11:30pm. He will not even give me or the boys his cell phone number to reach him at.

So again, if I give in on what may seem like a minor issue, he will continue to try and get away with these type of things. He will point out everytime, that I did it once, so no reason why I can't do it again. I do not want to set a precidence and would prefer to stick to the original paperwork.

Not to take the dad's side, but his reasons and concerns for not giving keys to the children is legit, whether you agree with it or not. It is his house, after all. As far as his cell, he's not under any obligation to give you that either (unless the CO stated a back-up number, for example). Have you even talked about dropping him off LATER -- when they get home? Overall, this seems like it's nitpicking.

I feel that I should bring the kids back at 9pm and if he is not there and they cannot get into the house, I can bring them back home and he can now come and get them. (Paperwork also states that whoever is caring for the children on the weekend will provide transportation). Because of this clause, would I be better to bring them back on Monday after I get off work. Leaving at 5:30am so I can have them back before he leaves for work is rediculous. Plus, when he lived closer, he left early one time and left me a note stating that since I was late, he wanted me to bring them to his work so he could then bring them home. (I brought them to their grandparents and he picked them up on his way home).

While that's how you feel, he did give you ample notice, so you could lose that argument there. It's not like you went by at 9pm and he wasn't there. You were given notice and an attempt was made to be flexible.

Like I said, just agree with him this time. Is it really worth it over 90 minutes? If he winds up developing a pattern, you've got the court order to "remind" him. See what happens instead of jumping to conclusions.

Also, it sounds like there are some other "issues" regarding visitation drop-off/pickup, etc. You might want to review it to see if there's anything vague that might need to be modified to be more specific.