Ex fiance retaining things I purchased and want returned.

[eerelations]

Men are always at fault and "deserve" what they get.

If the situation was reversed we would be telling her that she had no legal rights to the gifts she gave you.

 

[mpizzola]

I would not sit well with anyone who was in your shoes. However, the fact that it doesn't sit well doesn't change legal reality. Also, lumping all women or even most women together doesn't help you or anyone else.

I could be equally critical of many men...and it wouldn't be any more appropriate of me than it is of you.

I did not say "all" or "most", I said "a lot". I stand by that statement, and understand that there are a lot of women who have been equally treated poorly in some sense to justify their feelings towards men. While this strays from my purpose of legal advice, I felt it merited a response. I do not hate women or generally now mistrust women because one particular woman happened to hurt me. I appreciate your view, but please don't attribute quotes to me I did not actually say or infer meaning greater than implied.

 

[mpizzola]

The difference being she gave me nothing of any significant monetary value. Besides which I freely offered to return any and all items ever given to me by her. She keeps things from me to her benefit because she wants them, not for sentimentality. She feels a right to benefit from me. I do not but can't do anything about it as I'm told. People reading these posts may think me petty. Fine. I am tired of being the victim and watching idly by while my ex moves on without any qualms. Where are the rights to protect me from her fraud? I am not an idiot or a dupe. Yet I was scammed and can do nothing about my investment. As I said. I would gladly give back anything given by her to me.

 

[mpizzola]

It may appear through my bitterness that I am looking for pity but I have friends, family, and therapy that serve that enough. I was looking for legal advice. It is true I do not like the answers. Thank you all though for your input, minus the glibness. I will suck it up and rise a above. Just sucks is all. Cheats and liars apparently do in fact prosper. That really irks me...

 

[CSO286]

The difference being she gave me nothing of any significant monetary value. Besides which I freely offered to return any and all items ever given to me by her. She keeps things from me to her benefit because she wants them, not for sentimentality. She feels a right to benefit from me. I do not but can't do anything about it as I'm told. People reading these posts may think me petty. Fine. I am tired of being the victim and watching idly by while my ex moves on without any qualms. Where are the rights to protect me from her fraud? I am not an idiot or a dupe. Yet I was scammed and can do nothing about my investment. As I said. I would gladly give back anything given by her to me.

Your OFFER to return her gifts does not obligate her to extend the same offer to you.

What fraud did she commit?

 

[Silverplum]

The difference being she gave me nothing of any significant monetary value. Besides which I freely offered to return any and all items ever given to me by her. She keeps things from me to her benefit because she wants them, not for sentimentality. She feels a right to benefit from me. I do not but can't do anything about it as I'm told. People reading these posts may think me petty. Fine. I am tired of being the victim and watching idly by while my ex moves on without any qualms. Where are the rights to protect me from her fraud? I am not an idiot or a dupe. Yet I was scammed and can do nothing about my investment. As I said. I would gladly give back anything given by her to me.

You didn't have a "contract" with her to obtain any "monetary value." What you did get was a girlfriend, presumably some of The Sex, and that's it.

In future, save your money for your wife.

 

[mpizzola]

In response to both posts. The fraud was contained by her leading me to believe through word and deed, until the end, that her feelings and fidelity and shared love for me was genuine. That everything I was doing was being done in good faith based on a desire to share a future. She was not simply a high school girlfriend or a fling. We shared an engagement and a household. It was not simply empty sex. I was fooled and played the cool in the end. I accept that I have no legal recourse however it isn't justice. Sorry for the soapbox but it is no real difference to me than fraud or a con played by any common criminal. There may be no precedent set but there should be.

 

[Ohiogal]

In response to both posts. The fraud was contained by her leading me to believe through word and deed, until the end, that her feelings and fidelity and shared love for me was genuine. That everything I was doing was being done in good faith based on a desire to share a future. She was not simply a high school girlfriend or a fling. We shared an engagement and a household. It was not simply empty sex. I was fooled and played the cool in the end. I accept that I have no legal recourse however it isn't justice. Sorry for the soapbox but it is no real difference to me than fraud or a con played by any common criminal. There may be no precedent set but there should be.

Or for anyone who gets married and ends up getting a divorced. No really. Would you have felt better if you had gotten married and then gotten divorced? That would have been a lot more expensive.

 

[Silverplum]

In response to both posts. The fraud was contained by her leading me to believe through word and deed, until the end, that her feelings and fidelity and shared love for me was genuine. That everything I was doing was being done in good faith based on a desire to share a future. She was not simply a high school girlfriend or a fling. We shared an engagement and a household. It was not simply empty sex. I was fooled and played the cool in the end. I accept that I have no legal recourse however it isn't justice. Sorry for the soapbox but it is no real difference to me than fraud or a con played by any common criminal. There may be no precedent set but there should be.

True justice is hard to find. It's also hard to forgive, but I strongly urge you to do so before your anger poisons you.

I mean that very seriously.

 

[ecmst12]

Perhaps at the time, or at least at some point, her feelings were genuine. Sometimes things change, people change. Doesn't mean everything they said or felt before was a lie. Just like at the time you offered the money, it was a gift, but thing changed and now you want to claim it was a loan - that would mean you were lying when you told her it was a gift. You can't change history.

Please get some therapy to help you cope with this loss.

 

[mpizzola]

Would I have felt "better" had we been married and this happened? I can't imagine I would answer yes to that. I've often thought that it should have been the high point of our relationship. Having been just engaged. No real time to "drift apart" or encounter true adversity. This strays from the point of what is right legality to what is morally correct for people. It has been established I have no legal grounds. My serious question is now, SHOULD I? Should there be protections in place for people to not get totally screwed because they base a decision on all reasonable context that a person is in fact what they purport to be? Why is this really so different than Bernie madoff? The money has not sunk me financially. I do ok. The principle and k owl edge that people just get to get away with it though...

 

[mpizzola]

Ecmst12. That is the most accurate account of what has occurred. It was not a loan and I do not believe I was always the mark. I didn't know what she could do. I have been going to therapy but thanks for the concern. No sarcasm. If she is able to change so drastically in her feelings for me, why can I not change in my intentions for money I gave previously? I know it doesn't work that way with the tangible. I can say with complete honesty if the roles were reversed I would feel ethically liable to repay what I could never repay emotionally. Not everyone feels that way I guess.

 

[Silverplum]

Would I have felt "better" had we been married and this happened? I can't imagine I would answer yes to that. I've often thought that it should have been the high point of our relationship. Having been just engaged. No real time to "drift apart" or encounter true adversity. This strays from the point of what is right legality to what is morally correct for people. It has been established I have no legal grounds. My serious question is now, SHOULD I? Should there be protections in place for people to not get totally screwed because they base a decision on all reasonable context that a person is in fact what they purport to be? Why is this really so different than Bernie madoff? The money has not sunk me financially. I do ok. The principle and k owl edge that people just get to get away with it though...

We're not theorists. We deal in the law as it is in order to help people with problems today.

Also, there are protections like those you mention already in place: they are afforded to married people when they divorce. That's because they have created a legal relationship. You just put the cart before the horse and did all sorts of things that were not protected by your engagement.

Seriously, forgive and let it go. Find a new, good girl to love and spoil.

 

[mpizzola]

Yes. Thank you silverplum. Forgiveness is not yet in me considering how little regard I have been shown since our split, but this is a dead horse. I went all in and was so certain. If anything I gained wisdom. I just hope not pessimism. Thank you all, lets let this thread die now...

 

[Ohiogal]

Would I have felt "better" had we been married and this happened? I can't imagine I would answer yes to that. I've often thought that it should have been the high point of our relationship. Having been just engaged. No real time to "drift apart" or encounter true adversity. This strays from the point of what is right legality to what is morally correct for people. It has been established I have no legal grounds. My serious question is now, SHOULD I? Should there be protections in place for people to not get totally screwed because they base a decision on all reasonable context that a person is in fact what they purport to be? Why is this really so different than Bernie madoff? The money has not sunk me financially. I do ok. The principle and k owl edge that people just get to get away with it though...

Consider yourself a gay couple. How do you think they feel in the states that don't allow them to marry?You at least had the option of marrying and getting some protections. You chose not to marry before now.