help with wording of visitation paragraph

[asil8170]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa
I have a quick question regarding the way a paragraph, concerning visitation, is written in my divorce decree. Maybe it's more of a question about how an outline is read. Anyway, here goes...there is a paragraph (#3) in my decree that says, "In the event that the parties do not otherwise agree, visitation shall be as follows:" Under paragraph #3 there are paragraphs a, b, c, and d. Paragraph d says that my ex "shall have 1 two-week period or 2 one-week periods of summer visitation. (ex) shall inform (me) of these dates by May 1st. In the event that (ex) does not inform (me) of these dates by May 1st, visitation shall be..." It then goes on to set 2 dates for summer visitation. My question is, even though my ex gives me the dates by the first of May, but I don't agree with those date because my kids already have a fishing trip with my family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) planned, do we go with the dates set by the Judge? I guess, the way I'm reading it, paragraph #3 is the MAIN paragraph concerning visitation and everything following (under) that paragraph is governed by what is stated in that paragraph. So, since I don't agree with the dates my ex has chosen for summer visitation, I assume that we will have to go with the dates set by the court. Am I reading this wrong? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[MominCarolina]

This is my interpretation:

Paragraph 3 is stating the order, unless you can come to an agreement on your own.

Since d (the line in question) is under paragraph 3, your ex has first pick of his 2 weeks. It is specifically stating that unless you agree to some other summer schedule he is to pick his 2 weeks by May 1st.

The only reason you would go for the judges 2 week schedule is if he did not notify you by May 1st.

You could try asking your ex if he would like to switch, but he doesn't have to unless he wants too.

 

[BL]

Was the decree entered into order before you planned this trip ?

If so ,why didn't you get clarification before making plans ?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa
I have a quick question regarding the way a paragraph, concerning visitation, is written in my divorce decree. Maybe it's more of a question about how an outline is read. Anyway, here goes...there is a paragraph (#3) in my decree that says, "In the event that the parties do not otherwise agree, visitation shall be as follows:" Under paragraph #3 there are paragraphs a, b, c, and d. Paragraph d says that my ex "shall have 1 two-week period or 2 one-week periods of summer visitation. (ex) shall inform (me) of these dates by May 1st. In the event that (ex) does not inform (me) of these dates by May 1st, visitation shall be..." It then goes on to set 2 dates for summer visitation. My question is, even though my ex gives me the dates by the first of May, but I don't agree with those date because my kids already have a fishing trip with my family (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) planned, do we go with the dates set by the Judge? I guess, the way I'm reading it, paragraph #3 is the MAIN paragraph concerning visitation and everything following (under) that paragraph is governed by what is stated in that paragraph. So, since I don't agree with the dates my ex has chosen for summer visitation, I assume that we will have to go with the dates set by the court. Am I reading this wrong? Thanks in advance for any help.

I don't think that paragraph "d" falls under the "unless the parties agree" clause.

In my opinion paragraph "d" states that dad gets to choose the two weeks he wants as long as he notifies you by May 1, and if he doesn't notify you by May 1, it goes to the default dates.

You should not have made any plans for the children prior to either May 1, or getting dad's notification.

Your kids aren't going to be able to go on the fishing trip. Next time, tell your family that you cannot commit to any summer plans prior to May 1.

 

[asil8170]

The decree was set in March of '04. The plans, dates, of the fishing trip were made by my brother. His company has a cabin that all employees can use for a week, every other year. I had no say in which dates the fishing trip would take place. The reason I hadn't asked for clarification earlier is that we have never had a conflict before.
Now, my next question is...can I be held in contempt if I don't force the kids to go to thier fathers' house for that week of visitation? The kids are insisting that they want to go fishing instead of taking visitation with their father. And, yes, we've asked him to reschedule and he has refused, even though he has NOTHING planned during summer visitation.

 

[MominCarolina]

The decree was set in March of '04. The plans, dates, of the fishing trip were made by my brother. His company has a cabin that all employees can use for a week, every other year. I had no say in which dates the fishing trip would take place. The reason I hadn't asked for clarification earlier is that we have never had a conflict before.
Now, my next question is...can I be held in contempt if I don't force the kids to go to thier fathers' house for that week of visitation? The kids are insisting that they want to go fishing instead of taking visitation with their father. And, yes, we've asked him to reschedule and he has refused, even though he has NOTHING planned during summer visitation.

Yes it is contempt. Your children should have never known about the fishing trip, or have been told they could go unless Dad had already submitted his 2 weeks, or it was after May 1st.

You have 8 weeks of summer to plan vacations. Dad has 2. Whether or not dad has anything planned is not your business.

 

[Ohiogal]

The decree was set in March of '04. The plans, dates, of the fishing trip were made by my brother. His company has a cabin that all employees can use for a week, every other year. I had no say in which dates the fishing trip would take place. The reason I hadn't asked for clarification earlier is that we have never had a conflict before.
Now, my next question is...can I be held in contempt if I don't force the kids to go to thier fathers' house for that week of visitation? The kids are insisting that they want to go fishing instead of taking visitation with their father. And, yes, we've asked him to reschedule and he has refused, even though he has NOTHING planned during summer visitation.

He doesn't have to reschedule> HE INFORMED YOU by May 1. Hence he gets that time. Yes you can AND SHOULD be held in contempt. Dad trumps brother's employer's fishing trip. Why would you even let the children know about this event before making sure they could go? That was irresponsible on YOUR part.

 

[asil8170]

The kids are aware that this fishing trip occurs every other year, between the last week in May and the end of June. My ex also knows this since he has gone on several of them himself, before the divorce. My brother informs us of the dates as soon as he knows them and we then inform my ex. Not sure how kids should "never known about the fishing trip" or "never been told they could go" when it's EVERYONE'S common knowledge that the trip will take place and the kids will be invited.

 

[MominCarolina]

A simple response to your children should have been "I am not sure we can go, when I find out I will let you know."

 

[Silverplum]

The kids are aware that this fishing trip occurs every other year, between the last week in May and the end of June. My ex also knows this since he has gone on several of them himself, before the divorce. My brother informs us of the dates as soon as he knows them and we then inform my ex. Not sure how kids should "never known about the fishing trip" or "never been told they could go" when it's EVERYONE'S common knowledge that the trip will take place and the kids will be invited.

Clearly, then, it's time to talk with your brother about your responsibility to your court order; and about how you need his support in the form of not winding the children up about a trip they might not be able to attend.

 

[BL]

The kids are aware that this fishing trip occurs every other year, between the last week in May and the end of June. My ex also knows this since he has gone on several of them himself, before the divorce. My brother informs us of the dates as soon as he knows them and we then inform my ex. Not sure how kids should "never known about the fishing trip" or "never been told they could go" when it's EVERYONE'S common knowledge that the trip will take place and the kids will be invited.

Someone already explained to you what to tell the kids .

Re-read the postings .

The decree was made in '04 and you are now just asking about '09.

You tell the kids , this year Dad has decided to utilize visitations as he wishes , and sorry , but have a good time with Dad .

Sort a like fostering the Father/Child(ren) relationship .

 

[asil8170]

As for "fostering the Father/Child(ren) relationship" this whole thing is JUST that. The reason my ex has chosen those dates (and refuses to change them) is that he knows about the fishing trip and knows that the kids want to go. He will "allow" them to go but tell them that they will then only have ONE week with him this summer. My whole purpose here is to find a way for the kids to enjoy their vacation with my family AND, AND!!! still have two weeks with their father...which is in the best interest of the children. The one who needs a lesson on "fostering" is my ex.

 

[Isis1]

As for "fostering the Father/Child(ren) relationship" this whole thing is JUST that. The reason my ex has chosen those dates (and refuses to change them) is that he knows about the fishing trip and knows that the kids want to go. He will "allow" them to go but tell them that they will then only have ONE week with him this summer. My whole purpose here is to find a way for the kids to enjoy their vacation with my family AND, AND!!! still have two weeks with their father...which is in the best interest of the children. The one who needs a lesson on "fostering" is my ex.

nope. dad is entitled to his weekend. even if. stop looking for ways to deny dad.


or, invite dad to go along with you. and STILL give dad his vacation time.

 

[MominCarolina]

You ex is abiding by the court order by requesting his 2 weeks by May 1st.

I agree he should have never made the children feel guilty about the trip, by saying that he could only see them one week if that wasn't the case.

Even though dad was in the wrong, you are too by telling the children they could go before getting his visitation dates.

Since he is accusing you of only allowing him one week, I would write him a letter or email stating:

Ex,

I think there has been some confusion about the summer visitation schedule. I know you submitted your 2 weeks by May 1st. I wanted to let you know that there is a fishing trip that I would like to take the kids on, and it does fall within the 2 weeks you requested.

I do understand that this is your time, but I would like for you to hear me out on switching up the weeks to accommodate everyone. I would like to offer you 3 weeks total visitation in the summer, in lieu of allowing me to take the kids on the fishing trip.

This would give you an extra week visitation as well as allowing me to take the kids fishing. What do you think?

You

This shows that you are trying to work with him, and there is a little give and take. If you are not willing to give him 3 weeks, don't bother writing the letter and leave it alone.

If he is not willing to take your offer, again, there isn't much you can do.

 

[asil8170]

I'm NOT trying to "deny dad." Was my last post confusing? I'm trying to MAKE SURE that the kids get their 2 weeks with their dad this summer!!! I would even like to promote MORE time with him. It's the ex that wants less time with the kids (actually, it's more his wife's idea.) But, I also want to TRY to make sure that the kids don't miss something that they've been looking forward to since the "Fishing Trip of '07." As for asking him to go with us...been there, done that. The reason that I would have liked to have gone with the Judge's dates is that the kids could have the "best of both worlds," vacation with family AND 2 weeks of summer visitation with their father. If that's not "fostering the Father/Child(ren) relationship" and attempting to do what's best for the children, I don't know what is.