impugning income question

[sotiredofit]

What is the name of your state? I'm in california.

I have a OSC scheduled for next month in which my ex is the petitioner. I had been married to him for 10 years and we have two children (14 and 10). We were divorced in 2004. He is asking that child support be cut or reduced because his private disability has been "suddenly" cut off (he says...). I do not have a lawyer. I went to the court facilitaor (lawyer) and she prepared a subpoena for me where I am requesting that my ex send the court all conversations, records, records of payments, etc. to the court for the hearing.

Facts in the case.

1) The ex was a mortgage loan officer and last year at his job, he made $155K. He went out in 2004 on private disability. I don't know the formal diagnosis, but in his order to show cause declaration that was served on me, the ex said it was nerve damage.

2) He had been receiving $5600 a month since 2004 on this private disability claim. He told me he was only getting $4200 a month and me being gullible believed him and made a child support stipulation in which I agreed to accept $2k a month. Based on CA guidelines I should have been receiving between 2600 and 2800 because I wasn't working (was going to school). Thus he's a liar and a cheat.

3) He stated on his declaration for OSC that he is going to start a new business and he estimates the income at 2-3K per month. That would substantially reduce my support.

4) His new wife makes 2k per month with an inhome daycare business.

5) They just bought a brand new home with a mortgage payment of 1,579.

6) I have two degrees (bachelor and Master's), but have only worked sporadically. If I get a job, I will be starting out at least 4k, but for now, I work as a sub teacher. I've only made 1k a month tops in the last year. If that. I just graduated in May with the Masters. I have not been working much because I don't feel well, sick, chronic aches and pains. BUT I have been actively looking for work in the field I've gotten my degree in.

Here are my questions:

1) I am asking that the judge impugn income to my ex of 155K (last earnings at last job before he went out on disability) If not, then impugn income of $5600 per month that he was getting on disability. My argument is that if the disability cut him off, he isable to work and he refuses to find a job that will pay him comparable (remember he wants to start up a new business). How likely is it that a judge will do this for me??

2) will the judge impugn income to me? Will it be minimum wage since I have been a stay-at-home mom for 10 years raising our children before I went back to school? Or will it be more do to the fact I now have a master's degree?

Please help me. I don't money for a lawyer. But, found a low-cost legal aid program and have an appt. with one on Monday. That's one good thing.

 

[Ohiogal]

1

) I am asking that the judge impugn income to my ex of 155K (last earnings at last job before he went out on disability) If not, then impugn income of $5600 per month that he was getting on disability. My argument is that if the disability cut him off, he isable to work and he refuses to find a job that will pay him comparable (remember he wants to start up a new business). How likely is it that a judge will do this for me??

If he is disabled then he can't work. And sometimes private disability runs out. But you need to know why he was "cut off" from it as you put it. Though I find it interesting that you have not worked because

I have not been working much because I don't feel well, sick, chronic aches and pains.

And therefore you have only earned $1000 a month or so but when he was on disability his $4k disability is not enough for you. Go figure that.

2) will the judge impugn income to me?

Most likely.

Will it be minimum wage since I have been a stay-at-home mom for 10 years raising our children before I went back to school? Or will it be more do to the fact I now have a master's degree?

It will be based on your earning potential. Which means dealing with the fact that you have a master's degree and can earn accoridng to you $4k a month.

 

[sotiredofit]

1

If he is disabled then he can't work. And sometimes private disability runs out. But you need to know why he was "cut off" from it as you put it. Though I find it interesting that you have not worked because

And therefore you have only earned $1000 a month or so but when he was on disability his $4k disability is not enough for you. Go figure that.



Most likely.


It will be based on your earning potential. Which means dealing with the fact that you have a master's degree and can earn accoridng to you $4k a month.

I can accept that, but do you think it's likely the judge impugn income to my ex? And at what amount?

 

[Ohiogal]

I can accept that, but do you think it's likely the judge impugn income to my ex? And at what amount?

I can't guess at what amount he will be imputed. But his wife's income doesn't matter. And based on your other post regarding your attack of your husband and his wife -- you will be lucky if you are not punished for your role in the whole fiasco. You seem to want to "get" your husband and make him pay and pay. That is NOT a mature attitude.

 

[sotiredofit]

I understand that I was NOT acting mature. It feels like you are harsh with me, maybe I deserve that I don't know. If you knew what I went through with this man, you wold understand. I was unhappy for the whole 10 years of my marriage. Verbal, physical, psychological abuse constantly. The physical abuse came when I "challenged" him too much. On our second date, he looked across me at the restaurant table and said, "Look at your f*cking stomach! Don't eat those potatoes. Order some fruit". I was and am not overweight by any stretch of the imagination. I weigh 125 and my weight has fluctuated by only 5 pounds either way all my life.

In 2004, at 6:00 am in the morning, I caught him taking his things out of our apartment., We were supposed to get a home for our kids to be raised in. Had agreed on it for years. The morning he left, he received his first commission check for $15,000 net money. By 9:00am that morning, he had opened up a new bank account-without my name on it- and arranged to move in with a roommate. When he came back that night to visit the kids and tell them he was moving out, I told him since he was leaving us and was making the big money now, I needed a 20% down payment to get us a house and for him to sign for it. He glared at me, and stood in our kitchen and called me a "greedy b*tch" in front of our two boys while I stood there and cried.

We never could save for anything, because he was always leaving and getting apartments and blowing our money. I raised his kids. Then when he hit it big and there was a chance for us to get a house, he took the money and left. I was smart enough to go back to school during this time and get my degrees.

I don't understand why you are defending him. If he got cut off from disability that means he is able to work. Or maybe not. I guess you think I shouldn't get any more payments from him when he sees his kids 2 days total out of a month.

whatever the case, I appreciate your advice because I need to be prepared when I go to court. I guess because I barely hit him, that is more important than the fact he almost killed me-by purposely smothering me. If I was dead would you feel different? Would you still feel I deserved it?

 

[CourtClerk]

I understand that I was NOT acting mature. It feels like you are harsh with me, maybe I deserve that I don't know.
yeah, you do
If you knew what I went through with this man, you wold understand.
not really
I was unhappy for the whole 10 years of my marriage.
leave next time
Verbal, physical, psychological abuse constantly.
and something in you told you it was ok...
The physical abuse came when I "challenged" him too much. On our second date, he looked across me at the restaurant table and said, "Look at your f*cking stomach! Don't eat those potatoes. Order some fruit".
YET YOU MARRIED HIM ANYWAY!!!! Which means there was something wrong with you way before you got married to have him speak to you in that fashion and you continue to date him.
I was and am not overweight by any stretch of the imagination. I weigh 125 and my weight has fluctuated by only 5 pounds either way all my life.
So what if you were??? Tell him to go to h*ll

In 2004, at 6:00 am in the morning, I caught him taking his things out of our apartment., We were supposed to get a home for our kids to be raised in. Had agreed on it for years. The morning he left, he received his first commission check for $15,000 net money. By 9:00am that morning, he had opened up a new bank account-without my name on it- and arranged to move in with a roommate. When he came back that night to visit the kids and tell them he was moving out, I told him since he was leaving us and was making the big money now, I needed a 20% down payment to get us a house and for him to sign for it.
any reason why you couldn't do it?
He glared at me, and stood in our kitchen and called me a "greedy b*tch" in front of our two boys while I stood there and cried.
you need to toughen up
We never could save for anything, because he was always leaving and getting apartments and blowing our money. I raised his kids.
you raised YOUR collective children
Then when he hit it big and there was a chance for us to get a house, he took the money and left. I was smart enough to go back to school during this time and get my degrees.
good... buy your own house
I don't understand why you are defending him.
no one is defending him... you just can't handle the truth
If he got cut off from disability that means he is able to work. Or maybe not. I guess you think I shouldn't get any more payments from him when he sees his kids 2 days total out of a month.
you can't get blood out of a rock. in fact, you mentioned nothing about receiving nothing... i can tell you some stories about receiving nothing. you need to be greatful you're getting anything
whatever the case, I appreciate your advice because I need to be prepared when I go to court. I guess because I barely hit him, that is more important than the fact he almost killed me-by purposely smothering me. If I was dead would you feel different? Would you still feel I deserved it?

<-- cry me a river already


Sorry about all the stuff you went through... but none of that is remotely relevant to the issue of child support. OG isn't defending him... she's giving you the legal reality.

 

[nextwife]

It's doubtful even if he were WELL and not working, a MORTGAGE lender, in today's market, would be imputed what they made last year. I have a friend who owned one of the premier mortgage banker operations here, in business since 1986, and he filed bankrupcy last week. The nations largest mortgage companies are cutting off programs, jobs, etc.

The mortgage industry has TANKED.

 

[Ohiogal]

CC already said most of it but in case it did not sink in

I understand that I was NOT acting mature.

Good so when are you going to take responsibility for your violence?

It feels like you are harsh with me, maybe I deserve that I don't know.

Its not harsh but truth!

If you knew what I went through with this man, you wold understand. I was unhappy for the whole 10 years of my marriage.

Then you should have left anytime during that ten years.

Verbal, physical, psychological abuse constantly. The physical abuse came when I "challenged" him too much

So why did you stay?

On our second date, he looked across me at the restaurant table and said, "Look at your f*cking stomach! Don't eat those potatoes. Order some fruit". I was and am not overweight by any stretch of the imagination. I weigh 125 and my weight has fluctuated by only 5 pounds either way all my life.

So what was wrong with you that someone said that to you on your SECOND DATE and you didn't dump him immediately? Why did you continue to see him and then MARRY him and have CHILDREN with him if on the SECOND date he did that? Have you received treatment for your problems?

In 2004, at 6:00 am in the morning, I caught him taking his things out of our apartment., We were supposed to get a home for our kids to be raised in. Had agreed on it for years. The morning he left, he received his first commission check for $15,000 net money. By 9:00am that morning, he had opened up a new bank account-without my name on it- and arranged to move in with a roommate. When he came back that night to visit the kids and tell them he was moving out, I told him since he was leaving us and was making the big money now, I needed a 20% down payment to get us a house and for him to sign for it.

And why do you believe he owed you that money? When you divorce you are entitled to half the marital assets and half the marital debt. So did you also say you would take the same proportion of debt as the money you were demanding? Or did you believe he should have all of that?

He glared at me, and stood in our kitchen and called me a "greedy b*tch" in front of our two boys while I stood there and cried.

Poor baby. Does that excuse him? No. But it also doesn't excuse you. Why weren't you working? Why weren't you contributing and saving as well?

We never could save for anything, because he was always leaving and getting apartments and blowing our money.

OUR money? What about the money you earned? How much did you earn? Was that "our" money as well? Or was just his income "our money"? And when he left the first time why didn't you file for divorce? Why did you PUT UP WITH IT? What was in it for you? Why did that work for you? What were you getting out of it?

I raised his kids. Then when he hit it big and there was a chance for us to get a house, he took the money and left. I was smart enough to go back to school during this time and get my degrees.

Oh okay. During this last time that he left you went to school but what did you do during the previous times?

I don't understand why you are defending him.

I am not defending him. I am trying to make you wake up and get out of your self pity mode.

If he got cut off from disability that means he is able to work. Or maybe not.

Not necessarily.

I guess you think I shouldn't get any more payments from him when he sees his kids 2 days total out of a month.

Who said he shouldn't pay child support? But I notice you are trying to maximize his contribution and minimize your financial contribution. Smacks of pettiness and vengeance.

whatever the case, I appreciate your advice because I need to be prepared when I go to court. I guess because I barely hit him, that is more important than the fact he almost killed me-by purposely smothering me.

You "barely" hit him? In your opinion. Guess what -- in the eyes of the court that DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is YOU started it! Then when he and his wife were leaving you attacked again by trying to open her car door. You were on a rampage. You couldn't have the maturity and brains to just walk away and leave it alone. Nope. You had to put your hands on him first. You attacked. Then you are trying to justify your violence -- which happened FIRST. And last.

If I was dead would you feel different? Would you still feel I deserved it?

QUOTE]
That stupidity does not even deserve a response. You need to grow up and get help.

 

[sotiredofit]

So why did you stay?

Because I was used to the abuse, my parents had abused me verbally and emotionally for years. If you don't believe that, that's your choice.

So what was wrong with you that someone said that to you on your SECOND DATE and you didn't dump him immediately? Why did you continue to see him and then MARRY him and have CHILDREN with him if on the SECOND date he did that? Have you received treatment for your problems?

Because it was better treatment than I was getting by my family.

And why do you believe he owed you that money? When you divorce you are entitled to half the marital assets and half the marital debt. So did you also say you would take the same proportion of debt as the money you were demanding? Or did you believe he should have all of that?

We didn't have any debt. No credit cards together.

Poor baby. Does that excuse him? No. But it also doesn't excuse you. Why weren't you working? Why weren't you contributing and saving as well?

I told you I was a stay-at-home-mom. We (that's me and him) didn't want the kids in daycare. So, what are you going to do now?? Slam all the mothers who want to raise their children themselves and keep them out of daycare??

OUR money? What about the money you earned? How much did you earn? Was that "our" money as well? Or was just his income "our money"? And when he left the first time why didn't you file for divorce? Why did you PUT UP WITH IT? What was in it for you? Why did that work for you? What were you getting out of it?

Yeah, OUR money. I took care of the kids and house. That is a valuable, hard, demanding job. Do you have kids?

Oh okay. During this last time that he left you went to school but what did you do during the previous times?

I had a minimum wage job the few times I did work. Right after I married him I got preganant. Both our choiced before you critisize me about that. Our son was born the next year.

Who said he shouldn't pay child support? But I notice you are trying to maximize his contribution and minimize your financial contribution. Smacks of pettiness and vengeance.

I don't disagree here.

You "barely" hit him? In your opinion. Guess what -- in the eyes of the court that DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is YOU started it! Then when he and his wife were leaving you attacked again by trying to open her car door. You were on a rampage. You couldn't have the maturity and brains to just walk away and leave it alone. Nope. You had to put your hands on him first. You attacked. Then you are trying to justify your violence -- which happened FIRST. And last.

When are you gong to address the fact I was smothered. Does that not matter to a court of law, ohiogal?

And you won't say much about his disability issue. What if he is able to work. I think he wants to become voluntary underemployed. He spends 5% of the time with the kids, don't I have a right to investigate if he can or can't work?

 

[Ohiogal]

Because I was used to the abuse, my parents had abused me verbally and emotionally for years. If you don't believe that, that's your choice.

Never said I didn't believe it but you need to take responsibility for YOUR CHOICES.

Because it was better treatment than I was getting by my family.

So you chose to go from one abusive relationship to another. Why didn't you try standing alone for a while? Just move out of your parents house and cut ties with them and have your own job and own place.

We didn't have any debt. No credit cards together.

Debt is more than just credit cards. But good on no credit cards. So half the MARITAL assets are yours.

I told you I was a stay-at-home-mom. We (that's me and him) didn't want the kids in daycare. So, what are you going to do now?? Slam all the mothers who want to raise their children themselves and keep them out of daycare??

You have to deal with the choices you made. YOu can work. What is your choice for staying home now? Not working now? Not having income now?

Yeah, OUR money. I took care of the kids and house. That is a valuable, hard, demanding job. Do you have kids?

Quite frankly none of your business if I have kids. However while you are entitled to half the assets you have no right to state give me 20% for the downpayment on a house.

I had a minimum wage job the few times I did work. Right after I married him I got preganant. Both our choiced before you critisize me about that. Our son was born the next year.

I don't care that you chose to have children. HOWEVER both of you are responsible for financially supporting those children.

I don't disagree here.

Nice to know that you are not disagreeing that you are being petty and vindictive as this is what you are not disagreeing with:

Who said he shouldn't pay child support? But I notice you are trying to maximize his contribution and minimize your financial contribution. Smacks of pettiness and vengeance.

If you maximize his contributions you should maximize yours. Your character is not one that is full of integrity.

When are you gong to address the fact I was smothered. Does that not matter to a court of law, ohiogal?

If you were smothered you would be dead. So you were not smothered. His actions could be chocked up to self defense and defense of a third person. Here is the thing -- people have a tendency to underplay what they did (a light tap) and overexaggerate what the other party did. That is what people do.Taken in context, after he "smothered" you, you turned around and chased his ex wife to the car and tried to open her car door. Thus continuing the attack. When are YOU going to face facts?

And you won't say much about his disability issue. What if he is able to work.

Prove that he is able to work.

I think he wants to become voluntary underemployed. He spends 5% of the time with the kids, don't I have a right to investigate if he can or can't work?

Prove that he wants to become voluntary underemployed. You have a right to investigate it but you need to be able to prove it.

 

[sotiredofit]

Prove that he wants to become voluntary underemployed. You have a right to investigate it but you need to be able to prove it.

He stated in his declaration for the OSC for modification of child support that he purchased 3 inflatable jumpers and is going into business for himself. The jumpers are for birthday parties that 95% of the time happen during the weekends. That means that during M-F, he will not be working and earning income.

By going into business for himself he can minimize he true income quite easily. That concerns me.

When I said he was becoming voluntarily employed, it's because he stated on the declaration that he estimates his income from this new business to be from 2k-3k per month. Actually, that probably will be enough for him because his wife has income of 2k from an in-home daycare. That however, will not be benefitting the children I have with him.

I have a credential in education and have been applying for jobs since I graduated in May. I apply online on edjoin and have been looking and applying for anywhere within driving distance. I have applied for between 15 and 20 positions so far without any luck.


I also take issue with the fact that you said since I am not dead, he didn't smother me. That does not make sense, Ohiogal. Smothering someone is doing just that, just because he happened to let me up before he killed me does not mean he was not withholding air from me. That's the definition for "smothering". Are you going to dispute that? By your logic if a man walked up to a woman and proceeded to put his hands around her neck and squeeze (i.e. strangling her), according to you he really wouldn't be strangling her if someone stepped in or he took his hands off before she died...Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!! that you would sit up here and deny domestic violence/spousal abuse. Women are dying from this every day and with your words you make it the woman's fault and somehow ok: I hit my husband on the back of the head, so it gives him the right to cut off my breathing. that is an immediate threat of death. How could you ever justify that??Sick.

I understand how you are trying to make me see my part in it. I get it. I should not have touched him. Fine. But, you sure as heck are turning a blind eye to a man smothering a woman, someone smaller than he is, who does not have half the strenght. I could not defend myself while down on the ground, I couldn't get his hands off me, I couldn't breathe. That's ok for him to do to me according to you, you should be deeply ashamed!!!

 

[Silverplum]

DID you file a police report for the smothering??

 

[sotiredofit]

DID you file a police report for the smothering??

Yes, I did. It was going to be filed with the district attorney for prosecution against my ex. But, here's the thing. The district attorney sent it back to the police for further investigation. I requested a supplemental report to be taken to get my kids' testimony. The police on the scene did not take it, because he said it wasn't good to have kids testify against their father.

Well, the officer that came out and took the report twisted the kid's words to make it look like I was the aggressor. For instance, here's a leading question the cop asked my kid: "Do you think your father was trying to break up the fight between your mother and stepmother?" My sons' response was, "I think so. Why else would he be getting out of the car?" That's leading. Instead of asking the kids to state only what they saw the cop that took the supplemental report asked the kids to interject their opinions. Not fair.

My sons are and always have been intimidted by their father. They are scared to and do not want to say anything that will cause him harm.

So, now, I don't know if the police will file this case with the DA's office or not, or just throw it out. And I did not tell the police I tried to open her door and after they let me up went and tried to open it again.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yes, I did. It was going to be filed with the district attorney for prosecution against my ex. But, here's the thing. The district attorney sent it back to the police for further investigation. I requested a supplemental report to be taken to get my kids' testimony. The police on the scene did not take it, because he said it wasn't good to have kids testify against their father.

It is not good.

Well, the officer that came out and took the report twisted the kid's words to make it look like I was the aggressor.

To make it LOOK LIKE you were the aggressor? YOU WERE THE AGGRESSOR!

For instance, here's a leading question the cop asked my kid: "Do you think your father was trying to break up the fight between your mother and stepmother?" My sons' response was, "I think so. Why else would he be getting out of the car?" That's leading.

That is allowed!

Instead of asking the kids to state only what they saw the cop that took the supplemental report asked the kids to interject their opinions. Not fair.

Poor baby.

My sons are and always have been intimidted by their father. They are scared to and do not want to say anything that will cause him harm.

Really? prove it. Or maybe it is because they LOVE their father.

So, now, I don't know if the police will file this case with the DA's office or not, or just throw it out. And I did not tell the police I tried to open her door and after they let me up went and tried to open it again.

Then you lied to them. Because you told us you tried to do that. Nice going. You have just broken the law again. And YOU want sympathy?

 

[Ohiogal]

He stated in his declaration for the OSC for modification of child support that he purchased 3 inflatable jumpers and is going into business for himself. The jumpers are for birthday parties that 95% of the time happen during the weekends. That means that during M-F, he will not be working and earning income.

Bull. You do not know that. And you guarantee that birthday parties happen 95% of the time during the weekend?

By going into business for himself he can minimize he true income quite easily. That concerns me.

Hey you minimize yours.

When I said he was becoming voluntarily employed, it's because he stated on the declaration that he estimates his income from this new business to be from 2k-3k per month. Actually, that probably will be enough for him because his wife has income of 2k from an in-home daycare. That however, will not be benefitting the children I have with him.

he will still have to pay child support -- just not as much as your petty vindictive self wants him to.

I have a credential in education and have been applying for jobs since I graduated in May. I apply online on edjoin and have been looking and applying for anywhere within driving distance. I have applied for between 15 and 20 positions so far without any luck.

What degree do you have in education?

I also take issue with the fact that you said since I am not dead, he didn't smother me. That does not make sense, Ohiogal. Smothering someone is doing just that, just because he happened to let me up before he killed me does not mean he was not withholding air from me. That's the definition for "smothering". Are you going to dispute that? By your logic if a man walked up to a woman and proceeded to put his hands around her neck and squeeze (i.e. strangling her), according to you he really wouldn't be strangling her if someone stepped in or he took his hands off before she died...Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!

It is unbelievable that you still believe you had a right to start the fight.

that you would sit up here and deny domestic violence/spousal abuse.

Nope. Not denying domestic violence. You committed it on him.

Women are dying from this every day and with your words you make it the woman's fault and somehow ok: I hit my husband on the back of the head, so it gives him the right to cut off my breathing. that is an immediate threat of death. How could you ever justify that??Sick.

Nope. Not sick. Never said he had a right to cut off your breathing.

I understand how you are trying to make me see my part in it. I get it. I should not have touched him. Fine. But, you sure as heck are turning a blind eye to a man smothering a woman, someone smaller than he is, who does not have half the strenght. I could not defend myself while down on the ground, I couldn't get his hands off me, I couldn't breathe. That's ok for him to do to me according to you, you should be deeply ashamed!!!

Nope. I am not ashamed. You on the other hand are shameful.