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Father's Rights - Unborn Child

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rmet4nzkx said:
Good Morning!
A couple of things, all this MT child support may be theory, because jurisdiction in WA, but it may also be leverage.

Please look up the WA child support worksheets and run the numbers there, then your son will know all the options.

Remember in the written materials from last weekend mom or GMA posing as mom, claimed baby didn't need a relationship with dad because she already had a spiritual father and a stepgrandfather, this statement will be seen as a parent unwilling or least likely to allow for the relationship with the other parent, this could be a strong factor in awarding custody and WA courts have given children to the father's before even when the child was well cared for. While not termed alienation, it is a form of aleniation.

Another factor, one admitted in mom's appeal is that she fled to MT because because she had no support in WA and it was meant to be a bridge tempoary, that is an admission that her curent residency in MT is not anticipated to be permenant and she could, based on her history of flight take off somewhere else, protected by another relative, remember her brother joind the USMC and eventually will be stationed somewhere far away from MT and mom could dissappear somewhere unknown to GMA and hidden by another sibling under GMA control. So this history of flight will factor into this as well.

These days a lot of emphasis is placed on the demonstrated behaviors of the parents and their willingness to co parent and to allow the child relaitonships with their other parent.

Insofar as bonding. Until a child is 2-3 they are very flexible in that regard. The better the visitaiton the better any potential transition. In this case, even if dad becomes cp, mom still has a place in WA to stay and have access to the baby. Let me give an expample. My grand daughter was born when both her parents were in the Army. They were both there as were numerous grandoarents, aunts and uncles. Mom breastfeed GD had to return to work at 5 weeks baby had some problems adjusting to formula but after a few different tries found one that worked. GD was held almost constantly. GD had a babysitter that was like a grandmother. Mom was deployed when GD was 6 months old, Dad became the primary caretaker, GD who was already a daddy's girl didn't really miss mom and was in constant communication with her with videos and telephone. Mom returned from deployment just after GD 1st bday then a few weeks alter, Daddy was deployed for 1 month, GD was inconsolable she couldn't sleep and was looking everywhere for her Daddy talking to Daddy on the phone didn't cut it, so for a week or so GD stayed overnight at the babysitters, who was a constant presence in GD life and mom had GD home after work and returned baby to sitters home until GD seemed more comfortable staying home without tears. a few weeks later Daddy returned and life went on. As GD was older there were other periods of time when Daddy was primary caretaker but not the same reactions.

Children are adaptive. In this case, dad is being given visitation separate and apart from mom so baby will bond uniquely with both of them. A part of that bonding will involve other forms of care such as feeding and bathing, that is why mom is fighting that because she knows baby will form an attachment and bond with dad. Baby is and will still be young enough to form attachments to her caretakers for the next 3 years approx. That is why it is important for dad to continue to vigerously exercise his visitaiton and parental rights to the max. The situation in Gramdma's house is toxic, both mom and baby need to be free of that prison no matter how benign the care. I think a GAL will see through the facade especially when mom claims that her extended family is supportive and the GAL gets the true story. Remember, mom is a victim, she has been isolated and has nothing to compare her situation to and that is why she can't handle being a parent when her context is challenged.
You got it!! Want to be the GAL??!!! :p
 


casa said:
It's important to understand that the courts don't like to change custody (Right now Mom has it) unless the other parent can prove unfitness or danger to the child in the current environment. It's an even bigger challenge when the parents were never married.

Your son winding up the CP is not impossible...but I see it happening later down the road, when there is more documentation of her insanity. Right now her behavior could be seen as the same as many new (especially young) mothers. Many grandparents have children and grandchildren moving back home with them- and are taking on co-parenting roles. It's normal for young mothers in that situation to rely and lean on the Gma moreso than independent &/or older mothers.
Oh! I agree! Definitely. In fact, when mom first said she was moving to Gma's, dad felt it WAS the best thing to do if mom was unwilling to accept his help here. Mom, however, told dad that it was a temporary measure (a bridge) but now is saying it will be permanent.

Dad also did not realize Gma was such a nut!!

Let me put it this way: If dad is CP, the first three weeks of his noew role, will include him off of work and and a friend and I helping out with the adjustment. It is neccesary.

We don't dispute her need of help. But not from Gma!! You know, if she moved in with Gpa (her bio-dad), she would have a chance. we wouldn't feel it was the ultimate because the distance would still be there, but at least there would be a half or better chance without Gma there.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I am really concerned that you have some misconception of what alienation is all about.

Alienation between the two parents is relatively expected. The judge expects them to be civil with each other and the follow the court orders, but the judge doesn't expect more....and can't punish either parent for not giving more. Its also not unusual for a grandparent to act as a go between, between the two parents. We all know that grandma is not doing it for altruistic reasons, however the GAL is going to have to believe that as well.

Alienation is damaging the relationship between the parent and child. From about age 0-2 its difficult to practice any real alienation, because the child is simply too young to understand negative things about their parent unless the parent themselves causes that negativity. I can't agree that what is going on now is any form of alienation. It's very likely to turn into alienation down the road, but it isn't that now.

Ok...we all understand that grandma is a kook, and we all understand that grandma alienated the father of her children, and we all know that mom is under grandma's thumb. However I keep trying to look at this from the perspective of someone who has no preconcieved notions of either parent...and who will be looking at things objectively, from the standpoint of the best interest of the child.

Mom left WA while pregnant and believes that Montana should have jurisdiction and mom is fighting for that. There is nothing improper in that. WA took jurisdiction, has made orders, and so far mom has obeyed those orders for the most part while still disputing jurisdiction. Yes, she isn't communicating directly with dad much, yes she did not inform him of a trip to the ER and yes, she's not doing as good a job as she could keeping him informed of the baby's schedule. However, since there was obviously nothing wrong with the child, since its not abnormal for communication to go through a go between, and since its also quite normal for a newborn's schedule to be all over the place...I am not sure that it rises to the level where a judge or GAL would necessarily think that she is doing anything wrong.

Most of the real concern here really isn't about what mom has done...but what everybody is worried is going to happen if mom remains under the thumb of grandma. Its a totally valid concern and I am just as concerned as everybody else.....but unless the GAL gets the same impression of mom and grandma that we all have (independently), it could be problematic.
 
LdiJ said:
I am really concerned that you have some misconception of what alienation is all about.

Alienation between the two parents is relatively expected. The judge expects them to be civil with each other and the follow the court orders, but the judge doesn't expect more....and can't punish either parent for not giving more. Its also not unusual for a grandparent to act as a go between, between the two parents. We all know that grandma is not doing it for altruistic reasons, however the GAL is going to have to believe that as well.

Alienation is damaging the relationship between the parent and child. From about age 0-2 its difficult to practice any real alienation, because the child is simply too young to understand negative things about their parent unless the parent themselves causes that negativity. I can't agree that what is going on now is any form of alienation. It's very likely to turn into alienation down the road, but it isn't that now.

Ok...we all understand that grandma is a kook, and we all understand that grandma alienated the father of her children, and we all know that mom is under grandma's thumb. However I keep trying to look at this from the perspective of someone who has no preconcieved notions of either parent...and who will be looking at things objectively, from the standpoint of the best interest of the child.

Mom left WA while pregnant and believes that Montana should have jurisdiction and mom is fighting for that. There is nothing improper in that. WA took jurisdiction, has made orders, and so far mom has obeyed those orders for the most part while still disputing jurisdiction. Yes, she isn't communicating directly with dad much, yes she did not inform him of a trip to the ER and yes, she's not doing as good a job as she could keeping him informed of the baby's schedule. However, since there was obviously nothing wrong with the child, since its not abnormal for communication to go through a go between, and since its also quite normal for a newborn's schedule to be all over the place...I am not sure that it rises to the level where a judge or GAL would necessarily think that she is doing anything wrong.

Most of the real concern here really isn't about what mom has done...but what everybody is worried is going to happen if mom remains under the thumb of grandma. Its a totally valid concern and I am just as concerned as everybody else.....but unless the GAL gets the same impression of mom and grandma that we all have (independently), it could be problematic.
Thank you! Yes, I agree that the GAL will need to see this the way we see it in order for ANY change in the CP status to take place. I have so many comments to yours but I am so swamped to day. Perhaps tonight I will have more time to elaborate. Thank you again for your thoughts. They are so very helpful.
 
LdiJ said:
I am really concerned that you have some misconception of what alienation is all about.
Actually, six months ago I would not have been to tell you about PAS. These days, it is on my radar! I do understand the difference between mom alienationg dad and a child alienating dad due to mom (PAS) and I agree that this is not happeninf g.....YET!!!! Because of mom's actions since the beginning of the pregnancy, I really have no hope that she will encourage a relationship between dad and baby. Because she is living with Gma, I really have no hope and again, her father, aunt and best friend are the ones that are confirming my suspicions.

LdiJ said:
Ok...we all understand that grandma is a kook, and we all understand that grandma alienated the father of her children, and we all know that mom is under grandma's thumb. However I keep trying to look at this from the perspective of someone who has no preconcieved notions of either parent...and who will be looking at things objectively, from the standpoint of the best interest of the child.
Okay, but isn;t the GAL trained to SEE the warning signs early on. Becuase they ARE there.

LdiJ said:
Most of the real concern here really isn't about what mom has done...but what everybody is worried is going to happen if mom remains under the thumb of grandma. Its a totally valid concern and I am just as concerned as everybody else.....but unless the GAL gets the same impression of mom and grandma that we all have (independently), it could be problematic.
Okay, again, mom IS the concern. Mom is also needing to be controlled. For goodness sake, she states in one of her first statements that dad controlled (or attempted to) her. She is a person that needs to be controlled in order to function. First it was the pastor and now it is her mother. That really is the concern. What happens if she meets some freak out there and moves in with him. At least Gma cares about the baby somewhat. What happens if mom is controlled by this freak of a guy next? What happens to baby then. That really is the concern with mom.

So, here is the question:

How do we get the GAL to see it our way? I am not talking about manipulation. I have wondered about when she interviews my husband and I. Do I have my list out ready to go. Tell her baout dad and his personality tell her about mom and her problems, etc. Or do I sit back and wait for her to ask the questions, "leading" the interview. I certainly do not want to tell her what a kook the other Gma is only to have her think I am one as well. :eek: (Stealth has already gotten that impression and possibly rightfully so since I am on here ranting all the time!) Do you see my point?

Anyway, if anyone has dealt with a GAL and can give us some pointers, it would be great.
 
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