Duty to Facilitate Relationship with NCP

[proud_parent]

What is the name of your state? Iowa

As some of you recall, my husband (H) was awarded sole custody of his and his ex-wife's (X) eight year old daughter (D) in Nov. 2007. H has had primary physical care of D since Jan. 2007; X previously had primary physical care, but H sought and was granted a modification after repeated violations of the custody and visitation order by X.

X has not exercised physical visitation with D since Mar. 2007. She also has not exercised telephone visitation for six weeks. Just before her last phone call with D, X wrote a lengthy email to H announcing her intent to discontinue all phone and physical contact with D. Over H's objections, X repeated her intentions to D during their scheduled weekly phone visit the following day.


About a week later, D received a typewritten letter from her mother. D was confused and upset upon reading it, and asked us what she should do. The letter was superficially chatty and concluded with X asking D to write back. No indication whatever that the conversation of a week prior had taken place. D protested, "She just got done saying she doesn't want to talk to me until I'm all grown up, but now she wants me to write and send pictures." D then specifically asked to show the letter to her therapist; I explained to D that it was personal communication, and that she had a right not to discuss it with the therapist (or her father and I, for that matter). "I WANT her to read it," insisted D. The therapist read it at their next session, but merely shook her head in disbelief and said nothing more. She did reiterate that D can continue to place things in her "Mommy Box" to share with her mom at such time X comes to visit again; she also repeated that all of us are here to listen whenever she wants to talk.

Today, H received an email from X addressed to him at work but titled "For D" in the subject line. H read it (which he ought not to have done -- strike one) and forwarded to me. I also read it (which I ought not to have done -- strike two). It is short and innocuosly conversational except for the conclusion:

"How was [sister's] birthday? Mine was good. We went out for dinner. [SD] and the boys [X and SD's pets, not children] got me some nice presents. I missed my card from you. I am looking forward to talking to you or getting a letter soon. Maybe a call for Mother's day? ... we will talk to you soon."

That first is in reference to X's birthday in late March, coincidentally the same day as our toddler's (D's half-sister's) birthday. D mentioned to me early in March that she was thinking of something to write in her mom's birthday card; I reminded her that we ought to get the card in the mail well ahead of time because no one likes belated birthday greetings. Then came X announcing her choice to "step back" from D's life. In the aftermath, I truthfully forgot to ensure that D mailed a birthday card. [Strike three.]

H now wonders at what point his duty to facilitate D's relationship with her mother gives way to his responsibility to shield D from X's continued emotional manipulation. He has observed (quite astutely) that this is typical behavior from X: she makes a grand exit, and then pouts or rages when she feels ignored. X does not assume responsibility for any part of the rifts that she causes.

The stickler in me says that as X seems to be attempting at least a correspondence relationship with D, H must facilitate it. But where ought one draw the line between encouraging and requiring D's participation? Should H merely remind D that she should write mom back? Or should H sit her down at the kitchen table and not let her up until she completes a letter? For what it's worth, H also struggles with the "whose responsibility is it" issue when it comes to D completing homework assignments.

It is also my opinion that H should dial X's number on Mother's Day and place D on the phone, no ifs, ands or buts. I do realize, however, based on past experience that this could mean several hours of consoling D afterward as she tries to make sense of her mom's on again / off again involvement. Am I giving too much weight to H's legal responsibilities and not enough to D's emotional needs?


From a legal standpoint, I suppose my questions are this:

1. Should H insist that D write to her mother? If so, how often? If not, how does he defend against a future claim that he isn't facilitating the relationship?

2. Should H insist that D telephone her mother? If so/if not, same as above?

 

[SopranoKris]

Sounds to me like X is playing mind games with D. She pushes her away and then gets upset when D doesn't come banging down her door with "I love you, Mom". Poor kid!!!!!!!! Wow, that's a really bad thing to do to your own child.

Since my response to this would be filled with my own personal opinion and not a LEGAL answer, I'm going to defer to the seniors on the issue of "encouraging" a relationship vs. "forcing" a relationship. My personal opinion would be filled with a lot of ******'s for how X is treating D. So, I'll just follow the golden rule on this one and keep my mouth shut

 

[Silverplum]

From a legal standpoint, I suppose my questions are this:

1. Should H insist that D write to her mother? If so, how often? If not, how does he defend against a future claim that he isn't facilitating the relationship?

2. Should H insist that D telephone her mother? If so/if not, same as above?

First, I must say that X is a vile beast.

But to answer your questions with ideas, I would give up the concept of "writing letters." Those are too long and require too much of a child in her position.

Try postcards. Or any small cards. That's more than enough, IMO. Child could write, "Hi, I got an A on my spelling test, hope you are fine, love, Kiddo."

IMO, every 2 weeks is more than enough, also. A quick photocopy (which is easy to do with postcards) for the records, and Dad's golden.

IMO again, no calls. Mom can't behave herself, no calls.

 

[proud_parent]

Thanks for the encouragement, Kris, and the suggestions, Silver. I do believe you are correct that brief postcards are both age-appropriate and sufficient at this point. None of us have the time or the will to insist on more.

I know that I come off as in favor of forcing an eight year old to assume responsibility for maintaining a relationship that her own mother is only halfheartedly attempting. Truth is, I have a difficult time walking the line between nurturing and supporting D and making certain her father is in the clear, legally. I was there while X was NOT meeting her duty to support D's relationship with H, and I saw first hand where that got her.

 

[Silverplum]

Thanks for the encouragement, Kris, and the suggestions, Silver. I do believe you are correct that brief postcards are both age-appropriate and sufficient at this point. None of us have the time or the will to insist on more.

I know that I come off as in favor of forcing an eight year old to assume responsibility for maintaining a relationship that her own mother is only halfheartedly attempting. Truth is, I have a difficult time walking the line between nurturing and supporting D and making certain her father is in the clear, legally. I was there while X was NOT meeting her duty to support D's relationship with H, and I saw first hand where that got her.

You "come off" fine and loving. It IS difficult.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Since my daughter has a father who has been known to play mind games, I suggest that dad send copies of report cards, interims, etc. In that envelope, I have my daughter send short note, or a picture, whatever, and have HER seal the envelope. We put the postage on it, and I have her take it to them mailbox. That ended any "I didn't get what you sent" cuz they would have to say that they didn't receive the child's letter either.

If you put a package together once a month, with 'filler', then daughter's letter doesn't have to be long.

 

[wileybunch]

I'm shaking my head that all the counselor could do was shake HER head! She should have been able to give guidance there. Is this Mom bipolar (I thought I recalled that.)? If so, there may be other issues that have happened or will happen that have to be navigated, perhaps w/help of good family counselor. She is clearly immature and puts her needs above her DD's to an extent and the cutting off the relationship was sour grapes b/c she doesn't like to follow rules and was punishing DD for custody being turned over to Dad. Since Mom quickly turned that attitude around in the letter to DD, if DD had asked me, I would have said that it looks like she re-thought that attitude then. I would also insist the therapist participate more in providing guidance at least to the DD if not to Dad/Smom, too, on how to handle it when Mom does the go away/come back thing.

 

[TheGeekess]

I'm shaking my head that all the counselor could do was shake HER head! She should have been able to give guidance there. Is this Mom bipolar (I thought I recalled that.)? If so, there may be other issues that have happened or will happen that have to be navigated, perhaps w/help of good family counselor. She is clearly immature and puts her needs above her DD's to an extent and the cutting off the relationship was sour grapes b/c she doesn't like to follow rules and was punishing DD for custody being turned over to Dad. Since Mom quickly turned that attitude around in the letter to DD, if DD had asked me, I would have said that it looks like she re-thought that attitude then. I would also insist the therapist participate more in providing guidance at least to the DD if not to Dad/Smom, too, on how to handle it when Mom does the go away/come back thing.

From the "push away-come back" aspect, I'd say Mom is BPD. That's one of the hallmarks of that personality disorder.

 

[proud_parent]

From the "push away-come back" aspect, I'd say Mom is BPD. That's one of the hallmarks of that personality disorder.

X meets nearly all diagnostic criteria for both borderline and histrionic personality disorders. To our knowledge, she has not been thus diagnosed.



Thanks, wiley; in fact, H has an email pending to therapist requesting specific direction on how best to proceed.

Perhaps we all do too good a job of masking our frustration and pain when we meet with therapist. She may feel that as the three of us have been able to roll with the punches thus far, no more needs to be said at this point. (We're paying her fee, after all, so shame on us for not speaking up sooner if we need more from her.)

Therapist agrees with H and I that D took these recent developments vastly better than she did the transfer of custody and mom's first disappearing act. If D were less affected by mom's behavior than she is, I would worry that she's repressing. (More affected, and I'd be worried that she's acting out. Can't win for losing. )

FWIW, D seems to be coming to terms with the reality that some people, no matter how much we love them, are not particularly well suited to be good parents. We've been careful to tell her that people CAN change, and that past behavior does not always guarantee future results. But the longer her mom goes without turning over a new leaf, the less likely she is to be waiting up nights for it to happen.

 

[wileybunch]

X meets nearly all diagnostic criteria for both borderline and histrionic personality disorders. To our knowledge, she has not been thus diagnosed.



Thanks, wiley; in fact, H has an email pending to therapist requesting specific direction on how best to proceed.

Perhaps we all do too good a job of masking our frustration and pain when we meet with therapist. She may feel that as the three of us have been able to roll with the punches thus far, no more needs to be said at this point. (We're paying her fee, after all, so shame on us for not speaking up sooner if we need more from her.)

Therapist agrees with H and I that D took these recent developments vastly better than she did the transfer of custody and mom's first disappearing act. If D were less affected by mom's behavior than she is, I would worry that she's repressing. (More affected, and I'd be worried that she's acting out. Can't win for losing. )

FWIW, D seems to be coming to terms with the reality that some people, no matter how much we love them, are not particularly well suited to be good parents. We've been careful to tell her that people CAN change, and that past behavior does not always guarantee future results. But the longer her mom goes without turning over a new leaf, the less likely she is to be waiting up nights for it to happen.

Ah yes, that is very possible. She may be using an "if it's not broke, don't fix it" approach, but in reality, if Mom is suspected of having BPD, that is not easy for anyone to navigate, much less a child. Then she turns to you all who are also trying to grapple with how to deal. Some therapists themselves won't even deal with BPD patients b/c they are very difficult to treat.

It sounds like you all are doing a good job with DD. She has to learn some hard lessons about people and life unfortunately, but hopefully can come out of it with her ego intact and a charitable heart. The periodic post cards suggested are a good idea to put the control of contact in DD's hands.

 

[proud_parent]

The periodic post cards suggested are a good idea to put the control of contact in DD's hands.

Interesting that you should say that; my take (which amounts to nothing, as I am a legal stranger and as I have NO intention of ever voicing this opinion to my stepdaughter) is that this is precisely what these letters are about for X. I'm not naive enough to believe that X has seen the light after six weeks and wants to make amends, even in this abbreviated way. She is merely attempting to exert control to the very last.

To hear X tell it, H does not have sole custody because the court ordered it after X's repeated shenanigans. X relinquished custody because the only way for her to guarantee the best outcome for D was to give H everything he wanted. X claimed precisely that in a long, self-serving rant to D's therapist; it was the only time X has initiated contact with the therapist in sixteen months. The timing of X severing phone contact with D is also telling; it followed immediately on the heels of D beginning to ask her mother pointed questions and to offer practical solutions for exercising visitation, rather than be content with mom's excuses why she can't see her.

I don't relish concluding this, but X has always regarded D primarily as a prize and secondarily as her emotional crutch. That is, until H began asserting his rights in court, and until X found herself a new male companion. When H received primary care and then sole custody, there went D as a means for X to wield control. And when D stopped feeding X's perception of herself as the noble or the wronged parent, there went D as a source of X's narcissistic supply. With those merits off the table, X now has little use for D. But she too much enjoys manipulating both D and H to be totally content to "step bacK" as she insists she is doing. X will continue to insinuate herself throughout the years because more than anything, she hates to be ignored. And barring some true conversion, whenever she does show up in D's life, she'll run away again once D starts making demands on her time or affection.

 

[wileybunch]

Oh boy, that sounds so familiar except that DH's ex would never willingly give her kids up. She likes to put forth the idea she's the better parent. My DH's ex didn't push fighting the contempt motion last year b/c she wanted to save her kids from having to testify against their dad. We had wondered how she reconciled it to the kids what became of things since she had obviously very much included them in what was going on and then a few months later it came out in an email. She also doesn't think the judge told her that he believes she was very much in contempt and the minute order issued -- she doesn't see the language to that effect there, either. (She's also suspected of having BPD) DH is thinking of asking the counselor that they're supposed to work with on co-parenting if he can bring in the videotape from court to play so they can discuss the reality of the situation they have had to deal with vs. her distorted reality she carries around that affects how she speaks to him, handles ongoing situations, etc.

Anyway, your analysis seems pretty right on and at least if you know that's how things work, you can try to keep things on balance otherwise. Hopefully DD doesn't get her hopes up and begins to understand her mom is doing the best she can and it is what it is.

 

[proud_parent]

OK, I'm asking folks to weigh in on a silly but time-sensitive matter.

D's therapist advised the following with regard to "forcing" vs. "encouraging" D to write back:

I think we need to allow [D] to write her Mom when she wants to. If she
says to you, "I want to write my Mom a letter or card", do it. I wouldn't ask
her, for example, "It's your Mom's birthday (or Mother's Day) do you want to
send her a card?"


I'm unsure how the subject got brought up, but H pulled me aside yesterday and informed me that D is adamant she does not want to send a card for Mother's Day. I balked. I told him, fine...no need for her to write a novel...but how hard is it just to sign her name? H came back with, "But her therapist says not to force her." I wanted to point out, therapist said don't ASK her...you're the dad; don't ask, just do. As it happens, D did send her mother a brief "hey, school's going great, sports are starting up soon" note early last week.


My mommy-bias says a Mother's Day card is a non-negotiable sign of respect. After all, I don't give kiddos the choice whether to participate for Father's Day; I take them to Hallmark and announce, "OK, time to pick something out for Daddy." Then again, if I suspected that my child gave me a Mother's Day card only when forced...


So...have D send a Mother's Day card: Yea or Nay?

 

[penelope10]

OK, I'm asking folks to weigh in on a silly but time-sensitive matter.

D's therapist advised the following with regard to "forcing" vs. "encouraging" D to write back:

I think we need to allow [D] to write her Mom when she wants to. If she
says to you, "I want to write my Mom a letter or card", do it. I wouldn't ask
her, for example, "It's your Mom's birthday (or Mother's Day) do you want to
send her a card?"


I'm unsure how the subject got brought up, but H pulled me aside yesterday and informed me that D is adamant she does not want to send a card for Mother's Day. I balked. I told him, fine...no need for her to write a novel...but how hard is it just to sign her name? H came back with, "But her therapist says not to force her." I wanted to point out, therapist said don't ASK her...you're the dad; don't ask, just do. As it happens, D did send her mother a brief "hey, school's going great, sports are starting up soon" note early last week.


My mommy-bias says a Mother's Day card is a non-negotiable sign of respect. After all, I don't give kiddos the choice whether to participate for Father's Day; I take them to Hallmark and announce, "OK, time to pick something out for Daddy." Then again, if I suspected that my child gave me a Mother's Day card only when forced...


So...have D send a Mother's Day card: Yea or Nay?

I think it should be up to D. Since D has sent Mom a note now maybe she's rethought the Mother's Day card thing too. Just wanted to add I think all kid's should have a step that is as loving as you! It sure would solve a lot of the problems we see on this forum!

 

[tuffbrk]

Dad should take her to the store and have her select a card. If she is against selecting one - then have Dad select one for her. It's another step in accepting that Mom is who Mom is, and that disrespectful behavior will not change Mom.

By no means, am i condoning Mom's behavior, nor do I believe that Mom deserves respect as a Mom. I do believe, though, that we need to teach our children that adult family members are given respect, simply because they are OUR family.

One day when they have a wicked teacher that they need to deal with for most of the year, the lesson will come in handy..