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DRN

Guest
"cite your case law that states that credible cicumstantial evidence does not carry the same weight as direct evidence if direct evidence is not present."

Okay, I'll give it a shot. But my original statement did not say "credible circumstantial evidence if direct evidence is not present." My statement was that circumstantial evidence does not carry the same weight as direct evidence.

Direct Evidence: 1. Evidence that is based on personal knowledge or observation and that, if true,
proves a fact without inference or presumption. Black’s Law Dictionary, 7th Edition, West Group, page 577

Circumstantial Evidence: 1. Evidence based on inference and not on personal knowledge or observation.
2. All evidence that is not given by testimony. Black’s Law Dictionary, 7th Edition, West Group, page 576



MARTIN v. D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPT., 812 F.2d 1425 (D.C. Cir. 1987) stated in pertinent part:

[33] We set out, as best as we can capture it, that more demanding standard. Where the defendant's
subjective intent is an essential component of plaintiff's claim, once defendant has moved for pretrial judgment based on a showing of the objective reasonableness of his actions, then plaintiff, to avert dismissal short of trial, must come forward with something more than inferential or circumstantial support for his allegation of unconstitutional motive. That is, some direct evidence
that the officials' actions were improperly motivated must be produced if the case is to proceed to
trial. See Harris, 642 F.Supp. at 1066.

or

ARIZONA v. FULMINANTE, 499 U.S. 279 (1991) stated in pertinent part:

“(a) A defendant's confession is like no other evidence. It is probably the most probative and damaging evidence that can be admitted against him, and, if it is a full confession, a jury may be
tempted to rely on it alone in reaching its decision. The risk that a coerced confession is unreliable, coupled with the profound impact that it has upon the jury, requires a reviewing court to exercise extreme caution before determining that the confession's admission was harmless. Pp. 295-296.

(b) The evidence shows that the State has failed to meet its burden. First, the transcript reveals that both the trial court and the State recognized that a successful prosecution depended on the jury's believing both confessions, since it is unlikely that the physical and circumstantial evidence alone would have been sufficient to convict.”
 


C

confused1111

Guest
good to see there's actually some helpfull people on this site
 

stephenk

Senior Member
Crawford-El v. Britton, 93 F.3d 813, C.A.D.C.,1996.
Decided Aug. 27, 1996.

In damage action for constitutional tort, there is no requirement that plaintiff plead government official's unconstitutional intent with specific, discernible facts or offers of proof that constitute direct as opposed to merely circumstantial evidence of intent, in order for plaintiff to defeat summary judgment motion that is brought on ground of qualified immunity and in order for plaintiff to be entitled to discovery; overruling Siegert v. Gilley, 895 F.2d 797, and Martin v. D.C. Metropolitan Police Dept., 812 F.2d 1425. 42 U.S.C.A. § 1983.
 

stephenk

Senior Member
"The risk that a coerced confession is unreliable, coupled with the profound impact that it has upon the jury, requires a reviewing court to exercise extreme caution before determining that the confession's admission was harmless. Pp. 295-296."

The facts in that case are not even applicable to the facts presented by the poster. A guy in prison is given a chance for protection from other inmates if he tells the truth about killing his stepdaughter.

There is no evidence of coercion in the original post plus there is sufficient circumstantial evidence in support of the poster's confession. In the Supreme Court case there was no other evidence other than the confessions.
 
D

DRN

Guest
Again, the statement as originally stated was (paraphrasing) "Circumstantial evidence does not carry the same weight as direct evidence."

NOT

Circumstantial evidence is not enough to convict/defeat etc

The facts in the case law need not match or be similar to the poster's situation to answer the proper question.

Even your response shows the court holds direct evidence as different from circumstantial evidence:

" . . . specific, discernible facts or offers of proof that constitute direct as opposed to merely circumstantial evidence of intent . . . "

"merely circumstantial" clearly indcates a Court sees a difference between direct and circumstantial evidence.

That is the position I originally took. You changed my statement and then proceeded to disprove the amended statement while I continue to address the original statement.
 
H

hmmbrdzz

Guest
Pro arms -- it's a good way to take care of those intense trolls who have nerve and matter.

I wonder where nicklauz went.


hmmbrdzz
 

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