How to go about pressing 5th Amendment violation?

[RRevak]

SMH

Cop: I think you killed that guy last night.
Suspect: No - I was in Vegas and have hundreds of people who can verify that.
Cop: I don't believe you.
Suspect: Then I'd like to speak to an attorney.

And if the events are as OP says they are do you really believe it would have stopped there? One of my professors back in my undergrad days was a detective for the Sheriffs dept. One of the things (along with another professor I had who was a federal defense attorney for the state and previously for NY) they made abundantly clear was that in an interrogation situation one does NOT disclose details of ANY nature without having an attorney present. It actually became quite a long lecture as to how one simple "I was at...." can become a wealth of self incriminating information before one even realizes what happened. We were all told just to not speak and ask for council due to situations just as OP describes. Again, they are not our friends and are not on our sides so it is not up to us to do their jobs.

 

[RRevak]

While not our friends, nor are they the enemy. There is no way on Earth that the OP telling the police that he was in Vegas and can prove it can harm the OP, unless of course it isn't true.

Choosing to speak is not a failure to asset one's rights. Inherent in the right to remain silent is the right not to.

Your goal appears to be in and of itself not to cooperate with the police. Mine would be to get out of the police station no longer a suspect by the quickest means possible.

Yes they are in fact our enemy. They are there to make an arrest and solve a crime. They are not there to hold our hands or play nice. They are there to do a job and that job isn't always done with fairness and honesty. I don't believe for one minute that OP would have "gotten out of the station no longer a suspect" if he had disclosed his location at the time of the incident. He asked for an attorney and that request was subsequently ignored. So how well exactly do you think things would have gone if he had made his whereabouts known if they didn't even bother to respond to his request for council?

 

[CdwJava]

I am utterly speechless at the bolded. Why in the WORLD would anyone NOT want to invoke the rights given to them by our laws and constitution so as to make the job of someone who is NOT out for their favor easier?

I suppose if you'd rather spend a few hours in an interview room, that's your call. I HAVE been on the other end of a police investigation in my youth, and I was entirely forthcoming and it clearly made the difference between my being cleared and my going to jail. But, if you want to do thing the hard way, have at it.

Cops are NOT our friends. Detectives are NOT our friends.

Yeah - damn cops! Who neds 'em anyway!

Interrogations are NOT going to be "oh well you were in Vegas so have a nice day". If you truly believe OP should have just waived any rights in order for THEM to do THEIR jobs then you are part of what is sorely wrong with our judicial system. I apologize if that offends but the bolded coming from a law enforcement officer scares the heck outta me.

There are a great many things that people CAN do that are stupid and counterproductive. I prefer to travel a life of least resistance - I have enough resistance at work, I don't need one all the time. I don't keep that chip on my shoulder because I don't need it. I don't think the world is out to get me. To live in THAT world would be quite miserable.

 

[Zigner]

Yes they are in fact our enemy. They are there to make an arrest and solve a crime.

For most crimes there is a victim. Are you saying they are also the enemy of the victim?

Still SMH

 

[CdwJava]

Yeah ... the enemy ... tell that to the grandmother of the molested three year old I babysat all flippin' night, and the tears she cried, and the extra miles I traveled to stay with her and her grandbaby. Yeah, I was her enemy - and her childs. I was so desperate to make an arrest I forgot all about them <NOT!> and ran off to make an arrest ...

Oh, yeah, I didn't make an arrest. Why? Because I'm waiting for the FACTS! A rush to judgement is poor policing and makes for a crappy case that is easily lost!

So, DON'T TELL ME that I'm the "enemy." if you want to live in a world without policing, the border's south of the Rio Grande - good luck!

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

Yes they are in fact our enemy. They are there to make an arrest and solve a crime.

These two sentences are in no way related, unless one believes cops in general are interested only in getting cases off their plate without regard to the truth.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

And if the events are as OP says they are do you really believe it would have stopped there?

No, they would investigate the claim, find that it was true, and kick him loose.

Do YOU really believe that the cops would say, "Well, he is innocent, but we'll try to pin it on him for our convenience"?

 

[TigerD]

Yeah ... the enemy ... tell that to the grandmother of the molested three year old I babysat all flippin' night, and the tears she cried, and the extra miles I traveled to stay with her and her grandbaby. Yeah, I was her enemy - and her childs. I was so desperate to make an arrest I forgot all about them <NOT!> and ran off to make an arrest ...

In any field, there are good people and bad people. There are a lot of bad cops out there. But there are more good cops. Everything I have seen of your postings over the years leads me to believe that you are one of the good ones.

That said, nobody should talk to the police without an attorney. And then, only a very precious few should speak at all. Thee is too much risk and no reward.

TD

 

[RRevak]

Yeah ... the enemy ... tell that to the grandmother of the molested three year old I babysat all flippin' night, and the tears she cried, and the extra miles I traveled to stay with her and her grandbaby. Yeah, I was her enemy - and her childs. I was so desperate to make an arrest I forgot all about them <NOT!> and ran off to make an arrest ...

Oh, yeah, I didn't make an arrest. Why? Because I'm waiting for the FACTS! A rush to judgement is poor policing and makes for a crappy case that is easily lost!

So, DON'T TELL ME that I'm the "enemy." if you want to live in a world without policing, the border's south of the Rio Grande - good luck!

I'm not saying you're the enemy. I'm not saying cops in general are our enemies. I have a deep appreciation for law enforcement officers as i've been on the receiving end of help from some really good cops and also have quite a few good friends who are good cops. What I am against is when cops start saying that people should just waive their rights because its easier. There are a great many wonderful cops out there but there are also quite a few who have a blatant disregard for our laws and would rather people just do what they're told regardless of whether its right. I believe you might be a great cop who cares for people and takes his job seriously enough to care for others. But you must know that there are others who don't see things the same way you do.

 

[RRevak]

In any field, there are good people and bad people. There are a lot of bad cops out there. But there are more good cops. Everything I have seen of your postings over the years leads me to believe that you are one of the good ones.

That said, nobody should talk to the police without an attorney. And then, only a very precious few should speak at all. Thee is too much risk and no reward.

TD

You put it better than I.

 

[Zigner]

I'm not saying you're the enemy. I'm not saying cops in general are our enemies.

Just a few minutes ago, you very strongly stated just the opposite:

Yes they are in fact our enemy. They are there to make an arrest and solve a crime. They are not there to hold our hands or play nice. They are there to do a job and that job isn't always done with fairness and honesty.

 

[CdwJava]

I simply don't believe in being obstinate for obstinate's sake. It inconvenience ME, not the officer. When i was brought in by the police when i was younger, I could have been a yutz and invoked my rights. But, ya know, they had sufficient probable cause to have booked me. Instead, my cooperation allowed them to clear the matter up and I was cleared. Yeah, I coulda gone to jail on principle, but, why??? The cop wouldn't have been bothered, he had paperwork to do anyway. *I* would have been the one suffering. So, i chose to waive my rights and answer their questions, provide writing exemplars, and give everything I could in order to clear me. Ya know what, it worked! And I wasn't special - my parents didn't have money, I had no position or influence, etc.

Bottom line is that all because someone CAN do something doesn't mean that they must. You can choose to do something different. Choice is a wonderful thing.

 

[RRevak]

Just a few minutes ago, you very strongly stated just the opposite:

In my area many cops are definitely not friends. I'm not in the habit of making a cops job easier. I'm going to cooperate within the scope of the law i'm allowed to cooperate in. I'm not going to cooperate within scopes I don't have to. Nobody should. If i'm pulled over for a traffic stop i'm going to cooperate and do the things i'm supposed to do. If it goes beyond that then i'm going to push for the rights I know I have. I've heard of instances of our own local cops taking advantage of people, esp young people, for things such as searches and seizures. If those are friends then I'd hate to see enemies.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

That said, nobody should talk to the police without an attorney. And then, only a very precious few should speak at all. Thee is too much risk and no reward.

TD

For every rule, there are exceptions. In this case (which I'm not convinced is real), the OP would likely be on the street no longer a suspect far sooner than it would take a lawyer to get there. There are cases where quite literally, the truth shall set you free. This is one.

 

[RRevak]

I simply don't believe in being obstinate for obstinate's sake. It inconvenience ME, not the officer. When i was brought in by the police when i was younger, I could have been a yutz and invoked my rights. But, ya know, they had sufficient probable cause to have booked me. Instead, my cooperation allowed them to clear the matter up and I was cleared. Yeah, I coulda gone to jail on principle, but, why??? The cop wouldn't have been bothered, he had paperwork to do anyway. *I* would have been the one suffering. So, i chose to waive my rights and answer their questions, provide writing exemplars, and give everything I could in order to clear me. Ya know what, it worked! And I wasn't special - my parents didn't have money, I had no position or influence, etc.

Bottom line is that all because someone CAN do something doesn't mean that they must. You can choose to do something different. Choice is a wonderful thing.

Except nowadays things don't always go so easily. Which is why its best to just say nothing until an attorney is present who can better articulate relevant facts and details without a "suspect" becoming entangled in a system that is not there to make his/her life easy.